woodenhead Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 12 minutes ago, PMP said: I'm not sure that’s quite right, if I might offer an alternative perspective. How Dave Jones sees himself .... How other people see him ..... And a good reason why we should not be going over all this again, as he loves attention just like this other one. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widnes Model Centre Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dixie Dean said: Perhaps it's finally time to press the Delete key on this whole unsavoury episode (including deleting this entire section of the forum). I personally hope I don't accidentally bump into him on my travels as I might be tempted to give him a "Kirkby" kiss! (don't ask). A "Kirkby Kiss" Dixie? Now there is a good idea. Don't mind if I join you for old times sake? Quite APT, I would add. Edited June 3, 2020 by Widnes Model Centre 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 3, 2020 So did KR Models buy the King and Shark directly from the factory? Indeed looking at this did DJM actually own anything? I still hope somewhere the Class 17 may yet emerge from the ashes of this sorry mess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 50 minutes ago, John M Upton said: I still hope somewhere the Class 17 may yet emerge from the ashes of this sorry mess. That is my hope too... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold melmoth Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 3, 2020 50 minutes ago, John M Upton said: Indeed looking at this did DJM actually own anything? I seem to remember this being discussed at the time the business failed. Some felt that basically DJM was just a vehicle for project management and cash handling. Except that Dave Jones wasn't that good at managing projects or handling cash. It's a bit like someone I know who fancies themselves as a bit of a DJ (the musical sort). They've not actually got any vinyl or decks, but they do have a Spotify subscription. 3 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, John M Upton said: I still hope somewhere the Class 17 may yet emerge from the ashes of this sorry mess. I haven't summoned up the motivation to find the thread myself, but was the Class 17 one of 'his' designs DJM (or maybe Dave Jones personally...) was claiming some sort of IPR on, in that last 'stream of consciousness' press release / rant on his site? Edited June 3, 2020 by spamcan61 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 3, 2020 I think it was one of those he thought he owned the tooling etc of but it turned out he didn't and they actually belonged to the factory. I got the impression he failed to read the small print in a contract somewhere. This would explain why the Class 17 after a visit by Dave to China suddenly went from almost here to postponed indefinitely amid one of his thinly disguised sessions of teddy tossing. That was when I began to suspect the ship was starting to sink... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rab Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said: Just to comply with social distancing, make sure they are over two metres in length. The pitch fork mob won't know what metres are. You'll have to tell them six and a half foot 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Would it be correct to say that the 14xx is wholly (tooling, rights etc) owned by Hattons? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MarkSG Posted June 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) Before some people start slagging Dave off too much, they might want to check that they didn't post anything in this topic when it was announced he was leaving Dapol: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74272-dave-jones-leaving-Dapol-in-august/ That's just under seven years ago. It's clear now, of course, that the reason he left Dapol was in order to start his own business. And the business itself is just under seven years old. In this context, it's worth noting that the five year survival rate for new businesses is under 50%. That is, more than half of all new businesses will have closed down before they get to five years. Dave did a tad better than that. So he did better than most new business start-ups. However, one of the most common reasons why start-ups fail is that their owners don't appreciate how different owning a business is to working for one. You can be an absolutely brilliant model designer - or a brilliant computer programmer, or a brilliant salesman, or even a brilliant accountant - and still fall flat on your face when you try to go it alone rather than as part of a team. That's often even more so when someone is the creative force behind a business, but feels frustrated at being hemmed in by the accounts department and senior management, and yearns for the opportunity to make all their own decisions. Because what they often find is that the decisions they fought against were, actually, the ones that kept them in a job in the first place. And if they don't learn to make those decisions themselves - even against their creative instincts - then all their undoubted skills in the area they're good at won't be enough to keep the show on the road. Edited June 3, 2020 by MarkSG 24 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 3, 2020 Hadn't he already tried and failed the 'one man band' route with N'thusiast resprays though, which didn't end well I recall. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BR Blue Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, spamcan61 said: Hadn't he already tried and failed the 'one man band' route with N'thusiast resprays though, which didn't end well I recall. Yes indeed that is correct. He may have exceeded the average of 5 years to fail but the extra 2 years allowed the failure to be bigger. I very much doubt the business was ever going to succeed. 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post John Isherwood Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2020 I do hope - though I think it a forlorn hope - that none of those members who shouted the praises of DJM from the housetops, when he left Dapol and started to announce his own products, are now decrying him so vociferously. I seem to recall an atmosphere of almost religious frenzy here at the time - when anyone daring to sound a note of caution was condemned outright as a destructive and faithless doubter! Yours cynically, John Isherwood. 4 23 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, cctransuk said: I do hope - though I think it a forlorn hope - that none of those members who shouted the praises of DJM from the housetops, when he left Dapol and started to announce his own products, are now decrying him so vociferously. I seem to recall an atmosphere of almost religious frenzy here at the time - when anyone daring to sound a note of caution was condemned outright as a destructive and faithless doubter! Yours cynically, John Isherwood. Not me guv, I'd decided he was temperamentally unsuited to working with Far Eastern companies back in 2011. Edited June 3, 2020 by spamcan61 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oleander Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 The figger quoted may be larger. dave jones has never hand over any deatilas of people who payed deposits . There are people who nevr knew he went under . There are people who never lodged a claim. When the liquideaters found out from Rm web about all the people that had paid deposists they ask dave for deatils which he never passed on. The true figger of the money owed will never be know due to the questionable pratices of DJ models. Sadley a lot of people have lost money and he done a lot of damage to the model railway world john 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Markwj Posted June 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 4, 2020 Wonder if he ever wrote that book! 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted June 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Markwj said: Wonder if he ever wrote that book! It'd be award winning... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damo666 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 12 hours ago, spamcan61 said: Not me guv, I'd decided he was temperamentally unsuited to working with Far Eastern companies back in 2011. I see that in that post you recommended a book for Dave to read. I also offered this book as reading material in the Class 92 thread. It's a very interesting insight. If only I wasn't so wrong in my opening paragraphs. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted June 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 4, 2020 I think we're still seeing the dead hand of DJ in Dapol releases such as the Class 121 which were announced when he was still involved in the design work. It's a terrible bit of over-fiddly engineering which doesn't work properly. Mine's self-destructed, others have had to remove one half of the gear train to get it to run realistically or for the motor not to overheat. Looks good, runs like a dog ... ring any bells? 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators AY Mod Posted June 4, 2020 Administrators Share Posted June 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, AlexHolt said: And these figures don't include the £250 deposits that many people paid for the APT, or any other deposits people may have paid for other models. You can't make that assertion as there is no breakdown of the unsecured creditors. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators AY Mod Posted June 4, 2020 Administrators Share Posted June 4, 2020 29 minutes ago, AlexHolt said: Theres a number of people who we know are not included in the final figures. Well you should have said 'some of' the £250 deposits; your assertion intimated that none of the £250 deposits were in the figures - you have no means of knowing that as the information has not been given by the liquidators. Think before posting please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Popular Post AY Mod Posted June 4, 2020 Administrators Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, DavidCBroad said: Anyway I have very little sympathy with anyone who gets mixed up with the Chinese, they got greedy. They used to be satisfied with a bowl of rice and a floppy hat, then they had to have a push bike, now they want a top of the range Rage Rover. Time to start making things in the UK again. Please stop the ridiculous racism; you should be ashamed of the attitude as well as that comment. Another one like that and it's a forum ban. 31 30 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DavidH Posted June 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, AY Mod said: Please stop the ridiculous racism; you should be ashamed of the attitude as well as that comment. Another one like that and it's a forum ban. What is wrong with people? I'm embarrassed just to be in the same forum as David. And deleting the words doesn't make us unsee it, David. You're still thinking it. 6 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Like I've said, this new DJ thread is just picking the scab of the old wound - nothing new to add to the discussion: There was no money left People are out of pocket Liquidator is out of pocket But we've got to go over it all again and now throw in some not so casual racism to the mix. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted June 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 4, 2020 19 hours ago, Mel_H said: From another site DJModels liquidation claims were £174K Big snip.... Development work had progressed from a June 2018 laser scan of the surviving vehicles at Crewe Heritage Centre, to an initial CAD drawing of the driving car and an early 3D test print of it, before the company, owned by Dave Jones, ran out of cash on 4 June 2020. ...... big snip According to that report today is the day the company runs out of money. I know this virus thingy has stretched time but ....... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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