More model ideas

[jjb1970]

There are several diesels which although done reasonably could be improved.

 

• Class 58 - the Heljan/EFE model isn't bad but Accurascale could easily do something better.
• Class 40 - the body of the Bachmann model is still very good but the bogies show their age and leave a lot of scope for improvement
• Classes 44/45/46 - I think the Heljan model a missed opportunity in not really moving things on beyond the old Bachmann model. The Bachmann model is still very good (overall I prefer it to the Heljan, though Heljan has some nice details) but Accurascale could take it up a notch or two
• Class 35 Hymek - Although the Heljan model captures the look of the Hymek very well and remains a very good model, it is a little basic in some areas and there is scope to make something better
• Class 33 - I am not quite sure why but the Heljan model has never really impressed me despite having a soft spot for the prototype, ditto classes 26 and 27

Any of the as yet unmodelled AC electrics would be great, and a Class 120 DMU would be fantastic. I would love a good model of the Fell, but it is such a niche type that I suspect that well was emptied by KR, at least for a long time. Ditto their Leader

 

For steam I think there's still enough scope for new tooling not yet done. for rolling stock, where to start? Accurate pre-grouping coaches would be nice, although I recognize the commercial logic behind generic pre-grouping coaches as per Hattons, Hornby and Rapido I just can't get enthused by that idea.

[Combe Martin]

15 hours ago, Islesy said:

You mean the 234 examples, over 22 diagrams and two different lengths, built between 1932 and 1952? That cover 3000 gallon tanks with ladder and central filler, or 3000 gallon tanks with ladder and end mounted ladder, or the 3000 gallon short tank with an off-centre ladder and platform, or the 3000 gallon twin tank with twin ladders? And that's without looking at the frame, ladder and tie assemblies.

And no, I'm not saying that 'we' will never get an accurate milk tanker, I'm saying that the subject requires an immense amount of in-depth research, and that commercial considerations will dictate what, if anything, gets produced accurately.

 

Best wishes,

Paul.

 

No, you misunderstand, I'm not suggesting at all that you do all or most of what you've quoted above (all the GWR versions) and certainly not the longer underframe version which were a small percentage. I was just wondering whether a 'toe in the water' minimalist approach of just doing the later GWR underframe (the one with the large brake lever at the right hand end) and then producing it with one Unigate and another with one Express Dairy tanker top could possibly be a viable commercial proposition ? 

 

If the decision is that more versions can be produced, then well I'm all for more.

 

The reasons for suggesting Unigate and Express Dairy tankers is that by the end of the 50s all the smaller tanker fleets had been merged into the big two, and mostly their tanker 'fittings' (straps, ladder positions etc) were different, so I'm trying to please both camps.

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Combe Martin

[Combe Martin]

Further to the above, and with the non availability of the David Geen metal (and needing considerable skill to produce) kit, currently my thoughts on a DIY 'more accurate but probably not spot on' milk tanker are a combination of a heavily modified Dapol underframe with a Hornby or Lima Tanker Top plus some etched brass fittings from Rumney Models.

 

For someone that needs a lot of tankers (me) I don't think it'll be a quick job.

[Fredo]

Hi, how about a GWR None RO Tank ('Rotank') milk flat wagon, there is one preserved at Didcot. Fred

[vanbasher]

My apologies if this has already been mentioned somewhere in here, but I would love to see some Accurascale loco hauled MK3A's.

I believe given how many years they have been around, multitudes of different liveries from Blue & Grey all the way to the final passenger operator still using them Chiltern Railways, that they could keep selling through various batches & eras for many years to come.

I think we can all agree given how amazing the already released MK2's are that an A/S MK3A would be stunning! 

[BVMR21]

The 0-6-0ST 14" Cylinder Andrew Barclays would be well worth looking at, alongside the Hunslet 48150s, 50550s, and Austerities... (Or just the Austerities and Jessie, cause from the tooling for Jessie in it's current guise you could make 3 or 4 locos), plus both ranges of locomotives would go well with the 16 ton minerals and other wagons Accurascale have produced...

[Islesy]

2 hours ago, Combe Martin said:

I was just wondering whether a 'toe in the water' minimalist approach of just doing the later GWR underframe (the one with the large brake lever at the right hand end) and then producing it with one Unigate and another with one Express Dairy tanker top could possibly be a viable commercial proposition ?

It wouldn't be, no.

[D860 VICTORIOUS]

7 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

There are several diesels which although done reasonably could be improved.

 

• Class 58 - the Heljan/EFE model isn't bad but Accurascale could easily do something better.
• Class 40 - the body of the Bachmann model is still very good but the bogies show their age and leave a lot of scope for improvement
• Classes 44/45/46 - I think the Heljan model a missed opportunity in not really moving things on beyond the old Bachmann model. The Bachmann model is still very good (overall I prefer it to the Heljan, though Heljan has some nice details) but Accurascale could take it up a notch or two
• Class 35 Hymek - Although the Heljan model captures the look of the Hymek very well and remains a very good model, it is a little basic in some areas and there is scope to make something better
• Class 33 - I am not quite sure why but the Heljan model has never really impressed me despite having a soft spot for the prototype, ditto classes 26 and 27

Any of the as yet unmodelled AC electrics would be great, and a Class 120 DMU would be fantastic. I would love a good model of the Fell, but it is such a niche type that I suspect that well was emptied by KR, at least for a long time. Ditto their Leader

 

For steam I think there's still enough scope for new tooling not yet done. for rolling stock, where to start? Accurate pre-grouping coaches would be nice, although I recognize the commercial logic behind generic pre-grouping coaches as per Hattons, Hornby and Rapido I just can't get enthused by that idea.

Would be interesting to know in what areas the Heljan Hymek is "a little basic" and what is the "scope to make something better"....?

[wombatofludham]

2 hours ago, vanbasher said:

My apologies if this has already been mentioned somewhere in here, but I would love to see some Accurascale loco hauled MK3A's.

I believe given how many years they have been around, multitudes of different liveries from Blue & Grey all the way to the final passenger operator still using them Chiltern Railways, that they could keep selling through various batches & eras for many years to come.

I think we can all agree given how amazing the already released MK2's are that an A/S MK3A would be stunning! 

The Oxford Mk3a wasn't too bad so long as you didn't want to dismantle it, although since Hornby absorbed the Oxford range they seem to have quietly dropped the range (unless the new tool HST Mk3s are the same as Oxford - does anyone know?) but whilst I would like a new range of Mk3s to the same standard as the Mk2b, my preference would be for the Mk2d to come ahead of a Mk3.  The current Mk2d is almost as old as me having been launched when I was 14 and given the Mk2c and Mk2d share some componentry it must be an odds on bet to be the next coach range to be announced.  Before anyone starts gum-flapping along the lines of "what about Bachmann's Mk2f and Hornby's offers" the value for money the Mk2b/c range offers will knock both into a cocked hat - plus vapour lovers no longer have to put up with the common tooling for the Maunsell/Collett coaches despite them looking sort-of the same.

I do wonder though if there is a longer term ambition to do an HST at which point the Mk3 might become an Accurascale project?  No doubt the cost of tooling up a complete Mk3 range for the HST might mean it is a longer term objective (whilst the TSO and FO share a common bodyshell, the TGS, and various catering vehicle shells, plus the detail differences for the power car shells over time, would make an Accurascale HST an expensive project) I have a feeling such an icon of BR, alongside Hornby's somewhat indifferent and patchy attitude to their model, could sustain a competing model and Accurascale haven't shied away from toe to toe competition.  It is probably the one remaining Hornby model which could sustain a competitor in my view.

[MJI]

34 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

The Oxford Mk3a wasn't too bad so long as you didn't want to dismantle it, although since Hornby absorbed the Oxford range they seem to have quietly dropped the range (unless the new tool HST Mk3s are the same as Oxford - does anyone know?) but whilst I would like a new range of Mk3s to the same standard as the Mk2b, my preference would be for the Mk2d to come ahead of a Mk3.  The current Mk2d is almost as old as me having been launched when I was 14 and given the Mk2c and Mk2d share some componentry it must be an odds on bet to be the next coach range to be announced.  Before anyone starts gum-flapping along the lines of "what about Bachmann's Mk2f and Hornby's offers" the value for money the Mk2b/c range offers will knock both into a cocked hat - plus vapour lovers no longer have to put up with the common tooling for the Maunsell/Collett coaches despite them looking sort-of the same.

I do wonder though if there is a longer term ambition to do an HST at which point the Mk3 might become an Accurascale project?  No doubt the cost of tooling up a complete Mk3 range for the HST might mean it is a longer term objective (whilst the TSO and FO share a common bodyshell, the TGS, and various catering vehicle shells, plus the detail differences for the power car shells over time, would make an Accurascale HST an expensive project) I have a feeling such an icon of BR, alongside Hornby's somewhat indifferent and patchy attitude to their model, could sustain a competing model and Accurascale haven't shied away from toe to toe competition.  It is probably the one remaining Hornby model which could sustain a competitor in my view.

A 2F is not a 2D and conversion is a lot of work.

 

No what abouts required

[wombatofludham]

Just now, MJI said:

A 2F is not a 2D and conversion is a lot of work.

 

No what abouts required

Completely agree.

Our more "kettleista" brethren think they are the same though yet get all pearl-clutchy when "generic" steam coaches are mentioned...

[MJI]

2 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

Completely agree.

Our more "kettleista" brethren think they are the same though yet get all pearl-clutchy when "generic" steam coaches are mentioned...

 

Generics, yuck, hate them.

 

And yes I am getting a bit annoyed over 5 plank wagons with the differences between.

 

LMS all wood

GWR 5.5

SR/LNER 5 plank

 

No I will not use a generic wagon.

 

They also became 3 BR lots as well.

[Dunsignalling]

3 minutes ago, MJI said:

 

Generics, yuck, hate them.

 

And yes I am getting a bit annoyed over 5 plank wagons with the differences between.

 

LMS all wood

GWR 5.5

SR/LNER 5 plank

 

No I will not use a generic wagon.

 

They also became 3 BR lots as well.

 

All available as straightforward plastic kits, and the LMS one recently r-t-r from Rapido.

 

[GMKAT7]

Good afternoon folks,

 

Not forgetting the old Airfix/GMR 5 plank open, which, with a new underframe (Parkside typically), can be made into a suitable representative of the SR built wagons supplied to the LMS and LNER during and post-WW2.

 

Early BR versions are similar and the wagons can either be incurred (as built) or fitted as modified by BR circa 1956 onwards.

 

Check out 31A's layout thread for inspiration or the D1666 thread in the kit-built section.

 

Only the wagon body is generic, until you start modelling.

 

Cheers, Nigel.

[Wickham Green too]

39 minutes ago, GMKAT7 said:

... Not forgetting the old Airfix/GMR 5 plank open, which, with a new underframe (Parkside typically), can be made into a suitable representative of the SR built wagons supplied to the LMS and LNER during and post-WW2. ...

... if you don't look at the corner plates. ( No, that's not rivet counting .......... they're nuts ! )

 

4 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

... plus vapour lovers no longer have to put up with the common tooling for the Maunsell/Collett coaches despite them looking sort-of the same. ...

I'm not sure what sort of rose blue/grey-tinted glasses you're wearing there !!?!

[GMKAT7]

Good afternoon Wickham Green too,

 

Using Larkin Acquired Wagons of BR vol 5 as my reference, the LMS diagram D1892, D2072 and D2094 opens all have the same/similar corner plates and fixings pattern as the Airfix 5 plank open.

 

Pages 60 and 62 of vol 5 show these diagrams - look pretty much alike to me. Same/similar arrangements for the planks too.

 

Pages 38 to 41 show the LNER equivalent diagram 178, 184 and 210 wagons with the same/similar corner plates and planks.

 

Good enough for 31A, so will do for me.

 

Cheers, Nigel.

[MJI]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

All available as straightforward plastic kits, and the LMS one recently r-t-r from Rapido.

 

 

GWR and not the Ratio one, needs LOT of work including scribing one plank and a new underframe.

Do Rapido do vac braked and steel underframe

 

4 minutes ago, GMKAT7 said:

Good afternoon Wickham Green too,

 

Using Larkin Acquired Wagons of BR vol 5 as my reference, the LMS diagram D1892, D2072 and D2094 opens all have the same/similar corner plates and fixings pattern as the Airfix 5 plank open.

 

Pages 60 and 62 of vol 5 show these diagrams - look pretty much alike to me. Same/similar arrangements for the planks too.

 

Pages 38 to 41 show the LNER equivalent diagram 178, 184 and 210 wagons with the same/similar corner plates and planks.

 

Good enough for 31A, so will do for me.

 

Cheers, Nigel.

I have been using pictures of late ones, which would have lasted to late 70s.

 

All have lots of detail diifferences.

[GMKAT7]

Good afternoon MJI,

 

Fully agree, once BR had kicked in with vacuum brake mods, hybar mods, changes to axleboxes, buffers, etc.

 

The Airfix underframe needs replacement, so once you have done that it follows on that the other underframe fittings can be swapped out as well.

 

All good fun for the modelling season 😃

 

Cheers, Nigel.

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, MJI said:

 

GWR and not the Ratio one, needs LOT of work including scribing one plank and a new underframe.

Do Rapido do vac braked and steel underframe

 

I have been using pictures of late ones, which would have lasted to late 70s.

 

All have lots of detail diifferences.

My route to a fitted LMS 5-plank is the old Airfix body on a Parkside PA16 underframe.

 

Buffer beams from Evergreen channel as the Parkside kits have them as part of the body.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Dunsignalling

[PieGuyRob]

7 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

The Oxford Mk3a wasn't too bad so long as you didn't want to dismantle it, although since Hornby absorbed the Oxford range they seem to have quietly dropped the range (unless the new tool HST Mk3s are the same as Oxford - does anyone know?) but whilst I would like a new range of Mk3s to the same standard as the Mk2b, my preference would be for the Mk2d to come ahead of a Mk3.  The current Mk2d is almost as old as me having been launched when I was 14 and given the Mk2c and Mk2d share some componentry it must be an odds on bet to be the next coach range to be announced.  Before anyone starts gum-flapping along the lines of "what about Bachmann's Mk2f and Hornby's offers" the value for money the Mk2b/c range offers will knock both into a cocked hat - plus vapour lovers no longer have to put up with the common tooling for the Maunsell/Collett coaches despite them looking sort-of the same.

I do wonder though if there is a longer term ambition to do an HST at which point the Mk3 might become an Accurascale project?  No doubt the cost of tooling up a complete Mk3 range for the HST might mean it is a longer term objective (whilst the TSO and FO share a common bodyshell, the TGS, and various catering vehicle shells, plus the detail differences for the power car shells over time, would make an Accurascale HST an expensive project) I have a feeling such an icon of BR, alongside Hornby's somewhat indifferent and patchy attitude to their model, could sustain a competing model and Accurascale haven't shied away from toe to toe competition.  It is probably the one remaining Hornby model which could sustain a competitor in my view.

To do the mk3 carriage accurately would involve one hell of an investment to do properly.

 

I am going to presume that a tampo printed orange square, will no longer suffice for the C.D.O. light? (Central Door Locking, which I'm going to presume people would like to light up?)

 

So three separate toolings,

TF/TS without CDO

TF/TS with CDO

TF/TS sliding door.

 

Tooling for TFD/TSD

 

Four toolings for TGS,

One without CDO,

One with CDO,

One with sliding doors,

TGF, not sure if it is outwardly different to the TGS.

 

Buffet cars...

TRSB

TRUK

TRFB

TRUB

The buffet car 40619, converted for the Master Cutler was different again.

The current Cross Country franchise buffet cars alone would need 4 toolings, as some were converted fro HST trailers and at least 1 is ex loco hauled, all were slam door then converted to sliding door.

 

The sleepers 4 toolings? 2 different types with and without CDO.

 

Three BUO's with and without CDO. 2 toolings.

 

The Chiltern  carriages used sliding plug doors, so another tooling.

 

Mk3a/b TSO/FO 2 toolings, with and without CDO.

 

The loco hauled buffet cars RFB and the other one. Some were converted from HST trailers other from loco hauled FO's, so two different roof arrangements. 

3 proper saloon windows

4 proper saloon windows,

Without CDO,

With CDO

Also some had half height windows by the buffet counter, whilst some had full height windows.

 

This list is by no means comprehensive, but, hopefully highlights that taking on an accurate mk3 carriage is by no means an easy task. It hopefully shows that a standard carriage is not as easy to do correctly, and, that the models we have had thus far barely scrape the surface of variants. If anyone could do the mk3 justice then it is Accurascale.

 

Mr Wombat, I am not having ago at you, I  fully agree with your comment. The mk3 is isn't an easy project to get right.

 

I wrote this in the pub, and don't have access to any of my books.😊

[Wickham Green too]

3 hours ago, GMKAT7 said:

...  LMS diagram D1892, D2072 and D2094 opens all have the same/similar corner plates and fixings pattern as the Airfix 5 plank open. ...

... with two, staggered, bolts per plank.

3 hours ago, GMKAT7 said:

... the LNER equivalent diagram 178, ...

... is derived from the Southern dia.1375 with only one bolt per plank in a noticeably narrower corner plate.

3 hours ago, GMKAT7 said:

... 184 ...

... is derived from the LMS designs  ( above )  with staggered bolts ..... though built at Ashford just to confuse the enemy even more.

3 hours ago, GMKAT7 said:

... and 210 wagons ...

... are derived from the pre-war dia.120 with two bolts per plank at the inner edge of the wide corner plate.

 

As always, Rule 1 applies and you can run whatever you want. 😊