The Night Mail

[Happy Hippo]

17 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

But it's tiny..

 

Jamie

I also wondered about the long term durability of one winner which had mdf doors and window frames.

 

MDF being notorious for it's ability to absorb water and it's not so pleasant dust which has carcinogenic properties.

 

43 minutes ago, SM42 said:

Interesting article fron thr Grauniad has popped up on the front page of a popular internet search engine.

 

The basic outline is that striving for perfection in our hobbies ruins them. 

We should enjoy the process and not be concerned with failure or shortcomings. 

It is supposed to be fun, not work.

 

Now I don't know about the rest of you, but I like to get to a reasonable standard in any hobby pursuit otherwise I just find it overwhelmingly frustrating. 

 

I can take the initial frustration of trying to get to that reasonable standard but beyond that I am happy to be average. 

I do find being average annoying at times though and yearn occasionally for fluked  perfection. 

 

Andy

I feel your pain, hence the struggle  I am having with the point rodding.

 

In the past I've discarded a couple of model railways, because they weren't up to what I felt was an acceptable standard.  It was the perfectionist coming out of me by the bucket load.

 

In reality, I don't think I'm ever going to be as good as I would like, and am now biting the bullet and trying to get on rather that procrastinating or constantly remaking things because I can make a better job of it or there is a better way to do it.

 

Yes, it's certainly nowhere near perfect, and I know that there are lots of little bits missing, detectors in the point rodding and a complete dearth of lamps, mentioning but two on the list.  But it does give me a little pleasure and I should be more grateful that I have the time, space(ish) and the finances to be able to indulge in a hobby that is more permanent, than the more temporary cake, whisky and rugby tickets.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Happy Hippo

[Northmoor]

11 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

Those last two lines are very disgusting!

Speaking of disgusting lines, Mrs Northmoor and I went to see "I'm Sorry, I Haven't a Clue" this week.  All the "cast" were on top form.  Unfortunately, the scorer, Samantha was unavoidably detained and missed the whole show, for reasons I can't repeat to the delicate ears of readers on this forum.

[jjb1970]

55 minutes ago, SM42 said:

Interesting article fron thr Grauniad has popped up on the front page of a popular internet search engine.

 

The basic outline is that striving for perfection in our hobbies ruins them. 

We should enjoy the process and not be concerned with failure or shortcomings. 

It is supposed to be fun, not work.

 

Now I don't know about the rest of you, but I like to get to a reasonable standard in any hobby pursuit otherwise I just find it overwhelmingly frustrating. 

 

I can take the initial frustration of trying to get to that reasonable standard but beyond that I am happy to be average. 

I do find being average annoying at times though and yearn occasionally for fluked  perfection. 

 

Andy

 

I think that is symptomatic of a wider issue in Britain.

 

At a certain point, if you try your best at something and give the best you can then that's all you can reasonably be expected to give. That does not preclude studying and working to improve what you are capable of, getting better at things. And ultimately if somebody gives their best and the end result is not very good, well nobody is going to get particularly excited or enthusiastic about mediocrity.

 

There's a culture among many that if you do your best, or enjoy something then don't worry about the results. My son played ice hockey in England, there were parents in the team who complained that their kids weren't picked to play in games, I understood the disappointment but ultimately the objective of the team was to win games and the coach put a lot of effort into helping the less proficient players in training.

 

Out here people can go to the opposite extreme, and it is all about results. That can be unhealthy, but pretending results don't matter doesn't really help anyone. 

[Oldddudders]

6 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

 Unfortunately, the scorer, Samantha was unavoidably detained and missed the whole show, for reasons I can't repeat to the delicate ears of readers on this forum.

Never a listener, but even my limited understanding may offer a reason why....

 

Since I left early last week, Sherry has been on her own, obviously. [Apart, that is, from a fraught last weekend in Crewe with her daughter and family, where the usual Friday night excess alcohol provided a conduit for some impressive nastiness, using all the words we don't use on here - not by Sherry, of course, who was mortified.] So this morning she sallied forth to her local Lidl to actually do some shopping - her first solo shop since October. On parking the car, she found a rough-sleeper sitting outside the shop, and after enquiring what he'd like, went inside and bought him chocolate croissants and a drink. She makes me so proud.

 

Yesterday a young lady dropped by, by appointment, and infused me with 100ml of Zoledronic acid. There is something slightly bizarre about sitting on your own sofa with a drip attached - as distinct from being the drip! Anyway, this is designed to reduce the risk of bone fractures due to my osteoporosis. Today I am exhorted to take paracetamol every 4 hours, ditto Sunday and Monday, to ward off side-effects. I took one dose w morning tea, but last year there were no side-effects worth mentioning, so I won't bash the meds unless I feel a great deal worse than now. 

 

As for not taking hobbies too seriously, I think that is an attitude from people who do lots of things, but never really get to grips with any of them. Over the dozen+ years I have been on RMweb, I have seen hamfisted modellers turn into proficient kit- and scratch-builders. Hard not to admire their tenacity - and the output they achieve.

[jjb1970]

I know it's a cliché, but there's a lot of truth in the old adage that things in life which are really worth doing don't come easy and need us to put in work and effort.

[jamie92208]

Yes, modelling standards.  It can be difficult.  I remember  wanting to throw everything  in the bin after my first visit to Pendon.  I have persevered in my own ham fisted and disorganised  way and am very happy with some results, less so with many others.  At the end of the day rule 1 applies and it's my train set.  However it's sometimes worthwhile to look back at what you can do now, almost without thinking, that you wouldn't  have attempted several years ago.  

 

Jamie

[bbishop]

I'm still getting a faint second line, so no church tomorrow - bu99eration.  I've stopped taking observations because they are all stupidly good (the heart is ticking away at less than 50 per minute, which is par for me) and the Benylin has defeated the cough.  Bill

[SM42]

I have given up trying to get to the standards of some  modelling I see around. 

It's not that I don't aspire to such, it's just that life is too short. 

Sure,  I'll try to get to get better and try to find ways to do things better but at some point the effort outweighs the rewards. 

 

I'm re- assessing some of my early wagon builds to see if I can drag them up to my current standard, but I'm not going to worry too much if they fall a little short . 

Simple upgrade to close enough will suffice 

 

I have have similar attitude on the  clay ground. 

I'm not going yo win any competitions and of course I would like to improve my scores but my 60 - 65% average is good enough for me.

I might get jnto the 70s occasionally, but if I hit something I'm happy and I'm enjoying myself. 

 

I believe part of  enjoying a hobby is accepting your limitations  

By definition you will get better with practice, but perfection risks  turnng it into a full time occupation rather than a pastime. 

 

Andy

 

PS tea and cake have arrived. Yay!

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by SM42
To as PS

[iL Dottore]

2 hours ago, SM42 said:

Interesting article fron thr Grauniad has popped up on the front page of a popular internet search engine.

 

The basic outline is that striving for perfection in our hobbies ruins them. 

We should enjoy the process and not be concerned with failure or shortcomings. 

It is supposed to be fun, not work.

 

Now I don't know about the rest of you, but I like to get to a reasonable standard in any hobby pursuit otherwise I just find it overwhelmingly frustrating. 

 

I can take the initial frustration of trying to get to that reasonable standard but beyond that I am happy to be average. 

I do find being average annoying at times though and yearn occasionally for fluked  perfection. 

 

Andy

For me, when making models, I am always striving for “better“. Not that I am seeking perfection, I am more than aware that perfection is, and always will be, beyond my grasp; but I refuse to settle for mediocre - whether modelling, cooking, playing guitar, etc…

 

I can always do better….

 

When I start a build, I have a picture in my mind of what I want to achieve, and the closer I can get to that picture, the happier I am. One thing I have learnt, over the years, is the benefit of leaving it (whatever “it” may be) and coming back to it the next day. By briefly disconnecting yourself from what you are working upon means that when you view it anew, you can be more objective in your evaluation of what you have done. This usually results in one of two outcomes: the first is when you look at it and conclude “it isn’t that bad“ (and you keep it); the second outcome is when you look at it, and conclude “well, that’s a pile of cr*p“ (and you bin it*).

 

More than once (as in the case of a signal box, I built for @Oldddudders)  have I astonished Mrs iD by throwing - what to her was a perfectly acceptable item - into the recycling bin. But I wasn’t happy with it…

 

Two quotes from Oscar Wilde seem appropriate here: 

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” 
― Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan

"I have the simplest of tastes. I am always satisfied with the best."
 

Off to the workshop, hey ho!…..

 

* actually, very little really gets thrown away, nearly everything is recycled – one way or the other!

Edited March 4, 2023 by iL Dottore

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

I know it's a cliché, but there's a lot of truth in the old adage that things in life which are really worth doing don't come easy and need us to put in work and effort.

Like cleaning the house🤣

[New Haven Neil]

I long ago accepted that in mudelling, I am very much the Railway Modeler's 'Average Modeller'.  I used to be in a club that had a couple of really top class modellers (and a lot of useless ones) and I aspired to 'be like them' (the good ones!), but it was a frustrated aspiration, due to perhaps a lack of confidence as much as lack of skill.  I enjoy what I produce, that's the main thing, and as I age and have found my dexterity decreasing (bloody diabetes) I mostly just settle for tweaked RTR stuff.  My 50% complete and crawling along slowly layout doesn't look too bad, although photos can be cruel.  A very kind person on here helped by making a superb building (my bete noir) which as weather warms will entice me to work on that dead corner.

[Winslow Boy]

Hmm I think I agree with our friend in the far East that there does seem to be something of a wet blanket in this country about accepting 'muddling along' rather than trying for better.

 

I notice it in restaurants were people don't say anything if a meal is poor. It's as if you should be grateful for what you get.

 

Sorry to drag the conversation into more an erudite  atmosphere.

[Northmoor]

4 minutes ago, Winslow Boy said:

Hmm I think I agree with our friend in the far East that there does seem to be something of a wet blanket in this country about accepting 'muddling along' rather than trying for better.

 

I notice it in restaurants were people don't say anything if a meal is poor. It's as if you should be grateful for what you get.

 

Sorry to drag the conversation into more an erudite  atmosphere.

I disagree, in Britain we absolutely love to complain.  Unfortunately we love to complain to everyone other than the person capable of doing anything about it.

 

I am guilty of not complaining in restaurants, but I don't go on line afterwards and leave bad reviews either.  I think the "being grateful" thing is generational; our parents/grandparents lived through many years of rationing and learned to appreciate little treats.  Now people take to social media to rant at the gross unfairness of Waitrose not stocking their favourite wholemeal bread flour, for three days!

[The Johnster]

 

It's the class system as well, pernicious all-pervasive evil little 'stard that it is.  Many of us peasants* feel subconciously that we have to be on our best, not to show oneself up as being ill-mannered or ungrateful among our 'betters', in restaurants and in similar situations, and you can't relax and enjoy anything if you are unwittingly being constantly goaded by your subconcious into being on your best.  As we used to say back in my hippie days, 'there is a policeman inside all of our heads.  HE MUST BE DESTROYED!!!'.  Having the temerity to complain in a restaurant takes more nerve than many of us who have been trying unsuccessfully to destroy our inner policemen for most of our lives can muster in an already unrelaxed and stressful situation.  You have to be British to understand this; Johnny Foreigner copes far better with it!

 

Re standards.  When I returned to the hobby in 2016, after an enforced break of some 35 years following a disastrous divorce (she ran off with my best mate, don't half miss him.  Then again, what a mate!), I intended to continue to the standards I had left behind, which were not scale modelling by any means, but an attempt to bring something a little better than 1980s standard trainset bacon home.  I stipulated a minimum 30" radius curvature (Streamline medium turnouts), scale couplings, and brake blocks in line with wheels (I am aware that these are wrong due to the 00 compromise, but having them in the right place, which to be fair to it 'traditional' RTR mostly got close enough for jazz) instead of  clawing uselessly at fresh air. 

 

I was very rapidly brought to reality with the realisation that, in my dotage, I no longer posessed the eyesight or hand-eye co-ordination to manage scale couplings without driving myself bonkers (all right, driving myself more bonkers that I already was).  This resulted in a soul-searching session, in which I accepted that I would have to use proprietary couplers.  As NEM tension locks were less awful than 80's RTR couplings, especially Hornby and Lima, and this was the line of least resistance, I took it. 

 

This meant that I could use setrack curves and turnouts in the fiddle yard, but I maintain my 30" minimum on the scenic part of the layout for appearances' sake.  In fact, after the layout was extended some 15 months ago and the fy simplified, I have rid myself of setrack turnouts.  I use DC control with dead frogs to simplify wiring, and my slow running is pretty good, even a Hornby W4.

 

The couplings caused some issues for a while, as such older stock that I still had had to be converted to NEM t/l standard with Parkside PA34 mounts and bodgery, and I was introduced to the concept that a standard coupling is desirable and RTR NEMs are anything but, and a standard bar height and hook profile has eluded the world of RTR, partly because NEM is designed as a standard for Kaydee buckeyes on US HO models.  But we got there in the end, and I can propel any stock in any formation anywhere on the layout with any locomotive.  Painted a dull grey, they merge into the background and I can mentally 'tune them out' of my conciousness, but some of the gaps between buffers bother me.

 

In other respects, current RTR is to a standard of scale, detail, and running that I could not ever hope to equal with kits or scratch building, even with top quality scratch.  I will still happily turn to kits and cut'n'shut bodgery for models I want that are not available from RTR sources, though, despite their failings and the further failings introduced by my limited ability to build them properly.  I try, but don't lose sleep if/when I fail, life's too short esepecially at my age!

 

 Were I starting now, I would specify Peco code 75 bullhead, much better appearance, but turnouts were not available when I laid Cwmdimbath so I stuck with Streamline and the wrong sleeper spacing. 

 

Compromises, then, with couplings and track, scale and gauge, and detail.  I am trying to eliminate older wagon toolings with moulded handbrake levers and toads with moulded handrails, but there are still some offenders.  But without these compromises I would not be able to have the locos and stock I want on the layout I want, and I will not accept locos, stock. or a layout other than one I want. 

 

 

*'Keep you doped with religion and sex and tv

so you think you're so clever and classless and free

but you still all look like f*cking peasants to me' (John Lennon, lower middle class art student).

[zarniwhoop]

2 hours ago, Northmoor said:

  Now people take to social media to rant at the gross unfairness of Waitrose not stocking their favourite wholemeal bread flour, for three days!

Waitrose do not stock my favourite wholemeal bread flour, nor many of my other favourite products. They used to stock Moo milk (longlife) but now all the longlife "milk" are oatley and similar. And Waitrose have always been poor at stocking reduced-sugar spreads for those of us with diabetes.

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

 

It's the class system as well, pernicious all-pervasive evil little 'stard that it is.  Many of us peasants* feel subconciously that we have to be on our best, not to show oneself up as being ill-mannered or ungrateful among our 'betters', in restaurants and in similar situations, and you can't relax and enjoy anything if you are unwittingly being constantly goaded by your subconcious into being on your best.  As we used to say back in my hippie days, 'there is a policeman inside all of our heads.  HE MUST BE DESTROYED!!!'.  Having the temerity to complain in a restaurant takes more nerve than many of us who have been trying unsuccessfully to destroy our inner policemen for most of our lives can muster in an already unrelaxed and stressful situation.  You have to be British to understand this; Johnny Foreigner copes far better with it!

 

Re standards.  When I returned to the hobby in 2016, after an enforced break of some 35 years following a disastrous divorce (she ran off with my best mate, don't half miss him.  Then again, what a mate!), I intended to continue to the standards I had left behind, which were not scale modelling by any means, but an attempt to bring something a little better than 1980s standard trainset bacon home.  I stipulated a minimum 30" radius curvature (Streamline medium turnouts), scale couplings, and brake blocks in line with wheels (I am aware that these are wrong due to the 00 compromise, but having them in the right place, which to be fair to it 'traditional' RTR mostly got close enough for jazz) instead of  clawing uselessly at fresh air. 

 

I was very rapidly brought to reality with the realisation that, in my dotage, I no longer posessed the eyesight or hand-eye co-ordination to manage scale couplings without driving myself bonkers (all right, driving myself more bonkers that I already was).  This resulted in a soul-searching session, in which I accepted that I would have to use proprietary couplers.  As NEM tension locks were less awful than 80's RTR couplings, especially Hornby and Lima, and this was the line of least resistance, I took it. 

 

This meant that I could use setrack curves and turnouts in the fiddle yard, but I maintain my 30" minimum on the scenic part of the layout for appearances' sake.  In fact, after the layout was extended some 15 months ago and the fy simplified, I have rid myself of setrack turnouts.  I use DC control with dead frogs to simplify wiring, and my slow running is pretty good, even a Hornby W4.

 

The couplings caused some issues for a while, as such older stock that I still had had to be converted to NEM t/l standard with Parkside PA34 mounts and bodgery, and I was introduced to the concept that a standard coupling is desirable and RTR NEMs are anything but, and a standard bar height and hook profile has eluded the world of RTR, partly because NEM is designed as a standard for Kaydee buckeyes on US HO models.  But we got there in the end, and I can propel any stock in any formation anywhere on the layout with any locomotive.  Painted a dull grey, they merge into the background and I can mentally 'tune them out' of my conciousness, but some of the gaps between buffers bother me.

 

In other respects, current RTR is to a standard of scale, detail, and running that I could not ever hope to equal with kits or scratch building, even with top quality scratch.  I will still happily turn to kits and cut'n'shut bodgery for models I want that are not available from RTR sources, though, despite their failings and the further failings introduced by my limited ability to build them properly.  I try, but don't lose sleep if/when I fail, life's too short esepecially at my age!

 

 Were I starting now, I would specify Peco code 75 bullhead, much better appearance, but turnouts were not available when I laid Cwmdimbath so I stuck with Streamline and the wrong sleeper spacing. 

 

Compromises, then, with couplings and track, scale and gauge, and detail.  I am trying to eliminate older wagon toolings with moulded handbrake levers and toads with moulded handrails, but there are still some offenders.  But without these compromises I would not be able to have the locos and stock I want on the layout I want, and I will not accept locos, stock. or a layout other than one I want. 

 

 

*'Keep you doped with religion and sex and tv

so you think you're so clever and classless and free

but you still all look like f*cking peasants to me' (John Lennon, lower middle class art student).

You've missed out lamps!

[Winslow Boy]

2 hours ago, Northmoor said:

I disagree, in Britain we absolutely love to complain.  Unfortunately we love to complain to everyone other than the person capable of doing anything about it.

 

I am guilty of not complaining in restaurants, but I don't go on line afterwards and leave bad reviews either.  I think the "being grateful" thing is generational; our parents/grandparents lived through many years of rationing and learned to appreciate little treats.  Now people take to social media to rant at the gross unfairness of Waitrose not stocking their favourite wholemeal bread flour, for three days!

 

I think that's because they don't have to actually face the person. 

 

There is I think almost a desire not to be different, not to stand out, do good but don't win. A bit like the English football we do well but get pipped to the post.

 

 

[The Johnster]

12 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

You've missed out lamps!

I was wondering when you'd spot the deliberate mistake, Your HappyHipponess…

 

May I re-assure you that all the policemen in all our heads are issued with the proper lamps; they can see everything in there…

 

THEY MUST BE DESTROYED!!!

Edited March 4, 2023 by The Johnster

[J. S. Bach]

16 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

How so?
What’s wrong with a constant supply of sweet, milky, tea?

I absolutely detest tea in any form; even the smell.

My parents, well Mother mainly ("It will stunt your growth!"; an old wives tale. She might have been thinking of the caffeine.) would not let me drink coffee or tea. Oddly the occasional soda was alright. I had my first coffee in the Navy and still like it Navy-style; that is, strong enough to float a battleship. As for tea, I will say no more.

[The Johnster]

2 hours ago, zarniwhoop said:

Waitrose do not stock my favourite wholemeal bread flour, nor many of my other favourite products. They used to stock Moo milk (longlife) but now all the longlife "milk" are oatley and similar. And Waitrose have always been poor at stocking reduced-sugar spreads for those of us with diabetes.

Home Bargains does Moo, The Squeeze buys it.

[AndyID]

Should ewe be interested, Idaho has a lot in common with Welsh Wales.

 

 

[AndyID]

Of course the Idaho's other great export is potatoes.

 

 

 

 

[Winslow Boy]

There's being patriotic and then there's.... I'll leave you to decide.

 

Well we are battened down here in England's Northwest all ready for the sudden drop in temperature and the unleashed hell of snowmagden, not.

 

What is it nowadays that produces this treatment of us as if we are all infants and have to told what to do.

 

Anyway off to fish the tennis rackets out of loft so that I can walk on the expected half inch that's 1.25 cm to our Canadian constituents by the way, of snow. 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Winslow Boy
They would have been in shed, but as I don't have one I've had to venture skywards

[J. S. Bach]

Night owl from the Piedmont.

[SM42]

35 minutes ago, Winslow Boy said:

There's being patriotic and then there's.... I'll leave you to decide.

 

Well we are battened down here in England's Northwest all ready for the sudden drop in temperature and the unleashed hell of snowmagden, not.

 

What is it nowadays that produces this treatment of us as if we are all infants and have to told what to do.

 

Anyway off to fish the tennis rackets out of loft so that I can walk on the expected half inch that's 1.25 cm to our Canadian constituents by the way, of snow. 

 

Buses won't  run ,  work places will shut down as everyone is snowed in and schools will be closed ( I bet they won't give the parents £60 each per day)

 

What will we do?

 

Andy