HS2

[Arun Sharma]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

But why?

Possibly because the Greens came second to Labour in forty seats. But seriously, as that nice Mr Harold Wilson used to say, "You know it makes sense". 

Even professional politicians get it right once in a while and the Northern legs are supported by the regional Mayors in Birmingham and Manchester and environs. 

[woodenhead]

2 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

But why?

 

50 minutes ago, Arun Sharma said:

Possibly because the Greens came second to Labour in forty seats. But seriously, as that nice Mr Harold Wilson used to say, "You know it makes sense". 

Even professional politicians get it right once in a while and the Northern legs are supported by the regional Mayors in Birmingham and Manchester and environs. 

I would imagine because it's now clear the mess it leaves the railways in with HS2 beyond Birmingham cancelled and if the greens want lorries off the road then there needs to be more containers shipped by rail.  Colwich is a massive bottleneck without HS2 extending north that will stop any expansion and might actually result in more lorries if nothing is done.

[jjb1970]

The Greens are transitioning from a small protest vote to a mainstream party, which is a very difficult one to make successfully.  Small protest parties tend to exist in echo chambers, feeding true believers with what they want. Once they go mainstream they have to consider problems seriously and solutions to try and keep things running which can maintain sufficient support among the public to avoid unrest or political wipe out. I expect they'll lose some of the ideological purists and be accused of 'selling out' but improve their standing with less ideological voters as they adjust to more pragmatic politics. So it makes sense they'd evolve their position on HS2, especially given that if you're going to spend that much and accept the environmental impact of construction you may as well make it useful.

[DenysW]

10 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

But why?

Because they are in opposition and they are opposing the present HS2 policy (OOC->Curzon St->OOC). They are also a party that likes spending.

 

This does not mean that @jjb1970 can't be correct as well.

[Ron Ron Ron]

6 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

The Greens are transitioning from a small protest vote to a mainstream party……

Only 6.4% of the vote at the General Election, on a turnout that saw almost half of the electorate not voting.

Their success in getting 4 seats in the HoC is largely put down to support from defecting far left Labour voters, the ex-Corbinistas, who see the current Labour Party as establishment Blairites.

 

The Greens today are mainly a left wing party (left of Labour), who also happen to have some very disjointed and sometimes contradictory, green policies.

All emotion, dogma and protest, with no pragmatic proposals, or solutions.

Whether they support HS2 or not, is neither here nor there in the big scheme of things.

 

 

.

[jjb1970]

1 minute ago, adb968008 said:

.. big protest vote

 

thats all.

 

I don't think it is. Environmental concerns are increasingly becoming one of the principal concerns of voters. Particularly (though certainly not exclusively) younger voters. 

[Phil Parker]

8 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

It would be interesting to know how much these HS2 videos cost.

 

looking at Youtube most get around 30-40k viewers and i’d hazard a large number of those are employees.

 

Is the cost justifiable for what is generating less viewings than most model railway announcements.

 

 

Videos like this are expected nowadays. The actual numbers may not matter, depending on who those viewers are. Impressing 3 people holding the purse strings is more important than half a million drooling into their pasty, at least in the short term. Also, the footage can then be lifted by media organisations who don't need to spend money on it, but have a ready to go postivie story on HS2.

 

[jamie92208]

Another video today from HS2 showing some real progress at the Delta Junction. 

It's interesting how quickly the deck structure has been completed on the first bridge. 

 

Jamie 

Edited September 10 by jamie92208

[Northmoor]

22 hours ago, Arun Sharma said:

Possibly because the Greens came second to Labour in forty seats. But seriously, as that nice Mr Harold Wilson used to say, "You know it makes sense". 

Even professional politicians get it right once in a while and the Northern legs are supported by the regional Mayors in Birmingham and Manchester and environs. 

Isn't the phrase, "Get elected in poetry, govern in prose"?

[david.hill64]

On 10/09/2024 at 04:33, KeithMacdonald said:

 

But why?

Change of government perhaps? No longer seen as necessary to oppose the government just because of who they are.

[62613]

On 09/09/2024 at 23:59, woodenhead said:

 

I would imagine because it's now clear the mess it leaves the railways in with HS2 beyond Birmingham cancelled and if the greens want lorries off the road then there needs to be more containers shipped by rail.  Colwich is a massive bottleneck without HS2 extending north that will stop any expansion and might actually result in more lorries if nothing is done.

Not just Colwich, but Stafford as well

[62613]

On 10/09/2024 at 09:08, Phil Parker said:

 

Videos like this are expected nowadays. The actual numbers may not matter, depending on who those viewers are. Impressing 3 people holding the purse strings is more important than half a million drooling into their pasty, at least in the short term. Also, the footage can then be lifted by media organisations who don't need to spend money on it, but have a ready to go postivie story on HS2.

 

Can you point to a media organisation which would post this uncritically? The printed media have almost universally been hostile to this project from day one, and their online offerings aren't much better (which explains a lot of the hostility among those less informed among the general public). The broadcast media haven't exactly been sympathetic, either. I've neither heard nor seen in any of them anything about the completion of the Colne Valley viaduct, for instance.

[APOLLO]

Like or dislike HS2, whatever your politics are etc there is a lot of very impressive and excellent cutting edge civil engineering going on at the moment keeping many people in employment in both the construction and supply side.  I am impressed with these videos on this thread but it is a shame so much of HS2 has been postponed or cancelled.

 

Brit15

 

 

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

Like or dislike HS2, whatever your politics are etc there is a lot of very impressive and excellent cutting edge civil engineering going on at the moment keeping many people in employment in both the construction and supply side.  I am impressed with these videos on this thread but it is a shame so much of HS2 has been postponed or cancelled.

 

Brit15

 

 

Given the recent issues regarding whether Euston is unsafe or not when crowded, the HS2 station should be growing out of the ground nicely by now which would be a good news story to all those who have to suffer the current constricted station site.

 

But of course, they cancelled that leaving passengers with an unknown duration of a sub standard station and a big hole next to it.

[APOLLO]

Oh! Mr Starmer, what shall I do?

I want to go further than Birmingham

Now they're not taking me on to Crewe,

Take me back to Wormwood Scrubs , as quickly as you can,

Oh! Mr Starmer, what a silly girl I am.

 

Brit15

[62613]

8 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

Oh! Mr Starmer, what shall I do?

I want to go further than Birmingham

Now they're not taking me on to Crewe,

Take me back to Wormwood Scrubs , as quickly as you can,

Oh! Mr Starmer, what a silly girl I am.

 

Brit15

Has he said something recently? Otherwise, HS2 is in the state it's in entirely because of decisions made by previous governments.

Edited September 11 by 62613

[phil-b259]

3 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Given the recent issues regarding whether Euston is unsafe or not when crowded, the HS2 station should be growing out of the ground nicely by now which would be a good news story to all those who have to suffer the current constricted station site.

 

But of course, they cancelled that leaving passengers with an unknown duration of a sub standard station and a big hole next to it.

 

The use of 'they' is inappropriate as it implies that the current decision makers are directly responsible for the situation.

 

In reality they decision to leave passengers with a substandard station etc was a political decision taken by the Conservatives for short term party political reasons and its not necessarily one that the current decision makers would have gone with had they been in Government at the time.

 

 

Edited September 11 by phil-b259

[woodenhead]

47 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

The use of 'they' is inappropriate as it implies that the current decision makers are directly responsible for the situation.

 

In reality they decision to leave passengers with a substandard station etc was a political decision taken by the Conservatives for short term party political reasons and its not necessarily one that the current decision makers would have gone with had they been in Government at the time.

 

 

Except if I started labelling political parties then the post would be technically political.

 

We all know who did it and I am not trying to alter history so please don't pick an argument for the sake of a word, it's just a word and there was nothing implied in it that would alter facts as they are.

[corneliuslundie]

Sorry, I didn't mean to start another political discussion by posting the Green Party item. It was just meant as a statement of something which had happened.

Jonathan

[APOLLO]

7 hours ago, 62613 said:

Has he said something recently? Otherwise, HS2 is in the state it's in entirely because of decisions made by previous governments.

 

He has said nothing, but it will be interesting to see what, if anything, he says about HS2 in the coming months.

 

Brit15

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 

He has said nothing, but it will be interesting to see what, if anything, he says about HS2 in the coming months.

 

Brit15

He has said nothing but several senior figures in his party have said quite a lot (in favour of HS 2) in recent months although none of them are involved (AFAIK) in national Govt but are very prominent in local Govt..   

[jamie92208]

Perhaps the party conference season or the budget will bring some clarity.  After all even if Phase2 is given the go ahead this end there won't be any major cash outflow for at least a year or two. 

 

Jamie 

[62613]

21 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 

He has said nothing, but it will be interesting to see what, if anything, he says about HS2 in the coming months.

 

Brit15

Got a chance to ask our MP (government front bench) what he thinks next Thursday. Probably get fobbed off with a non - answer, but we'll see!

[Ron Ron Ron]

The optics of announcing  a restart for Phase 2, would not be good at the present time.

Imagine the MSM having a field day criticising such a move, when pensioners are losing the Winter Fuel Allowance and there’s now speculation that the single occupancy Council Tax discount and bus passes are next in line for the chop !

[DenysW]

44 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

The optics of announcing  a restart for Phase 2, would not be good at the present time.

Agreed. But the lunacy that is the Euston end and mothballing expensive tunnelling machines until a resolution happens might get resolved.