RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted Monday at 21:37 RMweb Premium Share Posted Monday at 21:37 2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said: What I find incredible is that in all the debate about Port Talbot moving away from virgin steel ino-one has mentioned that the steel produced there from scrap will simply not be suitable for many applications. Most of those protesting share the general public's level of understanding and assume that all coal is the same, all oil is the same and there is only one type of steel. OT but I've had to explain to people before that just because an apple contains "sugar", it's really not the same as eating two teaspoons of Tate & Lyle. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted Monday at 21:39 RMweb Premium Share Posted Monday at 21:39 16 minutes ago, phil-b259 said: Firstly there is overseas and there is overseas.... We might well have left the club but last time I looked there were plenty of EU steelworks who would be only to glad of our business. Moreover a sane analysis of geo-politics proves that we are extremely unlikely to be cut off from said sources (a la WW2) or find ourselves in a situation where steel cannot be procured in a timely fashion Secondly, yes, in an ideal world the UKs industrial base would have retained a large quantity of manufacturing industry (and thus a high demand for steel) but seeing as said industry was dismantled decades ago in pursuit of an economy based on services / finance then we should not complain about offshoring steel production either. Oh no, not the old, "We don't make anything in the UK any more" myth again. <Head in hands> 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted Monday at 21:50 Share Posted Monday at 21:50 21 minutes ago, phil-b259 said: Firstly there is overseas and there is overseas.... We might well have left the club but last time I looked there were plenty of EU steelworks who would be only to glad of our business. Moreover a sane analysis of geo-politics proves that we are extremely unlikely to be cut off from said sources (a la WW2) or find ourselves in a situation where steel cannot be procured in a timely fashion Secondly, yes, in an ideal world the UKs industrial base would have retained a large quantity of manufacturing industry (and thus a high demand for steel) but seeing as said industry was dismantled decades ago in pursuit of an economy based on services / finance then we should not complain about offshoring steel production either. i was under the impression that the main problem with both British and European steelmaking (and for that matter in the US as well) was Chinese dumping of product at low prices. Free trade is a great idea, and many of us will have done the jolly graphs at school about the economic benefits of specialisation. Unfortunately it all falls flat on its face when there isn't a level playing field, and specifically one player gives massive subsidies to its domestic industry to undercut everyone else. Scary too, when that one player has imperialist ambitions around the globe, and its economic warfare impacts the ability of others to maintain an adequate military capacity. John. 1 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted Tuesday at 01:45 RMweb Premium Share Posted Tuesday at 01:45 3 hours ago, Northmoor said: Oh no, not the old, "We don't make anything in the UK any more" myth again. <Head in hands> I didn't say that - the UK still makes lots of things, but the important thing is most of them don't consume vast amounts of steel do they! Aerospace (one of the UKs growth areas in terms of manufacture) uses lighter metal such as aluminium or even carbon fibre / composite materials to give but one example. Similarly although the UK defence industry tends to perform well - its not equipment like boat hulls we are talking about (which consume lots of steel) - its avionics and electronics where most UK specialism lies. 3 hours ago, John Tomlinson said: i was under the impression that the main problem with both British and European steel making (and for that matter in the US as well) was Chinese dumping of product at low prices. That is indeed a problem, but its also true that in general there is (or certainly used to be) an overcapacity in steel production with the EU precisely because individual nations kept propping up their own players so as to effectively buy votes come election time (the same tactic was also used with coal mines in the past). 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted Tuesday at 01:51 RMweb Premium Share Posted Tuesday at 01:51 Given I'm partly responsible for the thread drift I'm sure this will attract criticism.... I'm thinking we should take discussions about steel (as interesting as they are) elsewhere as it has very little direct relevance to HS2 itself.... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted Tuesday at 05:03 Share Posted Tuesday at 05:03 No steel = No HS2 (or all other civil engineering construction projects, not just railways). Google Chinese rebar quality (concrete reinforcing bar) for one example. We Brits lead the world at shooting ourselves in both feet. Brit15 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busmansholiday Posted Tuesday at 07:36 Share Posted Tuesday at 07:36 (edited) As a final comment on steel, from somebody who spent almost 40 years in the industry, all this about the quality of steel only made from scrap is complete rubbish. You can make any quality steel from scrap, in fact the most expensive and quality reliant ones such as aircraft landing gear are all made from 100% scrap. It's the things you add (or remove) when you have the liquid steel that matters, not how you get to the liquid part. In terms of a greener future, reusing scrap is the greenest way forward and don't forget the UK no longer has any coal or iron ore mining facilities (the two most important parts of iron making). The coal and iron ore used at Port Talbot and Scunthorpe is shipped from the other side of the planet, and as a final comment, don't go looking up what is emitted into the atmosphere from Coke Ovens, Sinter Plants or Blast Furnaces, you really don't want to know. Edited Tuesday at 07:37 by Busmansholiday 3 1 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted Tuesday at 08:16 Share Posted Tuesday at 08:16 No Coal mines, Coke Ovens, Sinter Plants or Blast Furnaces etc no new steel. No new steel a lot less construction etc. The world can't go forward on scrap alone. In the UK we have decided to close most of our heavy industry and virtue signal to the world our "green" credentials whilst shooting ourselves in both feet and one arm (one is needed to hold the gun !!). The rest of the world (USA, India, China, Russia & Australia (vast coal & iron ore exporter) simply do not care. I watched the HS2 BBC programme last night, left me disgusted. Gas is next on the chopping block, it's not just poor pensioners that will be freezing in winter in the coming years. Brit15 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted Tuesday at 12:36 RMweb Premium Share Posted Tuesday at 12:36 I am surprised by what busmansholiday has written as it contradicts what I have read elsewhere, but I am happy to accept that he knows what he is talking about. Let's hope the HS2 rails come by rail then! And back on topic, I notice that most of the emissions from government at the moment are smoke and mirrors rather than useful statements - as usual for any government. I have just been reading the latest issue of Modern Railways with its thoughts for the future of railways in the UK, including HS2. One question which I know no-one can answer is whether HS2 will also be "nationalised" and simply become part of the network or whether it will retain some kind of separate existence. It will be interesting to see. But also a chance to thank those who regularly post videos of progress with various parts of HS2. Please keep up the good work. So let's get back to the engineering. Jonathan 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted Tuesday at 14:24 Share Posted Tuesday at 14:24 1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said: …...One question which I know no-one can answer is whether HS2 will also be "nationalised" and simply become part of the network or whether it will retain some kind of separate existence. It will be interesting to see...….. As HS2 Phase 1 is only connected to the NR “classic” network at one place**, the end of the line at Handsacre, it’s a completely separate and independent network, like HS1. Even with Phase 2a & b, the only other connection between HS2 and the “classic” network, would have been just south of Crewe and the previously cancelled Golborne link. If thought to be a better financial arrangement, when the line is operational, it would be ideally placed to be run on a long lease, or franchise, like HS1. How the current government would view that from an ideological perspective, is anyone’s guess at the moment. Will they even be in power by the time the first phase of HS2 opens? ** note: There are access points via the infrastructure depot at Calvert and traincare depot at Washwood Heath, but not direct links into the “classic” network. . 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted Tuesday at 15:21 Share Posted Tuesday at 15:21 57 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said: As HS2 Phase 1 is only connected to the NR “classic” network at one place**, the end of the line at Handsacre, it’s a completely separate and independent network, like HS1. Even with Phase 2a & b, the only other connection between HS2 and the “classic” network, would have been just south of Crewe and the previously cancelled Golborne link. If thought to be a better financial arrangement, when the line is operational, it would be ideally placed to be run on a long lease, or franchise, like HS1. How the current government would view that from an ideological perspective, is anyone’s guess at the moment. Will they even be in power by the time the first phase of HS2 opens? ** note: There are access points via the infrastructure depot at Calvert and traincare depot at Washwood Heath, but not direct links into the “classic” network. . is there no connection at all at the London end? even for infrastructure access rather than service trains? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted Tuesday at 15:38 Share Posted Tuesday at 15:38 12 minutes ago, GordonC said: is there no connection at all at the London end? even for infrastructure access rather than service trains? It does connect with Network Rail at Calvert for infrastructure but once into London it's mainly in tunnel so really only Euston would be a possible connection...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted Tuesday at 18:28 Share Posted Tuesday at 18:28 2 hours ago, GordonC said: is there no connection at all at the London end? even for infrastructure access rather than service trains? As woodenhead reiterates, from my previous post, infrastructure access is gained at Calvert, from the new HS2 infrastructure depot to be built there. Infrastructure trains access that depot from the new E-W rail line and will access HS2 for work, from the depot. One of the revised designs for Euston showed what looked like one HS2 platform road accessible from the WCML tracks, but that may have been an error. The rest of the HS2 infrastructure at Euston (tracks, platforms) is completely isolated from the existing station's classic lines. Bear in mind, HS2 is being built as a UIC GC gauge railway and not directly compatible in certain aspects, with the classic lines. . 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted yesterday at 05:21 RMweb Premium Share Posted yesterday at 05:21 This video of a new bridge for the A452 near Kenilworth has just been posted. Jamie 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted yesterday at 08:12 RMweb Premium Share Posted yesterday at 08:12 "Oops, sorry we built the bridge in the wrong place. You'll have to move the motorway." Seriously, quite a lot of civil engineering to move the motorway over to cross the bridge. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DY444 Posted yesterday at 08:19 Share Posted yesterday at 08:19 17 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said: As HS2 Phase 1 is only connected to the NR “classic” network at one place**, the end of the line at Handsacre, it’s a completely separate and independent network, like HS1. . Indeed, however by my count HS1 has 6 connections with the classic network, not all currently in use admittedly, but they are nevertheless there. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted yesterday at 10:42 Share Posted yesterday at 10:42 2 hours ago, DY444 said: Indeed, however by my count HS1 has 6 connections with the classic network, not all currently in use admittedly, but they are nevertheless there. True, but connections of which only specific types of service are able to use for interoperability with the classic network. Namely the Southeastern High Speed services and the small amount of freight work between the Channel Tunnel and Ripple Lane (if those night time freight paths are being used?). Otherwise HS1 is, as you agree, is an separate, independent network. . 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted yesterday at 10:55 Share Posted yesterday at 10:55 (edited) HS2 Ltd have announced some changes to the detailed design for Curzon St. station. https://mediacentre.hs2.org.uk/news/hs2-reveals-final-designs-for-birmingham-curzon-street-station They've also updated their CGI image gallery (lots more images than those included below)........ https://mediacentre.hs2.org.uk/resources/f/construction/curzon-street-station/design The layout (minus rail and platform deck level)...... Note Moor St. station, adjacent to the main entrance, at Station Square, on the left hand side of the image. New Canal St. Square is partly underneath the station, as is the Eastern arrival Space and car park at the top right. . Edited 19 hours ago by Ron Ron Ron 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted yesterday at 11:10 Share Posted yesterday at 11:10 A recent look at the site for the HS2 control centre and train depot at Washwood Heath. Plus the northern portal of the Bromford tunnel. The video is a bit long winded though. . 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenysW Posted yesterday at 13:26 Share Posted yesterday at 13:26 2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said: the detailed design for Curzon St. station. These images appear to show absolutely classic hostility to those of limited mobility. Let's make the lady with the Zimmer frame walk gratuitously long distances. Let's put in stairs to discourage mobility scooters. Let's put the lifts in where you have to walk further to get to them. Let's also not show that station on a dreich day in winter when folks are scurrying to get out of the blowing drizzle/sleet, few of the trees have leaves, and litter is being blown around. This is Birmingham, after all. Sigh. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted yesterday at 13:41 Share Posted yesterday at 13:41 2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said: HS2 Ltd have announced some changes to the detailed design for Curzon St. station. https://mediacentre.hs2.org.uk/news/hs2-reveals-final-designs-for-birmingham-curzon-street-station They've also updated their CGI image gallery (lots more images than those included below)........ https://mediacentre.hs2.org.uk/resources/f/construction/curzon-street-station/design The layout (minus traffic deck level...... Note Moor St. station, adjacent to the main entrance, at Station Square, on the left hand side of the image. New Canal St. Square is partly underneath the station, as is the Eastern arrival Space and car park at the top right. . The roof design and particularly the diamond pattern bracing underneath reminds me very much of the building in Turin which was used for the annual Italian motorshow each November, the same building was used in 'The Italian Job' back in the Summer of '68. Additionally, the track layout at Landor Street has been slewed over a bit to allow for one of the concrete supports to be erected between the down fast and the down goods lines. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DY444 Posted 9 hours ago Share Posted 9 hours ago (edited) 19 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said: True, but connections of which only specific types of service are able to use for interoperability with the classic network. Namely the Southeastern High Speed services and the small amount of freight work between the Channel Tunnel and Ripple Lane (if those night time freight paths are being used?). Otherwise HS1 is, as you agree, is an separate, independent network.. But surely interoperable services between the two networks is the whole point of a railway ostensibly built to boost capacity? Anyway I would argue it is specific train capabilities rather than specific types of service that dictate access to HS1. So let's say hypothetically, SE identified that up traffic on HS1 was very light before 0800 (I don't know if it actually is) and decided there was a viable business case for a couple of faster than now trains to Victoria or CX/CS in the morning peak. There is nothing in principle to stop them modifying their 375/6 fleet so that the pantographs are compatible with HS1, fitting TVM430, doing whatever is required for them to run at 100mph and running a couple of 12 car fast(er) trains non-stop from Ashford to Fawkham Jn via HS1. Before everybody piles in with reasons why this is impractical in real life - I know. The point I'm making is the only special thing about running on HS1 is the ole standard (for electric traction) and the signalling so in theory anything that satisfies those could run. Edited 9 hours ago by DY444 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted 2 hours ago RMweb Premium Share Posted 2 hours ago Another nice video of the Colne Valley viaduct. They have nearly finished removing the haul road and causeway from the northernmost lake and the long arches look stunning. The juxtaposition of the viaduct for 21st century transport, crossing an 18th century trunk route is thought provoking. Jamie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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