Middleton Top and the C&HPR

[Tortuga]

13 hours ago, JustinDean said:

Looks like Middleton Top is in store for another bitterly cold night. 
 

Jay

 

Very wintery! Makes me chilly just looking at it!

[JustinDean]

I’ve been researching the C&HPR for sometime longer than I’ve been modeling Middleton Top and this is an aspect of the hobby I find incredibly absorbing yet don’t tend to post about much. I’m thinking in my model making downtime I may start to write a little about the locations on the line and make this thread a tad broader. So here’s a start:

 

Minninglow and milk traffic. 

The whole line was punctuated by private sidings, quarries, brickworks etc and at the moment I’m taking a look at Minninglow Goods, also known as Minninglow Sidings commissioned in 1883 and officially taken out of use March 1964. 

The location at milepost 14.01 was just two sidings and a loading dock with office, the whole site sandwiched between an ungated crossing on Mouldridge Lane and a bridge over Parwich Lane. This is now one of the High Peak Trail car parks. 
NLS Maps 

Google Maps

Ivo Peters

 

Ivo Peters

 

 

The only goods I can find evidence of at Minninglow is milk and this has been documented on Parwichhistory.org as something that was transported to the Nestles factory in Ashbourne which opened in 1912. Elsewhere I have read milk was transported from the C&HPR to the mainline where it was attached to the Buxton - Manchester train. In fact Buxton staff only were allowed to travel at night on C&HPR rails as far as Longcliffe. 

There is also photographic evidence of a milk churn marked: “ J Dakin. H P RLY. MINNINGLOW “

On RMWeb a member has speculated LNWR D46 Refridgerator vans were used to transport milk although I’ve been unable to find any photographic evidence to back up this claim. 

To fill in the information gaps there are still a few questions. 

How was Minninglow goods operated? The loading dock faces onto the mainline and not the siding. Also the second siding is on the opposite side of the line with no road access so what was this used for?

Was there other traffic besides milk transported from this location? 

Do any photos exist with the loading dock still in place?

Last of all confirmation on the type of vehicles used would be useful. 

Jay

Edited January 20, 2023 by JustinDean

[JustinDean]

@Tortuga while researching this the Parwich history site explains that the majority of farmers would take their milk to be loaded onto trains to Alsop - thought that may be useful being as that’s where your layout is based. 
 

Jay

[MrWolf]

I've always been fascinated by the archaeological side of railways and research, probably because I was born after it was all gone. 

I can remember riding around in my father's old Vauxhall 101, (that was already an antique too) and out of the windows I could see embankments stretching across the landscape, ending in a crumbling abutment by a road or river or simply fading out in the middle of a field and that got my curiosity going as where did that go? What did that look like? 

The only way in my mind to find out was to read, hack your way through the brambles or try to recreate it in miniature.

I'm busy with 1 and 3, roll on some dry days for 2, it's much easier in winter!

[Tortuga]

31 minutes ago, JustinDean said:

@Tortuga while researching this the Parwich history site explains that the majority of farmers would take their milk to be loaded onto trains to Alsop - thought that may be useful being as that’s where your layout is based. 
 

Jay

Thanks Jay! That is useful info that I haven’t come across before.

Thats another traffic source for the daily trip working at Alsop as well as (presumably) coal and water.

 

[JustinDean]

Painted the cabin that resides at the top of the incline. I’ve seen this labelled as a control cabin and others exist of the same design at Hopton Top and Parsley Hay.

 

 

Still a few bits to do such as glazing, door knob and some detail on the stove chimney.

 

 

Jay

 

[rockershovel]

On 28/11/2022 at 16:49, SteveyDee68 said:

@JustinDean have you followed the Kerr Stuart Victory class thread re: the model by Planet Industrials? (They had a stand at Warley, too!)

 

There is mention of placing the BR crest and loco number on the all black version being ‘similar to the ex North London Railway tanks as used on the C&HPR” (or words to that effect) and I must admit looking at the mock up that I was … intrigued…

 

‘Tain’t prototypical, but it is a beauty of a model … any thoughts of applying Rule #1 and acquiring such a beast for your layout?

 

HOURS OF FUN!

 

PS

I suppose I could ask the same question of @Middlepeak?!

 

Digressing somewhat, but is this the same prototype as the ex-British Sugar loco now at NVR as "the original Thomas"?

 

* I find that "Thomas" is in fact, a Hudswell Clarke 

Edited January 24, 2023 by rockershovel

[SteveyDee68]

7 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

Digressing somewhat, but is this the same prototype as the ex-British Sugar loco now at NVR as "the original Thomas"?

None of the Victory class locos made it into preservation, so no!

[rockershovel]

I've always been fascinated by this line. I first discovered it when walking in the Peaks with the Scouts in about 1968 and rediscovered it as a cycle trail when camping in the Peaks with my children around 2002. 

[Argos]

On 20/01/2023 at 21:16, JustinDean said:

On RMWeb a member has speculated LNWR D46 Refridgerator vans were used to transport milk

 

Hi Justin,

LNWR Wagons Vol 2 states that in 1891 two D46 refrigerator vans built on the West Coast Joint Stock account were added to LNWR stock for use on the C&HP. They were labelled "Ladmanlow Branch"

 

This is at odds with the detail in a Register of West Coast Joint Stock which records the first 50 D46 vans as being built on that account in 1893.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Argos

[JustinDean]

1 hour ago, Argos said:

 

Hi Justin,

LNWR Wagons Vol 2 states that in 1891 two D46 refrigerator vans built on the West Coast Joint Stock account were added to LNWR stock for use on the C&HP. They were labelled "Ladmanlow Branch"

 

This is at odds with the detail in a Register of West Coast Joint Stock which records the first 50 D46 vans as being built on that account in 1893.

 

Hope that helps.

 

That’s very useful - thanks very much for that!

 

I really must purchase that book. 
 

Jay

 

[JustinDean]

2 hours ago, Argos said:

 

Hi Justin,

LNWR Wagons Vol 2 states that in 1891 two D46 refrigerator vans built on the West Coast Joint Stock account were added to LNWR stock for use on the C&HP. They were labelled "Ladmanlow Branch"

 

This is at odds with the detail in a Register of West Coast Joint Stock which records the first 50 D46 vans as being built on that account in 1893.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Does the book state running numbers for those two particular wagons?

 

Thanks

Jay

[Argos]

6 hours ago, JustinDean said:

Does the book state running numbers for those two particular wagons?

 

Thanks

Jay

 

Hi Jay,

Unfortunately not.

The Register of West Coast Joint Stock book does state the fifty D46 vans built in 1893 for the WCJS were numbered 287-336.

Presumably they would be one of those numbers.

I'm also presuming they kept those numbers when transferred to LNWR stock (I know the dates don't align) but would bow to anyone with better (any!) knowledge of late 19th century accounting practices!

[JustinDean]

23 minutes ago, Argos said:

 

Hi Jay,

Unfortunately not.

The Register of West Coast Joint Stock book does state the fifty D46 vans built in 1893 for the WCJS were numbered 287-336.

Presumably they would be one of those numbers.

I'm also presuming they kept those numbers when transferred to LNWR stock (I know the dates don't align) but would bow to anyone with better (any!) knowledge of late 19th century accounting practices!

Thanks for that. 
I may pose the question to the LNWR Society. 
 

Jay

[JustinDean]

Painting day at last. The Dock tank and three tender water carriers have been sprayed black and are now drying safely under cover. 
Pictured below are the two ex Furness Railway brake vans brush painted with LMS grey and now drying. 

 

Jay

[JustinDean]

It’s probably about time I filled in all those massive gaps. 
 

Jay

 

[JustinDean]

The 4 wheel tenders for water traffic have finally been painted and couplings added. These now needed some heavy weathering. 
I need a spare evening to put transfers on the LNWR Dock Tank and ex Furness Railway brake van but with a big album recording project happening over the next two weeks it maybe a little while till it gets done. 
 

Jay

[Tortuga]

They look really good Jay!

 

On the down side, you’ve reminded me I need to look up the photo of the water tender in the yard at Alsop - I’ve a feeling it’s not one of these though.

[mullie]

'Album recording project, ' I'm intrigued. 

 

Martyn 

[MrWolf]

2 hours ago, Tortuga said:

They look really good Jay!

 

On the down side, you’ve reminded me I need to look up the photo of the water tender in the yard at Alsop - I’ve a feeling it’s not one of these though.

 

They absolutely do, almost a shame to weather them and make them look virtually scrap, but nothing stays rust free up on the high peak for long, not even the sheep.

 

2 hours ago, mullie said:

'Album recording project, ' I'm intrigued. 

 

Martyn 

 

Likewise, an intriguingly vague announcement...

[JustinDean]

8 hours ago, Tortuga said:

They look really good Jay!

 

On the down side, you’ve reminded me I need to look up the photo of the water tender in the yard at Alsop - I’ve a feeling it’s not one of these though.

Thanks! If you can show me the photo I may be able to help you out.

 

Jay

[JustinDean]

8 hours ago, mullie said:

'Album recording project, ' I'm intrigued. 

 

Martyn 

Probably not as exciting as it sounds. 
Just putting the producer hat on for a while;

for album work this seems to be happening less and less as artists become more interested in making single ‘tracks’ rather than a full body of work. 
The band are decent - a bit 60’s garage and a bit Cramps. @MrWolf would probably like them. 
 

Jay

[JustinDean]

5 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

They absolutely do, almost a shame to weather them and make them look virtually scrap, but nothing stays rust free up on the high peak for long, not even the sheep.

 

 

Likewise, an intriguingly vague announcement...

Nothing stays rust free, not even me!

It’s been proper wet and cold here the last couple of days. 

 

I’m looking forward to weathering them - in this state they look like they need coupling to a loco. 
 

Jay

[WFPettigrew]

On 29/01/2023 at 17:55, JustinDean said:

Painting day at last. The Dock tank and three tender water carriers have been sprayed black and are now drying safely under cover. 
Pictured below are the two ex Furness Railway brake vans brush painted with LMS grey and now drying. 

 

Jay

 

Are those Pregrouping railways/Furness Wagon Co products?

 

All the best

 

Neil 

 

(modelling Furness in, err, Furness!)

[JustinDean]

3 hours ago, WFPettigrew said:

 

Are those Pregrouping railways/Furness Wagon Co products?

 

All the best

 

Neil 

 

(modelling Furness in, err, Furness!)

The Furness Railway brake is indeed from @Marc d at Pregrouping Railways. 
 

Jay