The Night Mail

[Happy Hippo]

10 hours ago, newbryford said:

To any TNM'ers that may be attending Sunday, you may only get sign language from me as my voice is a bit hoarse after advising on technical issues [*] all day.

 

 

[*] make of that what you will..............................

How many times can you say RTFM in a working day?

[Happy Hippo]

3 hours ago, Flying Fox 34F said:

Andy,

 

You need a strip of carpet to stand on or a doormat!  Concrete floors are bad on the feet.

 

Paul

Agreed, It makes so much difference.

 

I use strips of the clip together foam you get for putting down to let little children play on (if they fall over, it's a slightly softer fall).

 

 

My grandchildren no longer need them, so I acquired the foam before it went onto Faecesbook marketplace.

 

 

[iL Dottore]

21 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

I suspect that the cost of exhibiting is tiny compared to the cost of running laboratories and factories. 

Indeed. I was involved in a project where senior management signed off on the construction of a multimillion dollar production for a promising drug that had yet to go through all the necessary clinical trials and get regulatory approval.

 

A calculated risk, but had the drug failed at the last hurdle (as many do, despite extensive prior in vitro and in vivo lab research and early phase trials) the company would have spent £££££££ for nothing.

 

The people spouting off about "big bad pharma" don't tell you about things like this, do they?

[New Haven Neil]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

Now I don't see even the most well heeled model railway club forking out anything close to the cost of a stand at a medical exhibition, but surely it's not unreasonable to expect

> better lighting

> better sign posting of layouts (sorry a sheet of A4 paper with "stand A12" on it doesn't cut the mustard)

 

It would be nice to have the public walkways carpeted, but I suspect that the NEC would charge an arm and a leg for such a thing.

 

Seriously?  MR Clubs in Swizzerland must have very high subs costs of they can provide those!

[iL Dottore]

31 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said:

 

Seriously?  MR Clubs in Swizzerland must have very high subs costs of they can provide those!

Why so? Apart from venue carpet hire (one of the NEC bods told me the NEC charges by square meter for carpet), making a large sign on a pole costs little (I know, having done a large [1.5m x1m] sign for a dog club event) and our friends at Ikea can provide the gubbins for a decent lighting rig - again at a modest cost.

 

Of course, if you want a lighting rig like on Pink Floyd's Pulse tour, then - yes - it can get expensive.

[Hroth]

57 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

How many times can you say RTFM in a working day?

 

A selection of small placards with varied phrases printed on them as suitable answers to the most egregrious questions might be a good idea....

 

Make them stout enough, and they can also be useful in fending off the ensuing attack!

 

[jamie92208]

39 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said:

 

Seriously?  MR Clubs in Swizzerland must have very high subs costs of they can provide those!

The lighting is a problem.  I was told that the standard hall lighting at the NEC is at a level that allows safe construction and dismantling of stands.  Though the Warley show is big for the model railway world, it is minnow in terms of exhibitors that the NEC hosts. That's why decent layout lighting is so important. The Wakefield Clubs former venue at Thorne Park had better lighting because it was to the standard need for indoor sports events such as bowls.  However it's electrical distribution system was poor but gradually got upgraded over time. The club and the stadium cooperated over that. 

 

Jamie

[BoD]

4 hours ago, SM42 said:

….  whether a masseuse can be put on expenses.

I’m sure Noch will do one.

[Hroth]

3 minutes ago, BoD said:

I’m sure Noch will do one.

 

They probably do one already, in the Boss'n'Secretary series...

 

[Flying Fox 34F]

So WB is suggesting a Pannier Tax to help those with an Addiction.  I wonder, like many do when in power, if the money may get diverted for another cause?  I don’t know, a Shed perhaps.

 

The term, “Big Pharma”, seems to have appeared with a certain former American President, who likes golf and is named after a duck.  I recall he used it against all opponents, who were hoping for the party nomination and Madame Clinton in the actual election, as they were all had backing from the various companies of a pharmaceutical nature.

 

Paul

[iL Dottore]

The Darkside has triumphed.
 

All my 4mm GWR rolling stock will go the way of the dodo.

 

The planned large 4mm GWR layout "St Cuthberts" will be no longer be. It has been "HS2ed"

 

Instead - thanks to Warley - coming soon to a RMWeb page near you will be 

> 池田居酒屋 Imeda Izakaya (Japanese N working diorama)

> St Cuthberts (II) GWR Rural teminus in 3mm

 

Warley is definitely not good for me...

[Happy Hippo]

3 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

The lighting is a problem.  I was told that the standard hall lighting at the NEC is at a level that allows safe construction and dismantling of stands.  Though the Warley show is big for the model railway world, it is minnow in terms of exhibitors that the NEC hosts. That's why decent layout lighting is so important. The Wakefield Clubs former venue at Thorne Park had better lighting because it was to the standard need for indoor sports events such as bowls.  However it's electrical distribution system was poor but gradually got upgraded over time. The club and the stadium cooperated over that. 

 

Jamie

The lighting at the NEC is probably the same that was put in when originally constructed, and is probably not really fit for purpose in this day and age.  As you so rightly point out, sports halls which require decent light levels are far better suited to model railway exhibitions.

 

But I think there is a big difference between sitting in an arm chair and telling people how to do it and the reality of actually getting it done.

 

I've organised a number of shows, and depending on the level of support you receive from club members, and the level of communication you get from those invited to attend, will make your stress levels go up or down. (I strongly suspect Mike Bellamy would concur with this.)

 

In one particular instance, the then club exhibition manager decided to throw in the towel due to 'communication issues'.   I picked up the pieces with less than a month to go and found that the root cause were all the dubious email addresses and phone numbers he'd been using (or not as the case may be),  which didn't connect.  I then found out that the guy suffered from dyslexia and a lot of the numbers and email addresses had been 'reformatted' when he'd been taking down details.  No wonder they didn't work.

 

Back on to the lighting saga.

 

I decided a long time ago that illumination of a layout was the owners responsibility and not that of the exhibition organiser.  So if a layout required lighting, then the best way was to create your own system.  I built a complete Iain Rice style theatre type box for the scenic boards of the club N gauge layout.  Into the top section I wired in a series of LEDs which provided excellent illumination.  The centre section of this arch carried a large bolt on plate with the layout name fitted to it.  Very clear to read from a distance and it was above head height which was a big help.

 

Ironically, after I left the club, they stopped using this presentation box, so it went out to a couple of shows with no identification, and no lighting:  The club then wondered why they stopped getting invitations.

 

Personally, if you are going to exhibit a layout, then it needs all the layout information and lighting to be carried with it and not to rely on the show organiser to help you out.

 

Currently, Pantmawr North has provision for two or three lighting posts with spot lights attached and since we only attend small local events, a laminated name board at waist height has to suffice.  I suppose I could make another that fitted to one of the lighting poles, but it really depends on how we intend to progress with the model or whether to concentrate on my new scheme*.

 

In order to help viewers we do have some data sheets which attach to the front of the cassette table in order to help viewers with some of the more basic questions.

 

 

 

 

*I have just drafted out the beginnings of a 7 mm scale S Wales based layout in an urban setting, which should end up displayed in the full Iain Rice proscenium arch style.  When this sees the light of day is another story.  The problem with this sort of presentation in anything larger then 4 mm scale is the sheer amount of space such an arrangement takes up.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Happy Hippo

[DenysW]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

池田居酒屋 Imeda Izakaya (Japanese N working diorama)

Had you considered Japanese Z-scale? I understand it is absolutely, totally, pannier-free.

 

Also a paraphrased piece of wisdom from HH: beware the siren calls of a change in scale - unless your first-born has good value at the pawn-shop (other quasi-legal sources of income are also available).

[Mike Bellamy]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

The lighting at the NEC is probably the same that was put in when originally constructed, and is probably not really fit for purpose in this day and age.  

 

I've organised a number of shows, and depending on the level of support you receive from club members, and the level of communication you get from those invited to attend, will make your stress levels go up or down. (I strongly suspect Mike Bellamy would concur with this.)

 

Back on to the lighting saga.

 

Thanks for the mention. I agree with almost everything you say but I'm sure that the lighting in Hall 5 did get an upgrade as I remember when it was the sort of orange light given out by sodium (?) street lights but now they are a more natural yellow/white colour and whilst not daylight, they are better than before.

 

When we first started exhibiting at the Assembly Rooms in Derby 40 years ago, all of the layouts & traders down each side of the Great Hall were under the balcony with very few lights as it was designed as a performance venue not an exhibition hall. We had several mass production sessions building lighting stands - two 3ft or 4ft pieces of metal conduit, a square foot piece, joining piece and clamp to hold onto the layout or traders table, a long cable and two large spotlights on a T-piece at the top - all carried in two large boxes which were bl**dy heavy - but then I was 40 years younger and I certainly wouldn't be able to lift them now.

.

[jamie92208]

The first time we had traders all along one wall at Thornes Park in Wakefield we used the twin sockets in each of the three sections between the fire doors.  Lo and behold the juice started tripping out.  One source turned out to be Dick Buckley of Wakefield Model Railway centre.  He had a kettle under his stand.  Then we discovered that all three double sockets were on one spur, designed for having cleaning machines plugged in.  Then the council wanted to use it for election counts so got some money to upgrade the electrics.  With a bit of negotiation the new 32 amp sockets were strategically placed between the fire doors. The club bought the necessary stuff to make some portable distribution boards.  We even hired these out to other users of the hall.  We had two competent and we'll qualified sparkies in the club.  By some strange quirk of fate, the apprentice school at Ferrybridge power station always acquired two sets of certain documents.  The system worked. When a new policy mandated risk assessments I did one.  The hall manager asked if he could use it as a template for other hirers to follow. Just before I finished work my then employers hired the hall for a crime prevention conference and fair.  Surprise surprise they needed an electrical distribution system and someone to set it up and take it down.  Much to the annoyance of my then boss, I was plucked out to do two days 'duty elsewhere'. I enjoyed those two days and got paid for them. 

 

Jamie

 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by jamie92208

[New Haven Neil]

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

I decided a long time ago that illumination of a layout was the owners responsibility and not that of the exhibition organiser.  So if a layout required lighting, then the best way was to create your own system. 

 

My point exactly.  because....

 

1 hour ago, Mike Bellamy said:

when it was the sort of orange light given out by sodium (?) street lights

 

 

....shudders at memory of exhibiting at the Scottish Exhibition Centre in Glasgow years ago.  Twice.  And they turned the power for the sockets off the second the show closed so you couldn't do any repairs.

 

Sorry @iL Dottore but UK clubs simply do not have access to funds to provide things like carpets and custom lighting - nowhere near. No sirree, spoken as someone that used to be deeply involved in such things.

[Compound2632]

8 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Certainly Warley does seem to be along the lines of "every expense has been spared" in terms of the hall layout. When I think back to the exhibitions I've attended at medical conferences, the comparison could not be greater. Every stand, from patient groups to equipment manufacturers to pharma companies had their own purpose built stand - often raised, always carpeted, with seating areas for visitors; everything was well lit; the location of each stand was well signposted by hanging signs above each stand and the public areas were also carpeted.

 

I have to observe that this reflection will have started to form in ID's mind as he was sitting on one of the brown plastic / metal frame fold-up chairs provided, along with the wooden trestle tables, I presume by the Warley Club rather than the NEC, having eased his way in behind the Midland Railway Society stand through the 12 in gap between that stand and the adjacent British HO stand. The IRS stand, on the other side of the MRS stand, had been provided with no such easy access; their people had to thread themselves past the hordes of MRS volunteers to get in and out. 

 

As he was in the company of a member of the Warley Club, it seemed improper to enquire into his credentials as an MRS member.

 

Pleasure to meet &c.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Compound2632

[AndyID]

3 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

The Darkside has triumphed.
 

All my 4mm GWR rolling stock will go the way of the dodo.

 

The planned large 4mm GWR layout "St Cuthberts" will be no longer be. It has been "HS2ed"

 

Instead - thanks to Warley - coming soon to a RMWeb page near you will be 

> 池田居酒屋 Imeda Izakaya (Japanese N working diorama)

> St Cuthberts (II) GWR Rural teminus in 3mm

 

Warley is definitely not good for me...

 

Which 3mm will it be?

[iL Dottore]

I met quite a few RMWebbers this weekend and Joined some societies (hence the invitation to sit in one of the "special seats" whilst I filled out the paperwork)

 

Whilst I would love to think that the utterance of the the words "I'm iL Dottore" will immediately open doors and grant access to all areas, I'm still sane enough to realise my notoriety/infamy/fame (your choice)  

 

To rebut NHN's point about not having funds for a lighting rig: do they really? I saw a number of beautiful layouts with more than few thousand pounds of rolling stock on them without any lighting. Given that a reasonable lighting rig can be rigged up for about CHF 150 (so Swiss prices), one wonders why they don't invest in something to help showcase their layouts to their best.

 

One of the downsides of Warley is that I noted more than a few layouts with operators who didn't engage the public. Having (briefly) been a guest operator on Black Country Blues, I have some awareness of what can go pear shaped during an exhibition, but more than a few  stood around "fiddling in the fiddle yard" as "suddenly, nothing happened". Is this an unfair comment? Possibly, but big shows like Warley and Ally-Pally attract both non-railway modellers and railway modellers who couldn't give tuppence for prototypical fidelity or prototypical working - and layouts need to engage and entertain them. This doesn't always happen.

[iL Dottore]

15 minutes ago, AndyID said:

 

Which 3mm will it be?

I've really gone to the bad, Andy. It's 3mm finescale (or pseudo-3mm finescale to be hon st. For apart from having the track width correct for scale, I'm not really that bothered)

[Happy Hippo]

8 minutes ago, AndyID said:

 

Which 3mm will it be?

Hopefully the full Monty, with 14.2 mm gauge track. All scratch built locos and stock or from kits. 

 

On the other hand it might be the slight mix up and the man is actually opting for TT 120, rather than 3 mm.

 

Most of us of a certain age relate to the original TT as 3 mm to the foot, but it's now very much a specialist scale and gauge to work with.

 

I think that Flavio needs to clarify this, as eager minds need to know!

 

*Edit*  Just seen Flavioli's reply to Andy:  Excellent stuff and I look forward to a blow by blow account of the layout and stock building.

 

Personally, with the difference between N at 2.059 mm to the foot and TT 120  at 2.54 mm to the foot, being so small means I'd stick to N gauge. 

 

Certainly at those sizes I'd be buying rtr, and limiting my modelling skills merely to a bit of weathering and scenic work.

 

Taking Flavio's point about lighting rigs and some layouts not having them:  It's the owner's choice.  If they feel that dim and gloomy is what they want, then that's what they produce. There is nothing the show organiser can do to alter this mentality except not invite them back.

 

The same term, dim and gloomy, can also refer to the introverted, hide behind the fiddle yard mentality shown by some operators.  Again it is their decision, but as Dave Hunt can testify, Gordon and I were quite happy to hand off operation to a young, but enthusiastic, onlooker when we were at Llandrinio.  It gave us more time to talk to the viewers and answer various questions that were thrown at us.

 

If I were to be a grumpy version of my Avatar, I'd not only be grey  and short sighted, but extremely bad tempered with a short fuse, and would flick varying quantities of dung over the backscene at those whose questioning verged from stupid to downright infuriating.

 

 

[polybear]

8 hours ago, Tony_S said:

I suspect that the cost of exhibiting is tiny compared to the cost of running laboratories and factories. 

 

Absolutely.  But why miss out on an opportunity to bait iD?

 

7 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Rubbish!

 

Costs come out of company earnings and in the international scheme of things the NHS is small beer indeed.

 

To someone on an average UK income £17.2 billion may seem like a lot of money to spend on drugs (NHS spend 21/22) but internationally it really isn't. (The world wide Pharma industry revenue for 2022  totalled 1.48 trillion U.S. dollars!)

 

The NHS needs the pharma, diagnostics, materials and supplies industries more than the pharma, diagnostics, materials and supplies industries need the NHS.

 

And for those of you who think that the state should develop and produce drugs, let me say just one thing: HS2

(and many other government organised and run failures to boot!)

 

 

See?  Works every time.  Too easy.......

 

🤣.

[polybear]

5 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Hopefully the full Monty, with 14.2 mm gauge track. All scratch built locos and stock or from kits. 

 

 

 

The Stores Section of the 3mm Society is impressive - the Loco Kits Section alone runs to 47 pages....

[AndyID]

18 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

I've really gone to the bad, Andy. It's 3mm finescale (or pseudo-3mm finescale to be hon st. For apart from having the track width correct for scale, I'm not really that bothered)

 

Ah! The eternal struggle between scale versus gauge 😀

 

Well the track will look brilliant but making stuff that isn't distorted to run on it is extremely difficult. I like to call it "HOitis" 🤣

[iL Dottore]

5 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Absolutely.  But why miss out on an opportunity to bait iD?

 

 

See?  Works every time.  Too easy.......

 

🤣.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

 

One day Nemesis will come, perhaps with her brother Thanatos. Maybe not tomorrow, maybe not next month, but come she will.

 

Don't forget, Dear Bear, iD has the knowledge to keep you thoroughly alive whilst begging for the sweet release of death.