The Night Mail

[bbishop]

Over 50 years ago I worked over a Christmas in the laboratories of the Whitbread brewery in Chiswell Street.  And the lab was probably built in the nineteenth century - linoleum, wooden benches and the rest.  One of the jobs was to test the volume of carbon dioxide in a bottle of beer.  This was done using a Martin Machine, balancing the level of mercury in open apparatus.  Of course there were spillages, with globules on the floor and in the sinks.  I knew mercury was a poison, so was very careful and was grateful I was only there for three weeks.

[PhilJ W]

24 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Apart from the miraculous “impervious to anything” car door, has anyone noticed how often “flesh wounds” (for want of a better term) just make the hero wince a bit and then carry on. 
 

Take it from me, who has treated more than a few bullet holes in his time, anyone who takes a small calibre bullet in the leg, arm, shoulder (or humorously) buttocks will most definitely be cancelling that day’s appointments and if they take a large calibre bullet in one of those areas, assuming shock and/or blood loss doesn’t kill them, then they’ll not be having much on their social calendar for quite a while.

 

And as for “beserker rage” - even that is no match for heavy calibre bullets.

 

Mind you even the lovingly hand-crafted, personal, method of killing people with edged weapons is pretty effective - and in some can inflict even worse injuries than modern arms. There’s a series of videos on YouTube showing how terrible and effective these pre-gunpowder weapons can be; the video makers use pig carcasses as stand-ins for humans (roughly same height, weight and tissue & bone consistency/resilience). Believe me, once you’ve seen one of their videos on the battle axe or the broadsword, you’ll realise that “cleaved in twain” is not simply a Shakespearean turn of phrase…

 

Yes, edged weapons can be very effective. I recall reading a report about a Samurai warrior slicing an opponent in two with one slice of his sword cutting his opponent diagonally from the shoulder to the waist.

[polybear]

14 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Yes, edged weapons can be very effective. 

 

That's confirmed pretty much every week (and often more than once) just by watching the news to hear that yet another person has been stabbed and killed.

[Tony_S]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

even that is no match for heavy calibre bullets.

 

I saw some photos of Dad in his army uniform. Tank crew had sidearms. He said being small he couldn’t really hold a large calibre pistol properly and had, I think he said, some sort of .38 revolver. After a scary incident after getting out of an immobilised tank he acquired a Sten gun as an additional personal weapon. 
Also concerning how well protected car doors are, Dad said even inside an armoured vehicle in WW2 era, you could be under fire from machine guns that were not going to penetrate but it was really irritating as flakes of metal came off the interior and flew about. I wonder if modern vehicles have some sort of coating internally to prevent that. 

[AndyID]

Weather here is bonkers. Four inches of snow yesterday then it turned to rain. It was 47F this morning, then it droped to 37F in about 30 minutes and now it's snowing again.

 

Ten feet or more snow expected in the Sierra Nevadas.

[Hroth]

53 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

I saw some photos of Dad in his army uniform. Tank crew had sidearms. He said being small he couldn’t really hold a large calibre pistol properly and had, I think he said, some sort of .38 revolver. After a scary incident after getting out of an immobilised tank he acquired a Sten gun as an additional personal weapon. 
Also concerning how well protected car doors are, Dad said even inside an armoured vehicle in WW2 era, you could be under fire from machine guns that were not going to penetrate but it was really irritating as flakes of metal came off the interior and flew about. I wonder if modern vehicles have some sort of coating internally to prevent that. 

 

I think it's called spalling, the sharp flakes can produce quite serious cuts on unprotected skin. Its been a feature of armoured warfare since the first tanks were deployed in WW1.

 

[Winslow Boy]

24 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

I think it's called spalling, the sharp flakes can produce quite serious cuts on unprotected skin. Its been a feature of armoured warfare since the first tanks were deployed in WW1.

 

Bit of insulation sort that out.

[Northmoor]

13 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Ditto using the ubiquitous bullet proof car door for cover.  Some of the more specialised shotgun ammunition would probably take the door out of the frame.

Oh dear, where to start with TV/movie "reality":

• Explosions always generate a huge amount of flame but seemingly almost no shrapnel, smoke or dust;
• People close enough to get knocked off their feet by the explosion get up with just slightly grubby faces and even more remarkably, their hearing still perfect;
• Train crashes always result in fiery explosions even when it's obviously meant to be electric traction;
• People who steal forms of transport they have little or no experience of operating but within 30 seconds are able to escape and out-run similar vehicles driven by experts;
• Car chases which result in colliding with parked cars always fly into the air and land upside down;
• Diving into water to rescue people and are able to see completely clearly;
• Building fires where the hero takes a deep breath then runs into a room full of flame but no smoke, exits without their clothes even singed, coughs a little then professes to be alright;
• Shooters able to fire and hit someone 100 yards away, first shot, with a handgun;
• The hero (it's almost always a man) who flies or steers the out-of-control aircraft/ship practically has a nervous breakdown doing so and expends lots of time and mental effort shouting at people instead of aviating/piloting.  "Sully" is one of very few films where the representation of a skilled professional pilot is even vaguely realistic.
• Oh and not action-related but probably my biggest irritant: characters who announce they are going to leave a family home/workplace to go round the world and do so that day, no notice period and apparently very little planning.  And that person, much loved relative/friend/colleague of the other characters, is never mentioned again......

[Northmoor]

12 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

When my late friend Peter moved to Canada in 1971, he reported that if the police there wished to stop a car they simply put a bullet through the engine block....

One of the Merlin helicopter's roles is counter-narcotics in the Caribbean (frigate on WIGS duty).  I was told of (but unfortunately didn't get to see) a video where a Royal Marine sniper lying on the Merlin's floor stops a drug-runner's speedboat - and they are FAST - by putting two rounds through the outboard engines.  He was disappointed because he fired three shots and missed with one round.

[Northmoor]

5 hours ago, DaveF said:

When I was a Head of Science we once found mercury on a lab floor in the gaps between the wooden sections of the parquet floor.  It was during a formal Health and Safety Inspection by Inspectors from the local H&S offices.  The lead inspector, a lady, told us not to worry.  She said the lab was so draughty because of the old poorly fitting windows that there was no danger of a harmful concentration of mercury vapour in the room.  She also told us she was happy for us to eat our fish and chips in a lab as long as we used a physics lab.  She said there were far more dangerous things in other parts of the school buildings. 

Probably true of many schools; they're called "Teenagers".

[Northmoor]

3 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

And as for “beserker rage” - even that is no match for heavy calibre bullets.

 

There's a famous quote from, I think, a US Army Colonel that goes something like, "Anyone who thinks the pen is mightier than the sword, has clearly never encountered automatic weapons".

[Winslow Boy]

42 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Oh dear, where to start with TV/movie "reality":

• Explosions always generate a huge amount of flame but seemingly almost no shrapnel, smoke or dust;
• People close enough to get knocked off their feet by the explosion get up with just slightly grubby faces and even more remarkably, their hearing still perfect;
• Train crashes always result in fiery explosions even when it's obviously meant to be electric traction;
• People who steal forms of transport they have little or no experience of operating but within 30 seconds are able to escape and out-run similar vehicles driven by experts;
• Car chases which result in colliding with parked cars always fly into the air and land upside down;
• Diving into water to rescue people and are able to see completely clearly;
• Building fires where the hero takes a deep breath then runs into a room full of flame but no smoke, exits without their clothes even singed, coughs a little then professes to be alright;
• Shooters able to fire and hit someone 100 yards away, first shot, with a handgun;
• The hero (it's almost always a man) who flies or steers the out-of-control aircraft/ship practically has a nervous breakdown doing so and expends lots of time and mental effort shouting at people instead of aviating/piloting.  "Sully" is one of very few films where the representation of a skilled professional pilot is even vaguely realistic.
• Oh and not action-related but probably my biggest irritant: characters who announce they are going to leave a family home/workplace to go round the world and do so that day, no notice period and apparently very little planning.  And that person, much loved relative/friend/colleague of the other characters, is never mentioned again......

You've been watching Neighbours again haven't you.

[Happy Hippo]

2 hours ago, Tony_S said:

I saw some photos of Dad in his army uniform. Tank crew had sidearms. He said being small he couldn’t really hold a large calibre pistol properly and had, I think he said, some sort of .38 revolver. After a scary incident after getting out of an immobilised tank he acquired a Sten gun as an additional personal weapon. 
Also concerning how well protected car doors are, Dad said even inside an armoured vehicle in WW2 era, you could be under fire from machine guns that were not going to penetrate but it was really irritating as flakes of metal came off the interior and flew about. I wonder if modern vehicles have some sort of coating internally to prevent that. 

Scabbing is still an issue.  Even flakes of paint can become projectiles.

[AndyID]

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

One of the Merlin helicopter's roles is counter-narcotics in the Caribbean (frigate on WIGS duty).  I was told of (but unfortunately didn't get to see) a video where a Royal Marine sniper lying on the Merlin's floor stops a drug-runner's speedboat - and they are FAST - by putting two rounds through the outboard engines.  He was disappointed because he fired three shots and missed with one round.

 

Just the other day. The helicopter crew "disabled" the outboards. 😄

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coast-guard-smugglers-cocaine-seizure-largest-eastern-pacific-ocean/

[Winslow Boy]

7 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Scabbing is still an issue.  Even flakes of paint can become projectiles.

Do you think we should mention that to Andy or do you think he might already know.

[AndyID]

11 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Scabbing is still an issue.  Even flakes of paint can become projectiles.

 

There is some rather impressive video somewhere on the web about testing building materials' ability to resist 2 x 4 lumber launched during a tornado.

 

[SM42]

34 minutes ago, Winslow Boy said:

Do you think we should mention that to Andy or do you think he might already know.

 

Oh I know, I know. 

 

Been scraping at the door frame in the old airing cupboard. 

 

Felt like I'd been pebble dashed. 

 

All filling  of unwanted holes completed

 

Sanding and yes painting ( yay!)  will commence in the next 24 hours.

 

A sense of urgency was injected into proceedings earlier when Mrs SM42 announced we may have house guests just after Easter, thus the contents of the airing cupboard need to be back in there  rather than the guest bedroom. 

 

I wasn't expecting anyone till the end of April, so I need to get a wriggle on as we also have another trip to the motherland to fit in.

 

Andy

Edited March 1 by SM42

[petethemole]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

I think it's called spalling, the sharp flakes can produce quite serious cuts on unprotected skin. Its been a feature of armoured warfare since the first tanks were deployed in WW1.

 

British WW1 tank crews were issued with chain mail masks to protect against this. https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30013537

[skipepsi]

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

Probably true of many schools; they're called "Teenagers".

Asbestos and RAAC spring to mind.

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Oh and not action-related but probably my biggest irritant: characters who announce they are going to leave a family home/workplace to go round the world and do so that day, no notice period and apparently very little planning.  And that person, much loved relative/friend/colleague of the other characters, is never mentioned again......

 

Usually when it's a character or actor that is unpopular (or has done something wrong IRL).

 

Those of a certain age will remember Charlie "Chunk" Cunningham  in Happy Days who disappeared half way through an episode that was being recorded live in front of a studio audience!

 

Even the parents of the character then referred to their two children.

 

Actually known as the Chuck Cunningham Syndrome.

 

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChuckCunninghamSyndrome

[polybear]

4 hours ago, SM42 said:

 

Oh I know, I know. 

 

Been scraping at the door frame in the old airing cupboard. 

 

Felt like I'd been pebble dashed. 

 

All filling  of unwanted holes completed

 

Sanding and yes painting ( yay!)  will commence in the next 24 hours.

 

A sense of urgency was injected into proceedings earlier when Mrs SM42 announced we may have house guests just after Easter, thus the contents of the airing cupboard need to be back in there  rather than the guest bedroom. 

 

I wasn't expecting anyone till the end of April, so I need to get a wriggle on as we also have another trip to the motherland to fit in.

 

Andy

 

You're playin' at it.

The real fun start when you have an entire, 100 y.o. staircase to strip - many layers of paint**, never been rubbed down before.

** All Lead based

 

I know a Bear that still has nightmares about it afterwards....

 

6 hours ago, Northmoor said:

One of the Merlin helicopter's roles is counter-narcotics in the Caribbean (frigate on WIGS duty).  I was told of (but unfortunately didn't get to see) a video where a Royal Marine sniper lying on the Merlin's floor stops a drug-runner's speedboat - and they are FAST - by putting two rounds through the outboard engines.  He was disappointed because he fired three shots and missed with one round.

 

Should've used the Gimpy instead (General Purpose Machine Gun).  Would've been much more fun.

[TheQ]

The Italian tanks at the start of WW2 were all show, their armour was so thin in places that rifle fire would go through. Especially with the Boyes Rifle which had a 0.55 in bore and could penetrate nearly an inch of steel.

It's not surprising the Italians got a reputation for surrendering / running away.

Edited March 1 by TheQ

[Flying Fox 34F]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

 

 

Should've used the Gimpy instead (General Purpose Machine Gun).  Would've been much more fun.

This is the Movie Directors version of the event, followed by a huge explosion and yet all the Smugglers survive to be captured!!!!!

 

Paul

[Flying Fox 34F]

Happy St David’s day to all our Welsh contingent.  As for the rest, it’s the start of Spring or Autumn depending on which side of the Equator you happen to be.  
(Of course, if you are a Star Gazer, then you have to wait another 21 days.)

 

Back to watching the rain, wondering when I can partake in some strangling of wood!

 

Paul

[iL Dottore]

33 minutes ago, TheQ said:

The Italian tanks at the start of WW2 were all show, their armour was so thin in places that rifle fire would go through. Especially with the Boyes Rifle which had a 0.55 in bore and could penetrate nearly an inch of steel.

It's not surprising the Italians got a reputation for surrendering / running away.

That’s actually a myth (see link below), the average Italian soldier was no more a coward than his British counterpart. Being badly supplied, badly equipped and badly led (from the ascent of Mussolini in 1923 onwards being a good fascist was about the only criteria for becoming an officer that mattered) would make any army from any nation ineffective.

 

The Italians got a bad rap in WWII but many of the professional Italian Military regiments were certainly as good as any. The Bersaglieri, the Alpini or the Carabinieri were certainly no pushovers. And to sit quietly on the bottom of Alexandria harbour on a Maiale (manned torpedo) whilst the British chuck into the water anything explosive that they can get their hands on and then go on to sink two battleships and a tanker, well it takes some doing.

 

There’s an interesting academic paper (see: https://scholar.uwindsor.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1054&context=gljuh) that revisits the myths about the Italian military. One of the interesting points is how, post-war, the retired German Generals to hide their mistakes pushed the narrative that many of the failures in the East and in North Africa was due to the Italians - a narrative the US and the UK were happy to accept lock, stock and barrel.

For examples of incredible fortitude and bravery of the Italian armed forces, look no further than the Italian-Austro-Hungarian front in WWI. Although - due to poor political and senior military leadership - the Italians didn’t reach most of their military objectives, the courage and toughness of the Alpini was exemplary. The Alpini would do things like dismantle a field gun, strap the parts of the gun to individual Alpini, climb up to a suitably sized mountain ledge, reassemble the gun and fire off rounds at the Austrians, quickly dismantle the gun before the Austrians could zero-in on it, and rappel back down the mountain, bits of gun strapped to their backs.

 

My father, who after being forcibly conscripted at age 15 into the Wehrmacht (my grandfather was in the Italian Diplomatic Service and got stuck in Germany durin WWII), returned to Italy where he had to do his military service. Of this time he said the two divisions that stood head and shoulders above the rest were the Bersaglieri (who were all crack marksmen and had to run - not march - everywhere. Unsurprisingly, most recruits failed the physical for the Bersaglieri) and the Alpini (who my father claimed had barracks without staircases - the Alpini having to rappel in and out of their dormitories)