NSE Railway Society copyright issues?

[Steamport Southport]

I wonder where they stand on this....

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/15038/22232752852/

 

 

 

Genuine as I remember it being in magazines at the time.

 

 

Jason

[big jim]

25 minutes ago, newbryford said:

[flippant post time - may have been influenced by lockdown cabin fever and alcohol]

 

Can I copyright various shades of yellow?

 

Only 50 of them 

[rab]

8 hours ago, big jim said:

Only 50 of them 

Sounds like a grey area to me!

[newbryford]

But seriously though.

Surely a society such as this should be glad that folks are promoting NSE?

 

I don't see the Lancashire & Yorkshire Society doing similar stuff with those modelling the L&Y for example....

[Grovenor]

They registered the trade mark in 2015 and the registration does include use for models as well as a wide range of other things such as publications and souvenir tat.

It has been kept pretty quiet till now, I wonder if they took any steps to advise likely infringers in the last 5 years.

[009 micro modeller]

Is it because they need to be able to sell NSE merchandise to finance their activities?

[PenrithBeacon]

5 hours ago, newbryford said:

But seriously though.

Surely a society such as this should be glad that folks are promoting NSE?

 

I don't see the Lancashire & Yorkshire Society doing similar stuff with those modelling the L&Y for example....

Are they really promoting NSE? IIRC I've never seen them at a show although their Events page shows that they do appear here and there. Their Shop page is full of tat, of no interest to the modeller.

I'm no legal expert but I do wonder if you can defend owning a trademark that was once in common use and could be seen all over the UK. I have a Bachmann Cl108 in NSE livery if I display it at a show would I be contravening their trademark I wonder.

Cheers

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I have a Bachmann Cl108 in NSE livery if I display it at a show would I be contravening their trademark I wonder.

 

No because you are using a product which was produced with the correct permissions. Otherwise Coca-Cola would be banning you from drinking the can of Coke you've just bought.

[PenrithBeacon]

Ok so did Bachmann actually ask this society for permission or was it done before they had the trademark?

It all seems a bit tacky to me. If these people actually produced a range of models or transfers then they could claim to be promoting NSE but as it is they seem to be exploiting it to no one's benefit but their own.

[AY Mod]

I don't see any evidence of 'exploitation' from the society but I know permissions and consents have been sought and given. It's a respectful courtesy, I do know of some at the cottage industry end of the spectrum who don't stop to consider intellectual property, trademark usage or even copyright law (BTW this issue has nothing whatsever to do with copyright), they just do as they like and I wouldn't object to hearing of them getting a dig in the ribs when they didn't have the courtesy to seek consent.

[simonmcp]

On 14/04/2020 at 00:03, newbryford said:

[flippant post time - may have been influenced by lockdown cabin fever and alcohol]

 

Can I copyright various shades of yellow?

 

Not so flippant answer:- If you produce a "piece of work" which uses various shades of anything it is automatically your copyright, however crudely done, specifically that exact "piece of work" will be your copyright . I am a graphic designer and artist so am familiar with the UK copyright laws.

 

Simon

[spamcan61]

On 14/04/2020 at 00:03, newbryford said:

 

Can I copyright various shades of yellow?

 

Copyright; no, but UPS have successfully registered their shade of brown as a trademark in the USA, however whoever owns Cadburys failed to get their shade of purple registered as a trademark in Europe.

 

In both cases the trademark colour only applied to the relevant business sector i.e. parcel delivery and chocolate respectively.

Edited April 26, 2020 by spamcan61

[009 micro modeller]

Was the recent repaint for the 313 farewell affected by this? And would the various bits of leftover NSE-branded stuff on the rail network (thinking particularly of the Northern City Line) be OK because they were installed before the trademark was registered?

[newbryford]

2 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Was the recent repaint for the 313 farewell affected by this? And would the various bits of leftover NSE-branded stuff on the rail network (thinking particularly of the Northern City Line) be OK because they were installed before the trademark was registered?

 

That's an interesting one.

I had read somewhere that the various US railroads painted odd wagons (cars) in "heritage" liveries to maintain their use of them and not lose the IP rights/trademarks.

BICBW.

 

Maybe the Northern line/TfL could sue the NSE Society...........?

 

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

 

That's an interesting one.

I had read somewhere that the various US railroads painted odd wagons (cars) in "heritage" liveries to maintain their use of them and not lose the IP rights/trademarks.

BICBW.

 

Maybe the Northern line/TfL could sue the NSE Society...........?

 

Not the Northern line, the Northern City Line (Finsbury Park to Moorgate via Drayton Park - now National Rail) - although of course it was technically part of the Northern Line at one stage before becoming part of the GN mainline suburban network as it is today, and was in NSE days. It depends exactly what they’ve trademarked (presumably a logo rather than just blue and white divided by a red stripe) but the 313 repaint definitely featured a logo of some sort.

[ruggedpeak]

Had a search and found that it appears DB Cargo have trademarked the Railfreight Sector logos as well as other historic logos and terms. Have allowed some like 'Load Haul' to expire

 

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?domain=1&page=1&id=99325&app=0&mark=UK00002137670

[Wheatley]

DBC have inherited the trademarks trademarked by BR for the Railfrieght logos, the filing dates are all 1988. They presumably transferred to Loadhaul/Transrail and whatever the other one was, then to EWS, then to DB.

 

The freight companies were bought outright, not franchised, so their IP went wih them.

 

Interesting about the 313. If NSERS did own the trademark on the lgo by then, I wonder if it still applies if the stickers were old stock found in a drawer on a depot somewhere ?

[JamieNunez]

Thank you so much for nice discussion about NSE Railway Society copyright issue

 

You should need to know about differences between trademark and copyrights. https://trademarkangel.com/differences-between-trademark-and-copyright/ 

 

After the knowledge of the copyright and trademark difference you will be know about all this matter.

Thank you.

Edited August 12, 2020 by JamieNunez