The Night Mail

[polybear]

47 minutes ago, Northroader said:

It amuses me at these 1940s enactments, the number of people who turn up dressed as officers to the number turning up as squaddies.

 

On the subject of Uniforms - and candles.....

One of the Bosses at work collects (collected?) American Civil War Stuff - including Uniforms.  Word has it that the collection was "a bit special" - with many items being almost/actually irreplaceable.  What happened?  His Missus lit some candles - and then bvggered off upstairs for a bath......

She was Ok, the house wasn't.  She's his ex. wife now, though I suspect this wasn't due (entirely) to his collection going up in smoke.....

[simontaylor484]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

Now this is serious stuff.

 

What is Mr Guest doing? Because certainly ain't Midland

 

 

Photo by Howard Thomas from gwr.org.uk

Caught Green handed

[jamie92208]

52 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

As some of you are aware,my wife’s family are Hindu. So we get to see swastika symbols on various religious items. Anyway Aditi’s sister got married to Ian whose family are Jewish (Polish/Russian/the border moved a bit origin).  The wedding invitations went out from the Indian side covered with a swastika pattern. There were comments but only witty, not shocked from the Jewish recipients.  

My father collected Ashanti Weights (made of Brass) when he worked in Ghana in the 30's and 40's.  Several of those had the swastika design on them.

 

Jamie

[jamie92208]

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Now this is serious stuff.

 

What is Mr Guest doing? Because certainly ain't Midland

 

 

Photo by Howard Thomas from gwr.org.uk

Ah guilty as charged your worships.   I was acting in an undercover role as a saboteur at the Great Western Society AGM at Portishead and had been asked to help operate Hungerford.   Most of the operators were afraid to work the fiddle yard.   What they didn't know was that i was a fifth columnist in their ranks and had an EM gauge model of turbomotive with me.  On the Sunday afternoon when the layout owner was coming round with the GWS tope brass, somehow a King was removed from the Ocean Liner Express and Turbomotive, made by Tony Bond was substituted.   Here is the evidence.

Along the front of the layout several retired enginemen from St Phillips Marsh were sitting on chairs.  Their jaws dropped in time to the running of the loco and someone asked, "What's That"  It's what Stanier would have built if he'd stayed as Swindon I replied.  There was a bit of a sense of humour failure on various parts but I thought it was great.   For some reason i was never asked to operate Hungerford again.

 

Jamie

 

PS, can you get me a better copy of the photo please. 

[Happy Hippo]

14 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

Ah guilty as charged your worships.   I was acting in an undercover role as a saboteur at the Great Western Society AGM at Portishead and had been asked to help operate Hungerford.   Most of the operators were afraid to work the fiddle yard.   What they didn't know was that i was a fifth columnist in their ranks and had an EM gauge model of turbomotive with me.  On the Sunday afternoon when the layout owner was coming round with the GWS tope brass, somehow a King was removed from the Ocean Liner Express and Turbomotive, made by Tony Bond was substituted.   Here is the evidence.

Along the front of the layout several retired enginemen from St Phillips Marsh were sitting on chairs.  Their jaws dropped in time to the running of the loco and someone asked, "What's That"  It's what Stanier would have built if he'd stayed as Swindon I replied.  There was a bit of a sense of humour failure on various parts but I thought it was great.   For some reason i was never asked to operate Hungerford again.

 

Jamie

 

PS, can you get me a better copy of the photo please. 

Aiding a fifth columnist?  That's treason!

[J. S. Bach]

14 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

Why not cover the concrete with mud and then have a sheltered muddy hollow.  It's sunny here but still cool. The hens are up breakfast has been taken and the morning S's completed.  Slightly differently today as a sample had to be collected.  That will be posted this morning.  I wonder how the postie who dleivers all the samples describes their job.

 

Jamie

Just think, someone has to open that package! What a nice job description.

[SM42]

Many years ago I was asked to provide a sample by the doctor and was given the kit.

 

"Two good spoonfuls" was the instruction. "in the phial, wrap the phial in the gauze and put that in the clear poly bag and bring it in to reception."

 

"Do not, repeat do not, fill the bag and drop it in. The receptionist doesn't like it when you do that."

 

How i was to obtain two good spoonfuls using the provided plastic spoon (similar to those you eat ice cream with,) was left to my imagination and ingenuity

 

Andy

[Sasquatch]

7 hours ago, Northmoor said:

HH for the same reason I believe there is no place for Axis powers uniforms at 1940s events, EXCEPT in your final example.  They are the only such troops who ever set foot on British soil during WW2, so having pitched battles between Allied/Axis troops in a British environment is nonsense.

Personally, I think anyone who chooses to dress in German WW2 uniform, but especially in SS uniform, has some pretty serious questions they need to ask themselves.  As for the bloke who was asked to leave one event for being dressed as Hermann Goering.........

 

I've never been to these events as they don't particularly interest me, but to make them more realistically represent WW2 in Britain, your tongue-in-cheek description of what should be seen should be extended to include:

• chronic late-running due to the trains of military equipment being given priority over scheduled passenger services;
• catering should be in "rationing portions";
• children under 10 being put on the train by their parents, being told they will be allowed to come back in about a year.
• tearful mothers and girlfriends whose loved ones haven't come home on the train with the rest of their regiment.

My grandfather was injured and captured in Tunisia in 1953, due to a mistake in communications via the Red Cross he was declared missing. He turned up at home several months later to be greeted by my grandmother who had come to accept that he was dead.  

 

Sorry but while I am very interested in historic military equipment and the history of warfare, 1940s weekends seem to be a barely-disguised excuse for a dressing up party, greatly over-glamourising the era and with all the many uncomfortable aspects conveniently airbrushed out.

Having been raised by my grandparents I have a total fascination of all things WWII.

As a result, I'm kind of basing the layout during the austerity years. You won't find trains of shermans on warwells though. Much more subtle details are needed to set the era such as darkened rooves on the coaches, female workers, and of course black express engines. There might be the odd Luftwaffe victim, and some taped up windows. 

 

I have found that as time has passed the reality of it has become much distorted. People didn't talk much about their experiences. For instance, Dennis the off-license manager that I worked at during the late eighties drank barley wine all day. Not every day but most. One cold morning the other assistant came in a bit late complaining of how cold it was.

"Don't be such a whimp Stu, when the pi55 freezes to the end of your John Thomas then you can call it cold".

Turns out Dennis was an infantry man involved in D-Day and walked to Germany, fighting all the way, he took some shrapnel somewhere.     A limp and PTSD!

 

My Gran was dating the captain of Brighton And Hove Albion when he got called up into the R.A.F. He was lost in Crete. One morning during the late 1970s he knocked on our door. My granddad was OK with it too, today's generation wouldn't understand that. I was there that day, and it still makes me tearful (doesn't help that they're just playing imagine by John Lennon on the radio. The world's never been the same without him has it.)

 

Regards Shaun

Edited October 10, 2022 by Sasquatch

[Sasquatch]

Anyone else have a hippo on their layout?

 

 

Regards Shaun

Edited October 10, 2022 by Sasquatch

[jamie92208]

6 hours ago, SM42 said:

Many years ago I was asked to provide a sample by the doctor and was given the kit.

 

"Two good spoonfuls" was the instruction. "in the phial, wrap the phial in the gauze and put that in the clear poly bag and bring it in to reception."

 

"Do not, repeat do not, fill the bag and drop it in. The receptionist doesn't like it when you do that."

 

How i was to obtain two good spoonfuls using the provided plastic spoon (similar to those you eat ice cream with,) was left to my imagination and ingenuity

 

Andy

ThecFrench kit is much better than what the UK provides. A paper thingy that sticks over the seat is provided that is then flushed down after use.  You will be pleased to hear that I am not going to provide a photographic guide. 

 

Like @Northmoor I have noticed the abundance of officers amongst reenactors.  Having spent 30 years in uniform I have no desire to wear one.  I do have my suspicions about their motivation.

 

Jamie

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

 

 

Like @Northmoor I have noticed the abundance of officers amongst reenactors.  Having spent 30 years in uniform I have no desire to wear one.  I do have my suspicions about their motivation.

They dress up as officers because they can't march, they can't read a map and get lost going to the lavatory.  Above all they don't like getting shouted at by SNCOs as it would reduce them to tears.

 

The only bit of military kit I retained and still use on a regular basis is my poncho and range coat which are still handy when out shooting.

 

I also have a green maggot (sleeping bag) sleeping mat and a camp bed in the attic.

 

Then there is the sword and riot baton hanging around somewhere.

 

 

[iL Dottore]

It’s interesting to note that it would appear that the people who are really getting upset about having swastikas on model aircraft (which is both correct and appropriate if you want to be an accurate scale modeller) are those people who never experienced what it was like in WWII. 

Certainly, in the 50s, 60s and 70s there was a lot of historical imagery about where the reversed swastika (which is what the Nazi emblem is – a reversed Indian swastika) was prominent and modellers were not reticent about making their models accurate by applying the correct insignia. And these were the days when there were plenty of people still around, who not only had gone through WWII, but also many who had encountered the full horror of the Nazi excesses firsthand. And yet there were very few, if any, indignant letters to the editor (the then equivalent of Twitter or Facebook) about the use of swastikas on models.

 

I actually think that by removing or airbrushing out Nazi insignia from models and photographs, you are actually sanitising the historical record. From an engineering, design and aesthetic perspective many of the most famous weapons of war the Germans had were actually very elegant and fascinating.
 

By removing the swastika, you are actually severing the link between a beautiful machine and the vile regime that used it. Take the JU 87 (Stuka) for example: by removing the Nazi insignia from the aircraft model/photo, an impressively designed and functional dive bomber used as an instrument of terror by the Luftwaffe becomes just an impressively designed and functional dive bomber.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by iL Dottore

[Welchester]

6 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

My Gran was dating the captain of Brighton And Hove Albion when he got called up into the R.A.F. He was lost in Crete.

 

My father should have gone to Crete, but had a severe adverse reaction to vaccinations, collapsed while inspecting the guard and spent a fortnight in hospital. After that the Army let him return to the railway. I suspect he carried some guilt, having avoided a bloodbath, but that generation didn't speak about such things.

[Happy Hippo]

11 minutes ago, Welchester said:

 

My father should have gone to Crete, but had a severe adverse reaction to vaccinations, collapsed while inspecting the guard and spent a fortnight in hospital. After that the Army let him return to the railway. I suspect he carried some guilt, having avoided a bloodbath, but that generation didn't speak about such things.

Working on the railway was very much a reserved occupation and it's continued operation was essential.  I presume your father voulunteered to join up, as he would have been exempt conscription.

[Happy Hippo]

I was looking to get advanced tickets for the Warley show this year as it's usually a couple of pounds cheaper.

 

It's a £2.00 saving over buying at the entrance on the day.

 

However, you save diddly squat as there is a £2.00 admin fee for the on line booking and purchase.

 

The only reason now to get an advance ticket is to avoid the queues, which are not much on  a Sunday.

 

The first train out of Wellington to B'ham Int doesn't get in until 0935 so I can't even get in early with an advance ticket.

[Welchester]

8 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Working on the railway was very much a reserved occupation and it's continued operation was essential.  I presume your father voulunteered to join up, as he would have been exempt conscription.

Yes, he volunteered in September 1939. He never bothered to collect his medals. 
 

I’ve never much cared for 1940s events. Once I had a conversation with a parishioner who had been to one at a heritage railway and really enjoyed it. ‘Those were good times,’ he said. ‘Better than today.’ No they bl00dy weren’t. 

[PhilJ W]

The swastika is banned in many European countries and that has caused problems for  some kit manufacturers. The box art shows aircraft for example with a black circle where the swastika should be or the aircraft posed so that the tail isn't visible. Understandably Germany is where the swastika is banned but is allowed under certain circumstances. The film about the last days of Hitler for example they were permitted on the grounds of historical accuracy as are old newsreels. However a few years ago (it may have changed since) you couldn't see 'Allo-Allo' on German TV because of Helga's swastika adorned corsets. 

[br2975]

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

 

The only bit of ( military ) kit I retained and still use on a regular basis is my poncho and range coat which are still handy when out shooting.

 

.

When I retired, I left with but three items of kit

.

My first original 'pith' helmet, not the later issue 'Custodian'

.

My 'staff' (ex Glamorgan Constabulary and rock solid)  - known to the unitiated as a truncheon

.

My 'horse blanket' - best bit of kit ever issued to a Bobby, better known as a cape, and which I made a point of wearing on my last ever shift, nights walking Cardiff city centre.

.

Oh, nearly forgot

A lifetime supply of clip on black ties, which sady, get used more frequently as your retirement continues.

[iL Dottore]

55 minutes ago, Welchester said:

...Once I had a conversation with a parishioner who had been to one at a heritage railway and really enjoyed it. ‘Those were good times,’ he said. ‘Better than today.’ No they bl00dy weren’t. 

I think it very much depended on circumstances. I'm currently reading two history books by James Holland - a modern (i.e. contemporary to to us) historian - The War in the West - A New History: Volume 1: Germany Ascendant 1939-1941 and Brothers in Arms: One Legendary Tank Regiment's Bloody War from D-Day to VE-Day. Unlike "traditional" historians, Holland mixes personal accounts with the operational, the tactical and the strategic. And it is clear from many personal accounts of their war experiences "their war" was as liberating and exhilarating as it was terrifying and tragic. Let's not forget, for most of the British population before WWII life was very much less than "adequate" (and on many levels). WWII allowed many to escape the straight jacket of their pre-war circumstances.

 

There's also another thing, with the Allied 'Steel Not Flesh' strategy (see here: https://lithub.com/on-the-steel-not-flesh-strategy-that-spared-millions-of-allies-in-wwii/) the bulk of the armed forces did not see combat (according to Wiki that was 1:4.3 ratio - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth-to-tail_ratio) For an "erk" in the RAF who spent his war refueling Lancasters, safe on a Norfolk airfield, whose love of his life was in the WAAF on the same station (or nearby) and who was honourably discharged after VE Day, it could have been a very good war indeed...

[BoD]

15 hours ago, Northmoor said:

As for the bloke who was asked to leave one event for being dressed as Hermann Goering.........

It wasn’t a model railway exhibition was it?

[PhilJ W]

16 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

I think it very much depended on circumstances. I'm currently reading two history books by James Holland - a modern (i.e. contemporary to to us) historian - The War in the West - A New History: Volume 1: Germany Ascendant 1939-1941 and Brothers in Arms: One Legendary Tank Regiment's Bloody War from D-Day to VE-Day. Unlike "traditional" historians, Holland mixes personal accounts with the operational, the tactical and the strategic. And it is clear from many personal accounts of their war experiences "their war" was as liberating and exhilarating as it was terrifying and tragic. Let's not forget, for most of the British population before WWII life was very much less than "adequate" (and on many levels). WWII allowed many to escape the straight jacket of their pre-war circumstances.

 

There's also another thing, with the Allied 'Steel Not Flesh' strategy (see here: https://lithub.com/on-the-steel-not-flesh-strategy-that-spared-millions-of-allies-in-wwii/) the bulk of the armed forces did not see combat (according to Wiki that was 1:4.3 ratio - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth-to-tail_ratio) For an "erk" in the RAF who spent his war refueling Lancasters, safe on a Norfolk airfield, whose love of his life was in the WAAF on the same station (or nearby) and who was honourably discharged after VE Day, it could have been a very good war indeed...

Reading my dads war record it appears that he was only in any real danger for about six weeks out of six years service. However as a Territorial he was 'called up' on the first of September 1939 and placed on the roof of the Odeon cinema in Romford with an Oerlikon gun, the biggest danger was an accident hauling the gun up a ladder to the roof. After he had transferred to a training camp in Yorkshire the railway alongside the cinema was strafed and the gun crew were injured, one seriously enough to be discharged. In 1942 he narrowly escaped being captured by the Japanese. The troopship he was on was heading for Singapore but was diverted just in time, the troopship in front sailed into Singapore and was captured by the Japanese. Later in the war he was at Imphal surrounded by Japanese forces but by then the Japanese had overstretched themselves and were starting to retreat with the XIVth army was in hot pursuit. It was at Imphal that my dad received shrapnel wound to his leg and was flown out to hospital in what was then Calcutta. He also had a couple of bouts of Malaria whilst out there.

[TheQ]

One granddad was very much in danger, Dunkirk, deserts of North Africa, Tobruk.. Pow... Italy Germany- the long march... Served from 1919 to 1953..

The other was in some Danger.. having previously been a service man, by ww2 he a was A lengthman then ganger on the track which is is never safe especially when your main area is a military depot.. and very much a target..

 

Me if I was interested I would go to a WW2 event as an RSM, boy could I have fun with that..

 

YOU!!!  get your haircut you horrible little man,

 

"Sir  was that a salute? .I thought you were swatting a fly...

 

 

 

[polybear]

4 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

I actually think that by removing or airbrushing out Nazi insignia from models and photographs, you are actually sanitising the historical record. From an engineering, design and aesthetic perspective many of the most famous weapons of war the Germans had were actually very elegant and fascinating.
 

By removing the swastika, you are actually severing the link between a beautiful machine and the vile regime that used it. Take the JU 87 (Stuka) for example: by removing the Nazi insignia from the aircraft model/photo, an impressively designed and functional dive bomber used as an instrument of terror by the Luftwaffe becomes just an impressively designed and functional dive bomber.

 

I do wonder how long it'll be before Museums such as Duxford are targeted and forced to remove exhibits or cover/remove/paint out swastikas?

 

12 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Me if I was interested I would go to a WW2 event as an RSM, boy could I have fun with that..

 

YOU!!!  get your haircut you horrible little man,

 

"Sir  was that a salute? .I thought you were swatting a fly...

 

But can @TheQ do the RSM "Voice" with "The Volume"?  

[TheQ]

Oh yes, used it a couple of times yesterday...

 

STARBOARD!!!

 

 And 

 

 

" SLOW DOWN!!!! YOU'RE TOO FAST!!!" to a passing motorboat.. he did slowdown..

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by TheQ

[Northroader]

At primary school, one of our teachers had just been demobbed in 1945, he’d been a sergeant major who had fought all across North Africa and up Italy, and he ran the classroom like a parade ground. If you were the guilty party, he’d put his face up close to yours, eyes bulging, vein on his forehead throbbing, moustache bristling, and snarl: “you little gentleman, you”. We all thought he was great.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Northroader