An Unusual Coach

[John Isherwood]

 

(Link inserted - image appeared)

 

So what's the second vehicle in the train?

 

Something to do with catering? (Two water tanks towards the vehicle centre).

 

Are those mesh guards over the windows towards the outer ends?

 

I can't place this one at all.

 

There are some other oddities further back in the train, but they are somewhat indistinct.

 

John Isherwood.

[Aire Head]

3 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

(Link inserted - image appeared)

 

So what's the second vehicle in the train?

 

Something to do with catering? (Two water tanks towards the vehicle centre).

 

Are those mesh guards over the windows towards the outer ends?

 

I can't place this one at all.

 

There are some other oddities further back in the train, but they are somewhat indistinct.

 

John Isherwood.

 

Headcodes indicates class C (Parcels/fully fitted). Perhaps the coach is a TPO? Might explain the grilles?

[mozzer models]

the coach is a inspection saloon

[John Isherwood]

11 minutes ago, mozzer models said:

the coach is a inspection saloon

 

Makes sense - anyone hazard a guess as to origin? (My guess would be ex-LMS or BR(LMR)).

 

Regards,

john Isherwood.

[Mallard60022]

John, post this on a Nod to Brent; they have a load of background knowledge and also posters that have massive libraries of info on GWR/WR stuff. Looks a bit GWR to me but what do I know? ATB

Phil

[Mallard60022]

On second thoughts, maybe it some sort of train including 'secure' items, thus the several vehicles that look like 'Bullion' carriers and the reason for grilles on that mystery coach?

 

Phil

[Steamport Southport]

The bottom "cut outs" are intriguing. Looks like at some point it's been articulated.

 

Kitchen Car from a Dining set?

 

 

 

Jason

[Ian Hargrave]

Is it perhaps a 12 wheeler ? Ex-LMS Kitchen car ? Not TPO,I think.Freshly painted in crimson & cream.,it would appear.

The appearance of LMS/LMR vehicles on WR trains at this time was not unusual,particularly Stanier stock.But this might be  a Fowler varietal.A wild guess here....is this vehicle in transit for inclusion in some kind of special train formation?  It’s “Fairey Battle “ with tall chimney which dates it late 40’s/ early50’s. I think at the time she was a Canton engine..86C.Saw her more times than I’ve had hot dinners in her prime.Later a Landore favourite...87E...with shed foreman White of silvered buffer fame.
 

     Intriguing.

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Ian Hargrave
Additional text

[Prometheus]

The photo describes the engine as Chepstow Castle, near Exminster, and the date the 28th. July 1955.

 

Tony

[31A]

Is it this?

 

http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=135

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

8 minutes ago, 31A said:

Is it this?

 

http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=135

 

 

That looks to have been a brake originally. The vehicle in the photo seems to have passenger accommodation at each end and a kitchen (?) midships.

[Steamport Southport]

I'm wondering whether it might be something by Thompson as it's roof profile matches that of the Gresley van behind it.

 

 

 

Jason

[Joseph_Pestell]

It would probably help us if we know what the train was. I think that at this date there would still have been specials for theatre and circus tours.

 

I have commented on the Brent thread that it has a bit of an LNW look to me. And also that it is a rather wide coach.

[Nearholmer]

Yes, my instant reaction was 'catering vehicle', possibly re-purposed. I thought possibly one of those GWR cross-country restaurant cars with seating either end, but i think they had 2 seating bays, kitchen, 3 seating bays, so maybe not. 

[markw]

It's a diagram D2195 cafeteria, converted from ex LMS convertible sleeper (ex ambulance train), all were initially allocated to the western region.

[The Johnster]

This sounds like the most likely answer.  The bogies are certainly LMS and the lack of folding steps precludes it's being an inspection saloon.  Blowing up the photo shows the loco to be 4077 Chepstow Castle as Prometheus says, and Exminster and Prometheus' date make sense as this loco was allox Laira at the time.

[Prometheus]

The knowledge on here never fails to amaze me!

 

Tony

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

On second thoughts, maybe it some sort of train including 'secure' items, thus the several vehicles that look like 'Bullion' carriers and the reason for grilles on that mystery coach?

 

Phil

Definitely no bullion vans in that train - the GWR bullion vans were very distinctive low roofed vehicles.  But they were sometimes moved empty in non-passenger trains over short distances although normally any long distance move would be in Class A passenger trains, empty or loaded.

[TheSignalEngineer]

7 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Definitely no bullion vans in that train - the GWR bullion vans were very distinctive low roofed vehicles.  But they were sometimes moved empty in non-passenger trains over short distances although normally any long distance move would be in Class A passenger trains, empty or loaded.

Always knew when one was coming to Birmingham c1960. They came on the 12.10pm Paddington - Birkenhead due 2.19pm. This train was used because it was first stop Snow Hill.

Around 1pm there would be a Police presence around the station and at the Fish Siding on the Snow Hill side. Just after 2pm the Station Pilot complete with PC riding shotgun would head through the station to take up position in the Down Sidings South. The Bullion Van was detached and moved to the Fish Siding for unloading straight into road vehicles to go to the Bank of England Cash Centre.

Detaching was a smartly done move as the train was only booked four minutes in Platform 5, although it always seemed to get a clear run when used for this move and could pick up about five minutes between Aynho and Birmingham with a King up front.

[Mallard60022]

Clive Morty identified it (as has Mark, 6 posts above) on A Nod to Brent; very useful. He knows his coaches does Clive. I had thought there was a Bullion Van, 7 back and penultimate van (low roof) before longer coaches, however I bow to MIke's knowledge about that.

Yes, knowledge is what keeps me poking around RMW, however annoying I might be.

Ar$£

[Mallard60022]

19 hours ago, 31A said:

Is it this?

 

http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=135

 

That was known as the 'Whitewash Coach' Steve. When there was a rough bit of track the geezer sat in it (Technician of some sort) used to let a splash of whitewash onto the track, to be identified later by a track gang.

P

[Fat Controller]

3 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Always knew when one was coming to Birmingham c1960. They came on the 12.10pm Paddington - Birkenhead due 2.19pm. This train was used because it was first stop Snow Hill.

Around 1pm there would be a Police presence around the station and at the Fish Siding on the Snow Hill side. Just after 2pm the Station Pilot complete with PC riding shotgun would head through the station to take up position in the Down Sidings South. The Bullion Van was detached and moved to the Fish Siding for unloading straight into road vehicles to go to the Bank of England Cash Centre.

Detaching was a smartly done move as the train was only booked four minutes in Platform 5, although it always seemed to get a clear run when used for this move and could pick up about five minutes between Aynho and Birmingham with a King up front.

At one time, there was a siding in the tunnel between Moor St and Snow Hill, I believe.

In the early 1980s, I had an office overlooking Tyneside Central Freight Depot., which had a regular Bullion train (the 'Bullion' in this case being mainly 'soiled' notes) Again, it was evident when it would be due, as police cars were everywhere.. One driver had obviously been watching too much Sweeney, as he followed the train along the reception road. Such a shame the road turned to the left, and that he carried straight on.

[Mallard60022]

I have built a Comet, Mk 1 Bullion Van and I have another in kit form; (both need a good home now). Not that interesting, however even those coaches were quite interesting and I knew nothing about them or their work and the weird vehicles that ran with them on the ECML up to/back from Fat Controller's neck of the woods. I've got a couple of Comet, Mk 1 Underframes to use for the Reinforced Bullion Containers that ran with the Coach(es). Mr. Bartlett provides pictures of all these interesting things. 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Mallard60022

[keefer]

I remembered mention of the mk1 bullion vans going to Leeds (i think there was a pic on Dave F's thread), but Google 'rmweb leeds bullion' and there are a few modelling threads where the workings are described.

[TheSignalEngineer]

2 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

At one time, there was a siding in the tunnel between Moor St and Snow Hill, I believe.

When the Bank of England building was on the corner of Temple Street and St Phillip's Place there was an entrance from the tunnel which had the old Milk Sidings.  It was hidden among the stables for the shunting horses used at the south end of the station I understand. There was also a Blacksmith's shop down there. I went in that part of the tunnels in 1985 when I was doing the plan for signalling of the reopened station. I couldn't identify the BoE entrance but there were a couple of bricked-up areas. Couldn't get any good pictures down there as it was the darkest place I think I have ever been other than underground in a coal mine.