Middleton Top and the C&HPR

[John Isherwood]

3 minutes ago, Middlepeak said:

Photos in the loading dock at DSF Friden show 5 plank opens in use, carrying 3 small open topped containers in which the bricks were packed with straw. Away from home at the moment, so can't access the picture I have in mind. The containers are described fully in one if Geoff Kent's books on wagon building, if you have those.

 

Depends on the type of brick though, as not all of them could be packed and shipped in the same way.

 

G

 

I've a feeling that these small brick containers were classified 'H'; and that it was suggested that the 'H' stood for HOD; (that being the name of the tool used by bricklayers' assistants to carry several bricks at a time).

 

CJI.

[Tortuga]

1 hour ago, Middlepeak said:

Photos in the loading dock at DSF Friden show 5 plank opens in use, carrying 3 small open topped containers in which the bricks were packed with straw. Away from home at the moment, so can't access the picture I have in mind. The containers are described fully in one if Geoff Kent's books on wagon building, if you have those.

 

Depends on the type of brick though, as not all of them could be packed and shipped in the same way.

 

G

Yet more 5-plank highs! Would they’ve been fitted given the heavy nature of the load?

 

Thanks for the hint regarding the Geoff Kent books; I’ll check through my copies.

[JustinDean]

On 17/06/2023 at 11:56, Tortuga said:

Agreed. I fancy trying my hand at the Parkside kit (BR Diag. 1/142 or 1/144*) and improving a Bachmann iron ore hopper (BR Diag. 1/161 or 1/162*) so some steel hoppers will definitely make an appearance on Alsop.

 

Photos of both types (*the second diagrams are described as “virtually identical” to the first in David Larkin’s ‘Wagons of the Early British Railways Era’) can be found in both the John Evans and the Middleton Press books of the C&HPR, at the southern end of the line, mainly appearing around Sheep’s Pasture incline and, more rarely, around Middleton. The Middleton Press book also has a couple of photos with ex-LMS hoppers at Middleton Top and Bottom: perhaps another wagon type for you @JustinDean?

 

I’ve not come across a photo of either type north of Middleton Top (perhaps they were too tall for loading facilities?) or any steel hoppers in use on the Buxton to Ashbourne line - not that I’m going to let that stop me running some!

Dave Bradwell makes a nice etched brass kit for the Dia 1/142 hopper here:

 

https://traders.scalefour.org/DaveBradwell/rolling-stock/

 

I’ve built the Parkside version and have two unmade in the stash. I seem remember finding it challenging so will give the above a go at some point in the very distant future. 
 

I have a few photos of BR Gannet - no kits for these in production that I know of. 
 

I’m fairly sure I’ve seen photos of hoppers at Parsley Hay. I’ll have a check.
 

Jay 

[JustinDean]

The set of three Palbrick B wagons arrived from KR Models. I don’t actually need these for Middleton Top but collecting stock that was used on the C&HPR seems to be a thing for me. 
All three arrived in excellent condition with no random parts detached. It’s nice that they have some weight to them out the box also. These will have the couplings changed and some slight weathering at some point but are not a priority; that’s the layout now. 
Here’s some photos:

 

There’s some very slight bowing to the sides:

 

Underframe, axlebox and brake details still look good under close up scrutiny. I should mention the body colour is lighter on my photos than in reality. 

 

 

 

 

Cost was £50 for a pack of three which I felt was quite good value.
 

Jay

Edited June 18, 2023 by JustinDean

[John Isherwood]

1 hour ago, JustinDean said:

The set of three Palbrick B wagons arrived from KR Models. I don’t actually need these for Middleton Top but collecting stock that was used on the C&HPR seems to be a thing for me. 
All three arrived in excellent condition with no random parts detached. It’s nice that they have some weight to them out the box also. These will have the couplings changed and some slight weathering at some point but are not a priority; that’s the layout now. 
Here’s some photos:

 

There’s some very slight bowing to the sides:

 

Underframe, axlebox and brake details still look good under close up scrutiny. I should mention the body colour is lighter on my photos than in reality. 

 

 

 

 

Cost was £50 for a pack of three which I felt was quite good value.
 

Jay

 

Unfortunately, the ends / bracing brackets should be bauxite, not black.

 

An easy repaint / reletter - but this should not be necessary.

 

(If required, I can supply the necessary transfers).

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

[JustinDean]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Unfortunately, the ends / bracing brackets should be bauxite, not black.

 

An easy repaint / reletter - but this should not be necessary.

 

(If required, I can supply the necessary transfers).

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

Thanks for the info John - I’ve only seen black and white photos of this wagon so had no idea. 
 

Jay

 

 

[JustinDean]

This afternoon I’ve made up some wooden fencing that will form the railway boundary opposite the engine shed. This is a laser cut product from Scale Model Scenery and posts are made up in layers. The fencing has received a base coat of burnt umber acrylic and will get further paint and weathering once on Middleton Top. 
 

Jay

 

[JustinDean]

3 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Unfortunately, the ends / bracing brackets should be bauxite, not black.

 

An easy repaint / reletter - but this should not be necessary.

 

(If required, I can supply the necessary transfers).

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

 

Hi John, I had an investigate and this seems to be the photo KR Models have worked from. 
 

 

Jay

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by JustinDean

[Tortuga]

Interesting that the buffer shanks seem to be bauxite in that photo. Also, how on earth did the ends get quite so filthy?

 

I re-read the MR review of these and the main gripe seemed to be that the black ends will necessitate a repaint into bauxite, nullifying the excellent lettering/numbering job. Shame, as they look to be nice models otherwise.

[John Isherwood]

12 hours ago, JustinDean said:

 

Hi John, I had an investigate and this seems to be the photo KR Models have worked from. 
 

 

Jay

 

 

 

I'm afraid that KRM misinterpreted what they were seeing.

 

That is a filthy, bauxite-bodied wagon which has had refurbishment of the removable sides, buffers and end brackets, (for holding the ends during unloading), amongst other work.

 

The refurbished items have been repainted, the remaining body has not - except for the patch behind the relettering. Note that the (replaced / refurbished?) brake cylinder is painted black.

 

John Isherwood.

[JustinDean]

8 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

I'm afraid that KRM misinterpreted what they were seeing.

 

That is a filthy, bauxite-bodied wagon which has had refurbishment of the removable sides, buffers and end brackets, (for holding the ends during unloading), amongst other work.

 

The refurbished items have been repainted, the remaining body has not - except for the patch behind the relettering. Note that the (replaced / refurbished?) brake cylinder is painted black.

 

John Isherwood.

Thanks for taking the time to clear that up John - much appreciated! 
I’ll be heading your way for some new transfers in that case. 
 

Jay 

[JustinDean]

On 17/06/2023 at 11:56, Tortuga said:

Agreed. I fancy trying my hand at the Parkside kit (BR Diag. 1/142 or 1/144*) and improving a Bachmann iron ore hopper (BR Diag. 1/161 or 1/162*) so some steel hoppers will definitely make an appearance on Alsop.

 

Photos of both types (*the second diagrams are described as “virtually identical” to the first in David Larkin’s ‘Wagons of the Early British Railways Era’) can be found in both the John Evans and the Middleton Press books of the C&HPR, at the southern end of the line, mainly appearing around Sheep’s Pasture incline and, more rarely, around Middleton. The Middleton Press book also has a couple of photos with ex-LMS hoppers at Middleton Top and Bottom: perhaps another wagon type for you @JustinDean?

 

I’ve not come across a photo of either type north of Middleton Top (perhaps they were too tall for loading facilities?) or any steel hoppers in use on the Buxton to Ashbourne line - not that I’m going to let that stop me running some!

A selection of hoppers on the Middleton Top - Parsley Hay section:

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by JustinDean

[Beechnut]

Ex LMS ‘Gannett’ ballast hoppers. Jidenco did a kit and they do crop up occasionally on eBay although I’ve never found one.

 

Brendan

[John Isherwood]

5 minutes ago, JustinDean said:

A selection of hoppers on the Middleton Top - Parsley Hay section:

 

 

 

 

Those, surely, are ex-LMS ballast hoppers - 'TROUT' under BR? (I'd need to get out the refs. to find the diagram number).

 

Limestone ballast?

 

CJI.

 

PS. 'GANNET' - quite correct! I know a man who might be able to produce a 3D print design!

Edited June 19, 2023 by cctransuk

[John Isherwood]

8 minutes ago, JustinDean said:

A selection of hoppers on the Middleton Top - Parsley Hay section:

 

 

 

 

The front wagon is in Departmental Gulf Red livery.

 

CJI.

[Tortuga]

Some nice photos that I’ve not seen before there @JustinDean. I’m guessing they’re all of the same working - the gulf red one appears to be the lead wagon each time - presumably from Middleton Top changing locomotive at Friden before continuing to Parsley Hay.

 

11 hours ago, cctransuk said:

PS. 'GANNET' - quite correct! I know a man who might be able to produce a 3D print design!

I’d certainly be interested in a couple!

[JustinDean]

Bit of fencing wrangling up ‘Top today.

 

 

need more adjustment I reckon. 
 

Jay

[John Isherwood]

On 20/06/2023 at 08:47, Tortuga said:

Some nice photos that I’ve not seen before there @JustinDean. I’m guessing they’re all of the same working - the gulf red one appears to be the lead wagon each time - presumably from Middleton Top changing locomotive at Friden before continuing to Parsley Hay.

 

I’d certainly be interested in a couple!

 

Keep watching IronMink on Thingiverse - the design should be available there, if all goes well.

 

CJI.

[JustinDean]

8 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Keep watching IronMink on Thingiverse - the design should be available there, if all goes well.

 

CJI.

Do you have a link for this please? Reckon I’d be up for some Gannets also!

Thanks in advance. 
Jay

[John Isherwood]

On 19/06/2023 at 20:48, Beechnut said:

Ex LMS ‘Gannett’ ballast hoppers. Jidenco did a kit and they do crop up occasionally on eBay although I’ve never found one.

 

Brendan

 

It won't be there yet - the designer has only just agreed to look at it!

 

Google Thingiverse, then search the site for Iron Mink or Ironmink.

 

The eventual design file will be downloadable FOC - you'll need to find someone to print it for you.

 

CJI

 

[JustinDean]

12 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

It won't be there yet - the designer has only just agreed to look at it!

 

Google Thingiverse, then search the site for Iron Mink or Ironmink.

 

The eventual design file will be downloadable FOC - you'll need to find someone to print it for you.

 

CJI

 

Thanks for the info - much appreciated 

 

Jay

[JustinDean]

Not the best photo - it seems it’s quite tricky taking a shot of a 4mm scale signal!

 

The home signal at the top of the incline had a 3’ corrugated LNWR arm, no spectacle plates and looked like other parts had been removed. I suspect it was static and haven’t seen any photos of it in the down position so I’ve modelled this accordingly. It’s a Ratio post with some bits removed, a cut down Ratio base then MSE parts for the arm, lamp and ladder. 
 

Jay

 

 

[JustinDean]

I’ve been working on a few bits of detailing for the layout while watching some Glastonbury highlights in the back ground. 
 

Started painting the signal arm. 
A means to get over the wall by the crossing. 
Weathered Oxford Models tractor. 
Gradient sign for the top of the incline. 
 

Jay

[Fishplate]

All looking very nice. Don't often see the wall ladders modelled. 

 

Gradients of railways are interesting because they look odd to modern eyes. However, in imperial measure, 1 in 1056 equals exactly 5ft rise (or fall in this case) per mile. I suspect you will find that gradient on the original parliamentary plans.

 

[Middlepeak]

On 24/06/2023 at 19:05, JustinDean said:

The home signal at the top of the incline had a 3’ corrugated LNWR arm, no spectacle plates and looked like other parts had been removed. I suspect it was static and haven’t seen any photos of it in the down position so I’ve modelled this accordingly. It’s a Ratio post with some bits removed, a cut down Ratio base then MSE parts for the arm, lamp and ladder. 

 

Hi Jay,

 

I found a picture in my collection showing the signal in operation. It was basically a signal from the hangers-on to the engineman that everything was set for the run to commence - wagons tied on, chocks removed. 

 

 

Regards,

 

G