The Night Mail

[Happy Hippo]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

What would you class as a vanity project and how does its cost compare with the social security budget?

 

Parliamentarians' expenses were mentioned a few posts back; again, I'd ask, what proportion of tax revenue are they? It's easy to latch onto abuses at that level, because they involve sums of money we can relate to, but they pale into insignificance when one looks at the entirety of government spending.  

 

But of course engendering dissatisfaction with government spending and mistrust of both elected politicians and civil servants can be deliberate policy: part of the "Trumpian playbook".

Two aircraft carriers for starters.

 

However, the days of capital ships being able to operate on their own with impunity has long gone. 

 

A carrier cannot operate independently, but must operate as a group of ships which provide essential mutual support and logistics.

 

The Royal Navy  in it's current form, simply cannot meet the requirements to properly support one carrier at sea, so the carriers can only be deployed operationally as part of a multi national fleet.

 

This is vanity.  Boasting to the world that we have two aircraft carriers.

 

Hey! Look what we've got (but we need you to help us run them).

 

 

The dig at parlimentary expenses was made, because in the past I've tried to claim such generous allowances back from HMRC via my accountant, only to be told, it couldn't be done.  I suggested that Nyda ask her accountant, and she received a similar response.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Winslow Boy]

The problem is that no matter how much money is spent on what ever scheme, project, social enterprise etc there will a) be a demand for more and b) be wasted. You only have to look at the money people spend themselves to realise that.

 

How many of us have bought a 'choo-choo' - other expensive items are available, only to realise that we paid too much for it and it isn't really in the right time frame or place. This was gone on ever since money was invented. The only difference now is that it's way to easy to make public criticism of it. As was said above that gives certain persons ammunition to twist to there advantage. 

[Happy Hippo]

Just now, Winslow Boy said:

How many of us have bought a 'choo-choo' - other expensive items are available, only to realise that we paid too much for it and it isn't really in the right time frame or place. 

Everyone who is not of a GWR/BR(W) persuasion!

[Winslow Boy]

1 minute ago, Happy Hippo said:

Everyone who is not of a GWR/BR(W) persuasion!

I was thinking more along the lines of that hippo table to be honest.

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Hey! Look what we've got (but we need you to help us run them).

 

But were they planned as a coherent part of a European Navy? It's obvious for many years that a country with an economy of the size of the UK's can no longer maintain a military of any independent standing.

 

Or are they just tokenism to absorb a sufficient proportion of GDP to fend off a US-instigated Russian invasion?

[Happy Hippo]

14 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

But were they planned as a coherent part of a European Navy? It's obvious for many years that a country with an economy of the size of the UK's can no longer maintain a military of any independent standing.

 

Or are they just tokenism to absorb a sufficient proportion of GDP to fend off a US-instigated Russian invasion?

We have an economy that would support a well proportioned defence force on the premise of Defence of the Realm, but not a mobile fighting force that can deploy anywhere in the world. 

 

Our various Governments have failed to realise this.

 

 

[Tony_S]

I have just about finished laying track for a non-scenic part of my garage layout. There has been quite a lot of pink foam stuff carving. I think the leaf blower will be deployed first before the vacuum cleaner. 
Tony

[rockershovel]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

But were they planned as a coherent part of a European Navy? It's obvious for many years that a country with an economy of the size of the UK's can no longer maintain a military of any independent standing.

 

Or are they just tokenism to absorb a sufficient proportion of GDP to fend off a US-instigated Russian invasion?

 

But the British military have "previous" here. One of the reasons the causes of World War One are even now a matter of dispute, is that the Army Command had involved itself far beyond its remit in the defence of France. The French, remember, had been swiftly and unequivocally defeated in 1870. 

 

 

[Mike Bellamy]

4 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

However, the days of capital ships being able to operate on their own with impunity has long gone. 

A carrier cannot operate independently, but must operate as a group of ships which provide essential mutual support and logistics.

 

HMS Vengeance has just returned to Faslane after 201 days at sea - in fact 201 days under the sea if news reports are to be believed - said to be the second longest underwater deployment of a nuclear submarine - presumably with no support or logistics as that could / would give away their position. Not the sort of job I could do !

.

[PhilJ W]

45 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

But the British military have "previous" here. One of the reasons the causes of World War One are even now a matter of dispute, is that the Army Command had involved itself far beyond its remit in the defence of France. The French, remember, had been swiftly and unequivocally defeated in 1870. 

The British army's remit in 1914 was to defend Belgium not France, a treaty obligation. During the Great War not one French soldier set foot in Belgium. When Belgium was overrun except for a small corner around Ypres the British just carried on fighting the Germans whose main aim was invading France. Almost all of the British troops were stationed on the French/Belgian border until they were called upon to stand in when a large part of the French army mutinied.

[SM42]

Another shelf built and painted in the airing cupboard and more blood sacrificed to the god of work.  

 

Going well today so far. 

 

Just got to get dinner on now. 

 

Andy

[J. S. Bach]

6 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Two aircraft carriers for starters.

Something that I was thinking for quite a while but was very hesitant to say anything.

[jamie92208]

8 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

My father told me of a similar incident in Portsmouth.

 

There was a minor fracas between a  gang of troublesome youths, and some Matelots.

 

The police merely cordoned off the street and allowed the incident to carry on.

 

When asked about what the police were going to do about this disgraceful behaviour, the Sgt replied that once the RN had finished sorting out the problem, his constables would clear up the mess in the street.

That happened on another occasion.  A certain most wanted murderer,namely Donald Nielso, the Black Panther,kidnapped two officers at gunpoint and made them drive him several miles.  Th car eventually stopped and the officers tackled Nielso during which the shotgun went off.  The three of them tumbled out of the car outside a chip shop where a group of miners wearing boots were queuing.  The saw the fight and thought that it was their job to fight with Nottinghamshire's finest,  not some little twerp from Yorkshire. in.  Mr Nielson was remarkably subdued when he was booked in.   

 

Later the next more the two officers were taken to see the Chief to be congratulated.  The staff officer tried to reprimand them for their appearance.  Their replies have not been made public. 

 

Jamie

[rockershovel]

3 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

The British army's remit in 1914 was to defend Belgium not France, a treaty obligation. During the Great War not one French soldier set foot in Belgium. When Belgium was overrun except for a small corner around Ypres the British just carried on fighting the Germans whose main aim was invading France. Almost all of the British troops were stationed on the French/Belgian border until they were called upon to stand in when a large part of the French army mutinied.

I recommend you to read Barbara Tuchman's quite excellent "The Guns Of August" - quite the best study of this period - and particularly, the role of Sir Henry Wilson, a notable Francophile and member of the Imperial General Staff. 

 

Lord Kitchener also realised from the very outset that regardless of the notional Treaty obligations of the British government, the German plan was most unlikely to conform to them and called for "an army of a million men, for a war lasting three years"

 

If the British had intended to defend Belgian neutrality, they must surely have occupied positions on the Belgian - German border, not left the tiny Belgian army to be over-run.

 

The British Army was placed in the path of the right wing of the Schlieffen Plan. This was hardly a secret, having been the main tenet of German military thinking for almost forty years. 

 

French revanchism led that nation to focus upon the Loraine area, leading to a plan fundamentally mismatched to the German strategy and depending upon the British to hold the German right wing and prevent an enveloping movement in front of Paris. 

 

 

[Compound2632]

Confirmation of the superiority of the Great Western (if such were required, in some quarters) - ballasted with gold nuggets:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/20/englands-largest-gold-nugget-found-in-shropshire-with-faulty-metal-detector  

Quote

The nugget was found on a site near the village of Much Wenlock believed to have been an old track with railway lines running through, containing stone possibly distributed from Wales – a country known to be rich in gold.

[Happy Hippo]

43 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Confirmation of the superiority of the Great Western (if such were required, in some quarters) - ballasted with gold nuggets:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/20/englands-largest-gold-nugget-found-in-shropshire-with-faulty-metal-detector  

The line from Wellington to Craven Arms via Much Wenlock was very much a rural backwater and any through freight traffic was very sparse. Ballast was sourced more locally so would probably have come from the Criggon Quarry.

 

More likely is the nugget being my Aunty Hester's missing tooth cap, which she lost back in 1925 whilst on a picnic in Much Wenlock.  This went disastrously wrong when an assault on what she thought was a fruit scone, turned out to be a rock cake.

[SM42]

All day I've been wondering what I've forgot to do. 

I've just remembered what it is. 

😕

 

Re attach the beading round the window 

 

Can't be bothered now. 

 

It'll have to wait till Friday morning now.  

 

Andy

[DenysW]

12 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

More likely is the nugget being my Aunty Hester's missing tooth cap

Equally likely is that histories of Much Wenlock, correctly known as origin of the modern Olympics revival, are wrong in stating that laurel wreaths were presented to the victors, and this this was an early gold medal/souvenir.

[New Haven Neil]

Bit of a Casanova day - I *&^%$£ everything I touched.

 

Ends.

[iL Dottore]

10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

But of course engendering dissatisfaction with government spending and mistrust of both elected politicians and civil servants can be deliberate policy: part of the "Trumpian playbook".

Not necessarily. 

Scepticism about how tax money is wisely and efficiently definitively predates the current bunch of political bogeymen.

 

Back in the early 60s my maternal grandfather (a former Durham Miner - so as about working class as you can get), was very sceptical about the council, what they got up to, and how they spent the rates. And his view wasn’t unusual.

 

He passed on some very sage advice : “appreciate what the government does for you, but never rely on it. Because what the politicians deign to give you today, they can just as easily take away tomorrow”

[Northmoor]

11 hours ago, polybear said:

 

HS2.....

 

Have an in-depth read of the HS2 thread and see if you still think it's a vanity project.  If it is one - it certainly didn't start out as one - it only turned into one because politicians couldn't understand building a large piece of infrastructure for a as boring a reason as essential capacity.  I don't recall too many politicians turning up to open the widened Southern stretch of the M1.

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

This went disastrously wrong when an assault on what she thought was a fruit scone, turned out to be a rock cake.

Phew! They knew how to live in those days!

[Dave Hunt]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Confirmation of the superiority of the Great Western (if such were required, in some quarters) - ballasted with gold nuggets:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/20/englands-largest-gold-nugget-found-in-shropshire-with-faulty-metal-detector  

The nugget was found on a site near the village of Much Wenlock believed to have been an old track with railway lines running through, containing stone possibly distributed from Wales – a country known to be rich in gold.

 

And to think that I've walked along that stretch of line several times........

 

Bu**er

 

Dave

[Happy Hippo]

3 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

And to think that I've walked along that stretch of line several times........

 

Bu**er

 

Dave

If you missed a huge chunk of golden hippo tooth, then it's no wonder you needed a back seater to help you navigate the skies🤣.

 

Did you and Jill enjoy your cwooze?

[J. S. Bach]

Night Owl from the Piedmont.