The Night Mail

[Dave Hunt]

12 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

I know what you mean, he got the wrong photo:

 

It should have been:

 

Quick girls!

 

Lets get a closer look at Andy in his Spyder!

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, it's an amphibian is it?

 

Dave

[Dave Hunt]

12 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

In the same vein:

 

Come on girls, that's the fabled muddy hollow!

 

 

 

 

 

 

About the demographic of your fan base HH........

 

Dave

[monkeysarefun]

3 hours ago, Tony_S said:

Anyone in outer London with the diesel version will have probably got rid of it now that the ULEZ is expanding out from the North Circular to the M25 (but not including the M25 itself) If it is one of the later petrol engines ones they will be Euro4 engines and meet the minimum criteria for ULEZ exemption. 
People from Hertfordshire popping into Enfield or Essex residents going to Romford for a bit of shopping will need to check their compliance. 
I suspect the rules will get stricter in cities. 

What?? You basically have to pay a penalty for not being able to afford a new car? I could not see that ever  happening here, no politician would ever want to risk being accused of that kind of discrimination.  When they opened up a toll road from the Southwest of the city a few years ago they were hit with claims of it discriminating against those in the outer suburbs who cant afford to live closer to town. As a result, you still have to pay the toll but you get a refund every 3 months from the government for the full amount (minus  tax).

Edited July 2, 2023 by monkeysarefun

[Northmoor]

3 hours ago, skipepsi said:

Not that one.. the X is the modified Mondeo.

Correct, the X-type uses a Mondeo floorpan.  The S-type is based on a Lincoln.

 

I owned one for six months and despite buying a dog - my own fault really - it was still the nicest driver's car I've ever owned.  It had a number of faults which I tolerated because it was so nice regardless.  £900 with an MOT, containing no advisories, drove it for five months when it failed the next MOT on corrosion in three places and advisories on two others.  Unless it had been parked in the sea after the previous MOT, that certificate was as bent as a nine-pound note.  I sold it as Spares or Repair for £300 and kept the private plates on a retention certificate, which have been valued at £500.  Even so, the money lost over six months is only what many people's cars depreciate by in a fortnight.

 

I would still happily get another S-type and would actually go for another 3.0 V6.  They have more performance than the 2.5 but use very little more fuel, while the 4.2 V8 is a rocketship, you can barely exploit it on the road and it's quite, um, thirsty.  S-types are the sort of cars a company director might have had as his last company car which he kept on retirement, so have been well-maintained and now do low mileages.  It's not hard to find a good 20y.o one with less than 100k miles for well under £4k.

 

XK8s are starting to look good value too......

Edited July 2, 2023 by Northmoor

[Dave Hunt]

Had a thoroughly enjoyable day at the Warley Club today and decided to join the club as an 'out of town' member, as did Crimson Rambler. Apart from joining in club activities one of the benefits is free entry to the annual Warley show, although I wasn't aware of that before joining. I also was able to let my Compound stretch its legs and haul a train for the first time in about twenty years and was given a half finished model of a Kirtley tariff brake van that a late friend had bequeathed to me. 

 

Dave 

[Happy Hippo]

10 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

About the demographic of your fan base HH........

 

Dave

Those are the really young ones

[Northmoor]

9 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

What?? You basically have to pay a penalty for not being able to afford a new car? I could not see that ever  happening here, no politician would ever want to risk being accused of that discrimination.  When they opened up a toll road from the Southwest of the city a few years ago they were hit with claims of it discriminating against those in the outer suburbs who cant afford to live closer to town. As a result, you still have to pay the toll but you get a refund every 3 months from the government for the full amount.

No, this is the myth being put out by the Mayor's opponents.  About 90% of vehicles already entering the zone don't incur a charge.  The stories being put out that the poorest are being forced to trade up to expensive new cars are a load of hollyhocks.  My 20 year old diesel Freelander pays the ULEZ charge, my wife's 14 year old petrol Focus doesn't and it's worth about £2k if someone wants it.   

[jamie92208]

6 hours ago, Tony_S said:

I don’t display the instantaneous consumption option on my car. Too scary. All the autoroute cruising last month certainly improved the average mpg figures. My car isn’t very good on the urban cycle consumption figures. Aditi’s Fiesta (1.4 16v engine) doesn’t seem to make much difference hat you do.  To be honest we haven’t driven the Fiesta for a few hundred miles at about 80mph which seemed to suit the Evoque nicely. On previous French holidays we have spent ages in toll booth queues but that wasn’t a problem this time. Very few queues (not really holiday season, weekday) but despite all the internet warnings about how the Evoque was the worst car ever for toll tags not working it was fine. 

I'm glad that the magic gizmo worked at the péages.  We wouldn't be without ours. It makes thi gs much easier if I'm in Th RH drive Volvo.  We just have the one gizmo and swap it berween the two cars. 

 

Jamie

[polybear]

1 hour ago, monkeysarefun said:

What?? You basically have to pay a penalty for not being able to afford a new car? I could not see that ever  happening here, no politician would ever want to risk being accused of that kind of discrimination.  When they opened up a toll road from the Southwest of the city a few years ago they were hit with claims of it discriminating against those in the outer suburbs who cant afford to live closer to town. As a result, you still have to pay the toll but you get a refund every 3 months from the government for the full amount (minus  tax).

 

College Buddy lives within the "new" ULEZ Zone that is soon to become active - every time he takes his car off the driveway it'll cost him almost 24 Aussie Bucks very soon.  He's 80 so buying another car is pretty pointless as the existing one (a Diesel) whilst old is in pretty good nick and is soon to become rather undesirable on the s/h market.

 

 

 

[Tony_S]

Just now, jamie92208 said:

I'm glad that the magic gizmo worked at the péages.  We wouldn't be without ours. It makes thi gs much easier if I'm in Th RH drive Volvo.  We just have the one gizmo and swap it berween the two cars. 

 

Jamie

I know it doesn’t actually save me any money but we have spent so much time sitting in queues at peages in the past I was willing to give it a go. I didn’t go through any of the 30kph ones but would have if there had been a queue. Once I heard it beep,at the first peage after Calais I was happy. At the first one I stopped and nothing happened so,I moved forward a bit and it beeped. After that, moving at a slow walking pace, beep and the barrier went up. We had a leaflet that one new autoroute is going over to numberplate recognition but will still work with the tags. I don’t think it was anywhere we are going. When we went to Austria in 2018 we paid the motorway toll and used the number plate recognition method rather than the sticker we had before. 
Tony

[PhilJ W]

Not all of the current Bentley line-up is bad. I rather like the Bentley Continental which although using a lot of bits from the VAG parts bin is still a unique design. At least its not a monstrosity like the Rolls Royce.

[J. S. Bach]

Night Owl from the Piedmont.

[Darlington_Shed]

I mentioned recently that I had invested in the Railway Modeller digital archive (I suppose I'm allowed to mention that around here). And what a wonderful education in the recent history of railway modelling it has been - recent as in the last 70 years, that is.

 

Interesting to see - in detail - many of the classic layouts that are often mentioned on RMWeb. Since my current interest involves very small layouts I've been particularly taken by the Art of Compromise and The Piano Line, among others. After much lobbying after Ms Shed Jr went off to university I was eventually given permission to use the smallest bedroom as a modelling room but Covid put a stop to that - daughter came home, never returned to uni but commandeered the room as a study centre and eventually, as she is now fully employed, as a work-from-home office. So my current plan is a "railway in a box" that will fit into one of the larger Really Useful Boxes and can be quickly set up on the dining table.

 

Still, 100x30cm-ish is quite a useful size in N Gauge and slow progress is being made.

 

One of the curiosities I've become mildly obsessed with is email and website usage - I'm now up to the year 2006 and those technologies were still very rare in the modelling world, although fax machines were still going strong. I was particularly amused by one dealer's advert that said, "Web site available; call for details" 🤣

[polybear]

4 hours ago, Darlington_Shed said:

I mentioned recently that I had invested in the Railway Modeller digital archive (I suppose I'm allowed to mention that around here). And what a wonderful education in the recent history of railway modelling it has been - recent as in the last 70 years, that is.

 

Interesting to see - in detail - many of the classic layouts that are often mentioned on RMWeb. Since my current interest involves very small layouts I've been particularly taken by the Art of Compromise and The Piano Line, among others. After much lobbying after Ms Shed Jr went off to university I was eventually given permission to use the smallest bedroom as a modelling room but Covid put a stop to that - daughter came home, never returned to uni but commandeered the room as a study centre and eventually, as she is now fully employed, as a work-from-home office. So my current plan is a "railway in a box" that will fit into one of the larger Really Useful Boxes and can be quickly set up on the dining table.

 

Still, 100x30cm-ish is quite a useful size in N Gauge and slow progress is being made.

 

One of the curiosities I've become mildly obsessed with is email and website usage - I'm now up to the year 2006 and those technologies were still very rare in the modelling world, although fax machines were still going strong. I was particularly amused by one dealer's advert that said, "Web site available; call for details" 🤣

 

Bear is rather confused by this post - in particular the following bits:

 

"Given permission"

"Commandeered"

"Work from home office"

 

Can any fellow TNM'ers explain please?

 

Yours,

Bear

(sitting in Bear Towers).

 

[iL Dottore]

4 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Bear is rather confused by this post - in particular the following bits:

 

"Given permission"

"Commandeered"

"Work from home office"

 

Can any fellow TNM'ers explain please?

 

Yours,

Bear

(sitting in Bear Towers).

 

It's Grown Ups' stuff PB.

[jamie92208]

8 hours ago, Tony_S said:

I know it doesn’t actually save me any money but we have spent so much time sitting in queues at peages in the past I was willing to give it a go. I didn’t go through any of the 30kph ones but would have if there had been a queue. Once I heard it beep,at the first peage after Calais I was happy. At the first one I stopped and nothing happened so,I moved forward a bit and it beeped. After that, moving at a slow walking pace, beep and the barrier went up. We had a leaflet that one new autoroute is going over to numberplate recognition but will still work with the tags. I don’t think it was anywhere we are going. When we went to Austria in 2018 we paid the motorway toll and used the number plate recognition method rather than the sticker we had before. 
Tony

Ours worked for a tunnel toll in Antwerp,  for us it's really useful in my car as Beth has great difficulty reaching the pay slot due to shoulder problems. I will have to watch out for the numberplate system. 

 

Jamie

[iL Dottore]

5 hours ago, Darlington_Shed said:

One of the curiosities I've become mildly obsessed with is email and website usage - I'm now up to the year 2006 and those technologies were still very rare in the modelling world, although fax machines were still going strong. I was particularly amused by one dealer's advert that said, "Web site available; call for details" 🤣

I rejoined the hobby around about 1997 or so and over the years I've noted that a huge number of British Railway modellers are very very conservative indeed, regarding any technology from later than, say 1970, as deeply suspicious and fundamentally alien (okay, I do exaggerate slightly).

 

Apart from the MERG boys and some other outliers, it does seem that many British Railway Modellers are slow to adopt new things. One would've thought that by now, DCC would have become ubiquitous (and from what I understand DCC is already an antiquated computer technology), but analogue refuses to be pensioned off. Instead of the "white hot heat of cutting edge innovative technology" it's more like "the lukewarm tea of familiarity".

 

I wonder what's driving this innate conservatism; age? cost of "new technology? reluctance to reboot existing layouts? I really don't know and I'm not sure if there even is a pattern: for every old geezer continuing to use analogue and who has a control panel with enough switches and dials to run the space shuttle, there's another old geezer doing cutting edge things with laptops, Wi-Fi and programmable computer chips with his/her railway model railway.

 

Me? I'm lazy and if I can get a machine to do it for me (and minimal "under the layout" crawling about) then I'm all for it.

[Happy Hippo]

I recently invested in a new battery powered jig saw to replace my original  mains operated version which must be about 35 years old by now.

 

The improvements over the old machine are much needed with variable speed, a variable rate pendulum action, and a quick change blade system.

 

It's first job was to create the cantilever beam for the DMU hutch for Pantmawr North.

 

Although I could not present the finished job as a masterpiece of woodworking, it is fairly neat and functional.

 

The old adage of practice makes perfect certainly applies and more use will see better results over time.

 

Today's task is to rebate the legs and lower cross member so that they fit together with cross lap joints.  These will stiffen up the legs as just bolting them face to face would allow then to twist and form a parallelogram as opposed to a rigid structure. 

 

It would be much easier just to make  permanent structure, but, I want it to flat pack for ease of storage.

 

Next job is to make another half slotting fixture for the router as the current one I have is too small to cope with the 75 mm x 25 mm timber I'm using for this project.

 

This is where the copious amount of scrap timber I keep around the place comes in handy when it comes to making fixtures and jigs.

 

Another device I find invaluable is a blade/cutter gauge which accurately allows you to set the depth of cut when using a table saw or a router.

5 hours ago, Darlington_Shed said:

I was eventually given permission to use the smallest bedroom as a modelling room but Covid put a stop to that - daughter came home, never returned to uni but commandeered the room as a study centre and eventually, as she is now fully employed, as a work-from-home office. So my current plan is a "railway in a box" that will fit into one of the larger Really Useful Boxes and can be quickly set up on the dining table.

 This is a fine example of what happens when you fail to capitalise on a golden opportunity.

 

Within 24 hours of such authority being granted, the room should have been stripped of all household nick knacks and converted into  a mini Darlington Works so that easy conversion back to domestic habitation was no longer possible.  

 

The only reason I am getting my new enclosed woodworking zone behind the garage, is the mistaken belief by Domestos* that  such an enterprise will stop the driveway being covered in copious amounts of sawdust, and will gentrify the area which is currently rather unsavoury.

 

The real reason is to create more space for Hot Train Action in the garage. The extra space created allegedly could be used to house the car, but who puts their car in a garage?

 

* Domestic Operations Supervisor

 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Happy Hippo

[Happy Hippo]

4 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

I rejoined the hobby around about 1997 or so and over the years I've noted that a huge number of British Railway modellers are very very conservative indeed, regarding any technology from later than, say 1970, as deeply suspicious and fundamentally alien (okay, I do exaggerate slightly).

 

Apart from the MERG boys and some other outliers, it does seem that many British Railway Modellers are slow to adopt new things. One would've thought that by now, DCC would have become ubiquitous (and from what I understand DCC is already an antiquated computer technology), but analogue refuses to be pensioned off. Instead of the "white hot heat of cutting edge innovative technology" it's more like "the lukewarm tea of familiarity".

 

I wonder what's driving this innate conservatism; age? cost of "new technology? reluctance to reboot existing layouts? I really don't know and I'm not sure if there even is a pattern: for every old geezer continuing to use analogue and who has a control panel with enough switches and dials to run the space shuttle, there's another old geezer doing cutting edge things with laptops, Wi-Fi and programmable computer chips with his/her railway model railway.

 

Me? I'm lazy and if I can get a machine to do it for me (and minimal "under the layout" crawling about) then I'm all for it.

Purely on the grounds of cost.

 

It would be interesting for someone like Jamie, to put a rough cost on equipping his 7 mm fleet to go fully DCC sound.

 

My  7 mm Hymek's DCC sound decoder and speakers etc cost over £200.  and although I can bear the brunt of such 'investment' because I opted to go DCC sound from the outset when I started in 7 mm scale, but the conversion, even to a simple DCC non sound system, for an established model railway is astronomical in terms of hobby expenditure.

 

Does a simple shunting plank operated on the one engine in steam principle really benefit from an all singing all dancing DCC system when you only have the one loco, no signals and about four turnouts which are operated by hand.

 

£50 for a Gaugemaster hand held controller and a wallwart power supply: and £10 for all the wiring and microswitches to operate the crossing nose polarity.

 

Add that to your loco wagons and track and you are off.

 

Cost of a simple NCE Powercab £225!  Plus then you have to get all the motors and decoders for the pointwork.  No doubt opting for a frog juicer system (personally they are an expensive and un neccessary luxury).

 

Your simple and 'cheap' model railway no longer is.

 

Going outside, one can marvel at the radio control systems and gizmos such as 'slo mo' that seems to have infected the garden railway world, but I have never been a real fan of this and am totally old school 'burnt finger brigade'.  

 

 

[SM42]

It's not just the modeller dawdling in DCC. 

There are still new models coming out with limited digital sound function and that old "can't turn the tail lamp off" functionality

 

Add the can't fit it in anywhere  / how do I get this thing apart without breaking it  factor and it becomes a physical as well as a financial challenge. 

 

After all, who wants to attack their new loco ( or even their older stock)  with a saw, or other cutting implement, to make room for electronics that could have been catered for at the factory. 

 

As to digital points operation, that's a personal choice. Old school is still an option. 

 

Andy

Edited July 3, 2023 by SM42

[John Isherwood]

54 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Purely on the grounds of cost.

 

It would be interesting for someone like Jamie, to put a rough cost on equipping his 7 mm fleet to go fully DCC sound.

 

My  7 mm Hymek's DCC sound decoder and speakers etc cost over £200.  and although I can bear the brunt of such 'investment' because I opted to go DCC sound from the outset when I started in 7 mm scale, but the conversion, even to a simple DCC non sound system, for an established model railway is astronomical in terms of hobby expenditure.

 

Does a simple shunting plank operated on the one engine in steam principle really benefit from an all singing all dancing DCC system when you only have the one loco, no signals and about four turnouts which are operated by hand.

 

£50 for a Gaugemaster hand held controller and a wallwart power supply: and £10 for all the wiring and microswitches to operate the crossing nose polarity.

 

Add that to your loco wagons and track and you are off.

 

Cost of a simple NCE Powercab £225!  Plus then you have to get all the motors and decoders for the pointwork.  No doubt opting for a frog juicer system (personally they are an expensive and un neccessary luxury).

 

Your simple and 'cheap' model railway no longer is.

 

Going outside, one can marvel at the radio control systems and gizmos such as 'slo mo' that seems to have infected the garden railway world, but I have never been a real fan of this and am totally old school 'burnt finger brigade'.  

 

 

 

They certainly knew what they were doing when they introduced DCC! It's a self-perpetuating money tree for the manufacturers!

 

Not for me - though I still have to buy all the electronic bits and the speaker(s) that'll never be used!

 

CJI.

[Oldddudders]

Just a word to Flavio about overweight Bentleys. Ettore Bugatti, who had a Chapman-esque penchant for speed through light weight, called Bentley - with whom he was competing regularly, not least at Le Mans - the manufacturer of the World's fastest lorries..... 

 

As far as ULEZ-type restrictions are concerned, more than one French city has required, in recent years, drivers to hold a certificate of emissions before they could enter. The cert could be obtained online, I think, but I didn't need one for my limited travels, and haven't heard much more about it in recent years. 

 

I have been using DCC for 25 years, although stopped investing in sound a decade ago. Nevertheless, today, in honour of Jamie's fine video of 4014, my DRGW 4-6-6-4, complete with cheap and nasty factory-fitted MRC sound system, will do a lap of the layout with a dozen 40' cars. 

[Erichill16]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

I rejoined the hobby around about 1997 or so and over the years I've noted that a huge number of British Railway modellers are very very conservative indeed, regarding any technology from later than, say 1970, as deeply suspicious and fundamentally alien (okay, I do exaggerate slightly).

 

Apart from the MERG boys and some other outliers, it does seem that many British Railway Modellers are slow to adopt new things. One would've thought that by now, DCC would have become ubiquitous (and from what I understand DCC is already an antiquated computer technology), but analogue refuses to be pensioned off. Instead of the "white hot heat of cutting edge innovative technology" it's more like "the lukewarm tea of familiarity".

 

I wonder what's driving this innate conservatism; age? cost of "new technology? reluctance to reboot existing layouts? I really don't know and I'm not sure if there even is a pattern: for every old geezer continuing to use analogue and who has a control panel with enough switches and dials to run the space shuttle, there's another old geezer doing cutting edge things with laptops, Wi-Fi and programmable computer chips with his/her railway model railway.

 

Me? I'm lazy and if I can get a machine to do it for me (and minimal "under the layout" crawling about) then I'm all for it.

I think one of the issues with DCC is the ‘black magic’ element and not wanting to let the magic smoke escape.

Pre DCC ,if something went wrong it was usually obvious to see and repair and most modellers like to fix things themselves but with DCC you can’t fix a chip.

Anyway back to the grind.

[Northmoor]

58 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Does a simple shunting plank operated on the one engine in steam principle really benefit from an all singing all dancing DCC system when you only have the one loco, no signals and about four turnouts which are operated by hand.

In a nutshell.  Yet it's amazing how many small exhibition layouts use DCC despite perhaps exploiting only 10% of the capability.

 

As you've said, upgrading an existing "fleet" to DCC would be an astonomical cost for many collections.  Big layouts don't automatically equal complexity, "benefitting" from the functions of DCC; look at Tony Wright's Little Bytham with four tracks and trains stopping and starting, but simply(-ish) operation of the four tracks.  Its goods yard can already be shunted while the other three tracks have trains passing.

 

If digital hasn't been taken up my many more modellers it's not because they are conservative, it's because to them, it is a solution to a problem they don't have.

 

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

Apart from the MERG boys and some other outliers, it does seem that many British Railway Modellers are slow to adopt new things.

God save us from railway modelling becoming yet another pastime, where we judge each other by how many of the latest things we have.

 

[iL Dottore]

6 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

In a nutshell.  Yet it's amazing how many small exhibition layouts use DCC despite perhaps exploiting only 10% of the capability.

 

As you've said, upgrading an existing "fleet" to DCC would be an astonomical cost for many collections.  Big layouts don't automatically equal complexity, "benefitting" from the functions of DCC; look at Tony Wright's Little Bytham with four tracks and trains stopping and starting, but simply(-ish) operation of the four tracks.  Its goods yard can already be shunted while the other three tracks have trains passing.

 

If digital hasn't been taken up my many more modellers it's not because they are conservative, it's because to them, it is a solution to a problem they don't have.

 

God save us from railway modelling becoming yet another pastime, where we judge each other by how many of the latest things we have.

 

I didn't say that! I was just ruminating on why British Railway Modellers tend to be so conservative.

 

Cost, no problems requiring technological solutions and so on are all reasons for a conservative approach to modelling - an approach that is neither right nor wrong, it just "is"