HS2

[melmerby]

Spain seems to have done pretty well, 2000+ miles of standard gauge high speed rail all in a country with a GDP half that of the UK.

[APOLLO]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

This may sound trite, but that level of debt for 40,000Km of high-speed railway and all associated equipment is a bargain, that works out at about $22,500 per Km, which is $22.50 per metre. I'm guessing the UK rail industry might have the occasional crazy dream of getting anywhere near such a figure. And at the end of it at least they have a huge high speed rail network which have shrunk the country with lower emissions than relying on air transport going forward and something they can be proud of. If you're going to run up debt then that's one of the better reasons I can think of.

 

I quite agree. It's not exactly like a train set you can pack up in it's box. It is a national asset to be proud of and I am sure in future years it will no doubt be very well used and dare I say it profitable.

 

With climate change, energy etc always in the news a major factor in future years will be investment in railways around the world. The Chinese seem to be the masters of rail investment globally at this time, like the UK & USA was in the 1800's. Good luck to them with this even though their politics stink.

 

So it was good to hear in the UK budget the will to carry on with HS2 & Northern Powerhouse Rail, whatever that will be as I have yet to see anything like a detailed plan.

 

I look forward (age 70) to travelling one day on HS2.

 

Brit15

[woodenhead]

29 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Spain seems to have done pretty well, 2000+ miles of standard gauge high speed rail all in a country with a GDP half that of the UK.

Spain has a lot of infrastructure built with EU money that ended up unused.

https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2018/06/22/corruption-and-bad-planning-has-seen-almost-e100-billion-wasted-on-unnecessary-infrastructure-projects-in-spain/

 

https://www.worldfinance.com/strategy/government-policy/spains-infrastructure-woes-are-more-serious-than-they-appear

Edited November 19, 2022 by woodenhead

[jamie92208]

42 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

I quite agree. It's not exactly like a train set you can pack up in it's box. It is a national asset to be proud of and I am sure in future years it will no doubt be very well used and dare I say it profitable.

 

With climate change, energy etc always in the news a major factor in future years will be investment in railways around the world. The Chinese seem to be the masters of rail investment globally at this time, like the UK & USA was in the 1800's. Good luck to them with this even though their politics stink.

 

So it was good to hear in the UK budget the will to carry on with HS2 & Northern Powerhouse Rail, whatever that will be as I have yet to see anything like a detailed plan.

 

I look forward (age 70) to travelling one day on HS2.

 

Brit15

I will be in my late 70's by the time it opens and hope to travel on it.

 

Jamie

Edited November 19, 2022 by jamie92208

[jamie92208]

Just found this video which deals with thecHS2/EWR crossing. I'd firgotten about the maintenance  depot.  The bridge is definitely  taking shape.

 

Jamie

[jjb1970]

For balance, Chinese HSR projects can also go over budget, as experienced by Indonesia. Though it's also true that program delivery seems to be going well given COVID interruptions and the cost is still very reasonable.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/indonesias-china-funded-rail-project-track-despite-cost-overrun-2022-10-13/

[melmerby]

7 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

the cost is still very reasonable.

Probably nothing like the real cost as China wants to increase it's political influence anywhere it can and is prepared to pay  big for that influence

[jjb1970]

All countries use trade to peddle influence, China is no different to any other country in that respect. As a good friend of mine likes to say, there's no o such thing as being half an pregnant.

[melmerby]

5 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

All countries use trade to peddle influence, China is no different to any other country in that respect. As a good friend of mine likes to say, there's no o such thing as being half an pregnant.

But China is different, it is politically aggressive when trying to influence local politics.

Most countries don't set up clandestine secret police stations in the countries they sell (and even not sell) to.

Chinese investment is not benign.

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by melmerby

[Ron Ron Ron]

We've not seen much in the way of photos showing progress on Phase 1, north of Birmingham.

 

Wood End Lane, north of Lichfield....

 

 

 

 

Cappers Lane, east of Lichfield.......

 

 

 

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

A view of work on the Victoria Road crossover box.

The ventilation shaft is in the foreground, with the box site just above it, in the photo.

You can make out the Old Oak Common station site in the near distance, in line with the Victoria Road work, to the right of the Crossrail depot roof, just above the covered conveyor that takes excavation and tunnelling spoil away to the loading depot at Willesden, to the north (off to the left of shot).

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[jjb1970]

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

But China is different, it is politically aggressive when trying to influence local politics.

Most countries don't set up clandestine secret police stations in the countries they sell (and even not sell) to.

Chinese investment is not benign.

 

 

Chinese overseas investment tends to be very transactional. They arrange finance (despite a lot of negative comment in our media their finance packages are generally very competitive) and will deliver infrastructure with much less interference in local affairs than European or US rivals. The Indonesian HSR is a case in point, Indonesia wanted a high-speed railway, China made a bid which included a finance package, design, construction and technical assistance to Indonesia which Indonesia considered better than the Japanese alternative. One reason many countries like working with China is the transactional nature of their approach to things. In terms of being politically aggressive, again there's no such thing as being half-pregnant and I really don't see China as being any worse than others.

[Solderpete]

How far north of Birmingham has work been started on phase 2A to Crewe?

Is there anything to see yet near Stafford or Crewe?
It is interesting to see the photos of the work progressing north of Lichfield.  Thank you.

[rockershovel]

.... but look at Chinese activities in Sub Saharan Africa. China builds the railway and/or port and provides finance conditional upon future production.

 

A large Chinese workforce arrives to build the project. Few leave when it is complete. Some stay to operate it. 

 

The local government finds that they do not have effective control of the facility. They NOW find that the Chinese are, in effect dictating production policy for national resources. 

 

By now, the civil authorities have given up trying to control the de-facto independent enclave of the Chinese population...

 

 

[rockershovel]

I recently saw a programme on one of the streaming channels, about a Chinese company which has taken over a US manufacturer producing glass for car manufacture. 

 

It isn't going well. The locals aren't interested in the very long hours the Chinese would prefer (the notorious 996, 9am till 9pm 6 days a week plus unlimited compulsory overtime.

 

It's worth finding. 

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, Solderpete said:

How far north of Birmingham has work been started on phase 2A to Crewe?

Is there anything to see yet near Stafford or Crewe?
It is interesting to see the photos of the work progressing north of Lichfield.  Thank you.

From Water Orton (to the east of Birmingham) up to Handsacre (just north  of Lichfield) is all part of Phase One, with similar levels of work being carried out, as between London and Birmingham.

 

As far as I’m aware (and that’s not much), between Lichfield and Crewe, current Phase Two work is mostly along the lines of environmental mitigation projects, detailed ground investigations, early preparatory work to provide access for contractors, enabling road projects and some early work on relocating services etc.

In other words, not much to see, in the way of large earth workings or construction of structures just yet.

 

.

[Shed]

On 08/11/2022 at 21:02, ess1uk said:

How’s progress around Brackley and north of?

a compound on the A43 is all i have seen, not much else

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, rockershovel said:

They NOW find that the Chinese are, in effect dictating production policy for national resources. 

If it's the one I'm thinking about, it was to secure Chinese control over the copper production.

[Fat Controller]

31 minutes ago, melmerby said:

If it's the one I'm thinking about, it was to secure Chinese control over the copper production.

Was that the Tan- Zam line?

[melmerby]

2 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Was that the Tan- Zam line?

Or Tazara. Tanzania Zambia Railway

[Fat Controller]

30 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Or Tazara. Tanzania Zambia Railway

I was remembering it from A-level Geography, which was alarmingly long time ago (1973) . I think they had just started construction.

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, Fat Controller said:

I was remembering it from A-level Geography, which was alarmingly long time ago (1973) . I think they had just started construction.

And according to a programme thstvI watched, possibly o evof Chris Tarrants train journeys, they didn't maintain it very well.

 

Jamie

[APOLLO]

4 hours ago, melmerby said:

If it's the one I'm thinking about, it was to secure Chinese control over the copper production.

 

As we say in Wigan "They don't do owt for nowt"

 

Brit25

[melmerby]

4 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

And according to a programme thstvI watched, possibly o evof Chris Tarrants train journeys, they didn't maintain it very well.

 

Jamie

Traffic went downhill quite fast after a moderate start but did pick up a little in more recent times.

Never got near to it's projected capacity.

[Ron Ron Ron]

 

 

 

.