HS2

[melmerby]

On 11/07/2024 at 18:55, mac1960 said:

Stationmaster

Well I am a little too old for the playroom and not a politician, but making the trains longer is precisely what they have done to my local services here in Yorkshire to avoid congestion and lengthened the platforms to suit as well. Also as you will know I presume overseas ICE and Bullet and TGV are sometimes very long in comparison with the UK counterparts when multiple rakes linked together.

 

Also on costs and budget slowing HS2 rail speed down would have saved on some construction cost we are told, was it essential to have the fastest in Europe ?

Lengthening trains above the 12 car 350/ 11 car Pendolino length would cause all sorts of problems on the WCML as many stations are hemmed in by the surrounding buildings and other infrastructure. That would mean lots of demolition, or other drastic actions to make the room, which would be politically unacceptable. Also it does not provide the extra capacity required for other services, passenger or freight.

Another regularly rolled out suggestion instead of building HS2 is to run more trains, sadly not enough track space, if it was possible, it would have been done.

The last suggestion is to build two more tracks alongside the WCML, again due to the level of demolition required and horrendous costs would also be politically unacceptable.

Hence HS2 which is the equivalent of the two more tracks alongside the WCML but largely running through green fields (or tunnels!)

 

As to the top speed, it is nothing out of the ordinary, most of the more recent European high speed trains are around 350/360km/h.

HS2 the same scheduled speed of 360km/h, as that of the Frecciarossa 1000. (which actually has a top speed of 400km/h)

 

 

 

Edited July 12 by melmerby

[Ron Ron Ron]

HS2 Ltd report that excavation of the Old Oak Common station box is now complete, allowing the final sections of concrete base slab to be poured and last bits of structural work to be finalised.

 

https://mediacentre.hs2.org.uk/news/hs2s-old-oak-common-station-box-excavation-complete

 

 

These photos should just a section of the, just over half a mile long, station box

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[melmerby]

You can really appreciate the scale of it with all those workmen in view

Edited July 13 by melmerby

[melmerby]

21 hours ago, melmerby said:

Frecciarossa 1000

Mentioning that, the interior of that and the Spanish version Iryo, really put to shame the interiors of the current fleet of cattle trucks being rolled out across the UK (class 8XX)

Sadly UK trains are well behind their European counterparts for quality of seats and fittings these days.

[Ron Ron Ron]

17 hours ago, melmerby said:

You can really appreciate the scale of it with all those workmen in view

Indeed.….and that’s only looking at a short section of the (over half mile long) station box.

 

(850 metres = 0.528 miles).

 

 

.

[jamie92208]

A good video of the area between Balsall and Burton Green,  Things are really coming  on. 

 

Jamie

[figworthy]

11 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

A good video of the area between Balsall and Burton Green,  Things are really coming  on. 

 

Jamie

 

Good to see the progress.

 

Do we know what is happening with the track bed as it leaves Burton Green (start/finish of the video) ?  Is it going to be a long tunnel, or will it stay as it is, which appears to be a concrete trench ?

 

Adrian

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, figworthy said:

 

Good to see the progress.

 

Do we know what is happening with the track bed as it leaves Burton Green (start/finish of the video) ?  Is it going to be a long tunnel, or will it stay as it is, which appears to be a concrete trench ?

 

Adrian

As far as I know only the part through the village will be covered.  The rest will be that semi open cutting to reduce noise but not actually tunne. What you can see now is how it will look but I suspect there will be earth on either side. 

 

Jamie

[Ron Ron Ron]

On 15/07/2024 at 20:14, figworthy said:

 

Good to see the progress.

 

Do we know what is happening with the track bed as it leaves Burton Green (start/finish of the video) ?  Is it going to be a long tunnel, or will it stay as it is, which appears to be a concrete trench ?

 

Adrian

 

The southern (London bound) end is supposed to look like this.....

(note, you can make out the already complete southern portal, as seen in the YouTube videos)

 

 

 

As Jamie says, the northern (Birmingham bound) end will transition from tunnel, to a semi-open, concrete cutting, once clear of the village.

The difference in construction between the tunnel and cutting, is noticeable in the drone videos.

 

Beyond the concrete cutting, there will be concrete walls to cut down o noise (for whatever reason, as it's in open countryside at that point?).

 

 

 

Cromwell Lane will be reinstated along its original path and a new bridge will be built, taking the lane across the Kenilworth Greenway, which will run on top of the cut & cover tunnel....

 

Have a look at these HS2 Ltd links, for more details......

 

https://assets.hs2.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Final-Burton-Green-KDE-Boards-March-2022.pdf

 

https://www.hs2.org.uk/building-hs2/tunnels/green-tunnels/burton-green-tunnel/

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited July 17 by Ron Ron Ron

[Ron Ron Ron]

Copthall Tunnel to West Ruislip....

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Who's going to clean all those windows ?

 

 

 

 

 

.

[jamie92208]

Keith Hofmeister has posted another of his Chiltern Society updates.  Of particular interest about what he mentions as a near two year delay in constructing the green tunnel near Wendover. However despite the soporific commentary there is some good stuff. 

 

Jamie

[corneliuslundie]

If those windows are acrylic they will get scratched pretty quickly by passing dust etc when it is windy.

Why are they needed?

Jonathan

[david.hill64]

35 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

If those windows are acrylic they will get scratched pretty quickly by passing dust etc when it is windy.

Why are they needed?

Jonathan

As a guess a noise mitigation measure that attempts to give passengers something other than a drab concrete wall to look at.

 

One of the issues in going above 200mph is that aerodynamic noise becomes more of an issue, hence environmental protection measures.

[Michael Hodgson]

12 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

As far as I know only the part through the village will be covered.  The rest will be that semi open cutting to reduce noise but not actually tunne. What you can see now is how it will look but I suspect there will be earth on either side. 

 

Jamie

If the line's in a cutting there'll be a pretty boring view out of the windows. 

Not that you'd see much anyway if the train is travelling at high speed.

[jamie92208]

22 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

If the line's in a cutting there'll be a pretty boring view out of the windows. 

Not that you'd see much anyway if the train is travelling at high speed.

However, certainly the part nearest the village is quite a deep cutting so the concrete box will take less space than a traditional cutting built to Modern standards with shallow slopes. 

 

In the meantime, HS2 Have just posted this.  The bridge has featured in quite a few videos. 

I

Jamie 

 

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

19 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

If the line's in a cutting there'll be a pretty boring view out of the windows. 

Not that you'd see much anyway if the train is travelling at high speed.

 

There won't be much of a view, in fact any view, for nearly half the journey between London and Birmingham.

Tor example, between London and the other side of the Chilterns, the time above ground in the open air will be less than 2 minutes, but for a large part of that, the view will be restricted by barriers of one sort or another.

Along the rest of the route, there are several tunnels and elsewhere the line will run in cuttings or behind earth barriers for a fair distance.

Take a good book or an iPad, when it opens.

 

 

.

[Compound2632]

Looking out of the window at high speed isn't entirely good for one's wellbeing. This has been recognised since at least the early 70s, with, in Britain, the sills of the windows of Mk 2 and Mk 3 carriages being higher than of earlier stock, with the specific intention of forcing the passenger's line of sight further into the distance.

Edited July 16 by Compound2632

[Michael Hodgson]

I hope the driver's still going to be looking out of the window.

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I hope the driver's still going to be looking out of the window.

 

Looking forward is different, physiologically, from looking sideways to the direction of motion. 

 

Bu I do wonder what benefit there is to the driver looking forward at high speed, given viewing distance and reaction time.

[phil-b259]

16 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Looking forward is different, physiologically, from looking sideways to the direction of motion. 

 

Bu I do wonder what benefit there is to the driver looking forward at high speed, given viewing distance and reaction time.

 

Not much - but it should be remembered that aside from Birmingham - London services, trains using HS2 will be venturing onto the classic rail network where the view forward is going to be important.

[phil-b259]

34 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

 

Take a good book or an iPad, when it opens.

.

 

Which is what 99% of the public do when catching trains today anyway!

[melmerby]

30 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I do wonder what benefit there is to the driver looking forward at high speed, given viewing distance and reaction time.

He can't do anything meaningful at 300kp/h +

[Northmoor]

9 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Which is what 99% of the public do when catching trains today anyway!

I think it was Virgin Trains who did a passenger survey when they first gained the WCML & XC (so over a quarter century ago) and found that only a small proportion of passengers stated that they spent more than a tiny amount of their journey time looking out of the window.  Which is why the BR Networker was probably the last train design where any effort was made to align seats with windows.

[lmsforever]

A very interesting film  why he moaned about the buildings above the air vents they will be hidden by the woods and will cause no problems ,but why a tunnel  is being built alongside Wendover a cutting will suffice .When you see the work to the right as you descend into the town you realise just what is happening how big a project this is.Its a shame that the diversion road will not be staying as its a pleasent way to drive into town.