People Messaging me with offers

[Colin_McLeod]

I only once arranged for a buyer to collect an item and pay cash but never again.  When he came to collect he started to haggle for a reduced price knowing that if I didnt accept I would have the bother of relisting. Thankfully it was only a low value bit of Hornby track with a price of €23. I accepted his haggling offer of €20 to get rid of him and move on.  The E bay fee was based on the original €23. 

 

As I said small value so not worth any hassle but not taking a chance on something more expensive so it is posting only now.

[Hal Nail]

41 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

I only once arranged for a buyer to collect an item and pay cash but never again.  When he came to collect he started to haggle for a reduced price knowing that if I didnt accept I would have the bother of relisting. Thankfully it was only a low value bit of Hornby track with a price of €23. I accepted his haggling offer of €20 to get rid of him and move on.  The E bay fee was based on the original €23. 

 

As I said small value so not worth any hassle but not taking a chance on something more expensive so it is posting only now.

That's always been my fear especially as I dont really relish that sort of chat. I've picked up and handed over high value O gauge locos though, as felt less risky than post. In future I will state up front i want a written receipt from the buyer - i'm sure anyone genuine would understand.

 

To some extent if someone wants to defraud you, I suspect there are ways whatever method you use. You just hope its rare. 

[hayfield]

15 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Equally true when selling anything over 50 quid if you want to send it fully insured. At around 10% it's a bit of a deal breaker.

 

I do not sell many items which start over £50, or I think will go over £50. I think most folk bidding do as I do, work out what the maximum the item is worth to me, deduct P&P and bid accordingly. For something like a loco I charge between £5 & £6 P&P for first class. If something goes over £60 (I take the chance at £50-60 of recorded as costs will be recouped if lost) I am happy to pay either £7.40 or £8.70, which is only either £1.40 or £2.70 more than £6 P&P, not being greedy I have made more on the deal. Never myself felt charging the going rate for postage affected sales, but who knows

[Hal Nail]

8 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

I do not sell many items which start over £50, or I think will go over £50. I think most folk bidding do as I do, work out what the maximum the item is worth to me, deduct P&P and bid accordingly. For something like a loco I charge between £5 & £6 P&P for first class. If something goes over £60 (I take the chance at £50-60 of recorded as costs will be recouped if lost) I am happy to pay either £7.40 or £8.70, which is only either £1.40 or £2.70 more than £6 P&P, not being greedy I have made more on the deal. Never myself felt charging the going rate for postage affected sales, but who knows

You are spot on, I'm losing sight of the fact it is only a few quid increment for the insured postage - which is for my benefit really - and I should just absorb that in my expectation of what I'll get

[Phaeton]

51 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

That's always been my fear especially as I dont really relish that sort of chat. I've picked up and handed over high value O gauge locos though, as felt less risky than post. In future I will state up front i want a written receipt from the buyer - i'm sure anyone genuine would understand.

 

To some extent if someone wants to defraud you, I suspect there are ways whatever method you use. You just hope its rare. 

 

Unfortunately it won't help you as Paypoo want an independent electronic method, if it's collection it's cash only, that is your only protection, I always refund Paypoo if they send it through for collection.

[Colin_McLeod]

25 minutes ago, Phaeton said:

 

Unfortunately it won't help you as Paypoo want an independent electronic method, if it's collection it's cash only, that is your only protection, I always refund Paypoo if they send it through for collection.

 

What is Paypoo?

 

Sounds rather childish to me.

[Phaeton]

17 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

What is Paypoo?

 

Sounds rather childish to me.

 

And you point is?

[Colin_McLeod]

My point is if you are referring to PayPal, then call it PayPal.

 

Caling it Paypoo is like calling your trains Choo Choos.

 

Though of course, maybe you do call them Choo Choos in which case you are at least consistent.

 

 

Enjoy the hobby.

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

You are spot on, I'm losing sight of the fact it is only a few quid increment for the insured postage - which is for my benefit really - and I should just absorb that in my expectation of what I'll get

 

Hal Nail

 

I think as railway modellers we are quite lucky, with few exceptions both buyers and sellers are honest and reliable buyers and sellers, plus the items we buy/sell lend themselves to being sent via normal postal systems.

 

About 10 years ago the Royal Mail woke up to the opportunities of online selling and increased small package rates considerably, having said this they probably realigned their prices to similar commercial competition, still with few exceptions the prices are quite reasonable

 

You could offer free postage, but it will not work on low value items and there is no guarantee you would get higher prices. Most of us now buy online and are used t0 paying P&P

 

Most buyers accept postal rates. I recently sold a lot of 15 old wagon and coach wheels for £1.04, I explained postage would be £4 due to sending them in a small packet. I was just happy someone could use them, by the time fees were taken into consideration I guess I made a few pence, the aim was to recycle not make money, postage was just under 400%. With postage just look at the bigger picture, which was 15 (metal) wheels for a fiver

[polybear]

3 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

I only once arranged for a buyer to collect an item and pay cash but never again.  When he came to collect he started to haggle for a reduced price knowing that if I didnt accept I would have the bother of relisting. Thankfully it was only a low value bit of Hornby track with a price of €23. I accepted his haggling offer of €20 to get rid of him and move on.  The E bay fee was based on the original €23. 

 

As I said small value so not worth any hassle but not taking a chance on something more expensive so it is posting only now.

 

I would've refused I think - if he wants to waste time and petrol just to lose a purchase for three quid (euros?) then that's his loss. He was taking the p1ss

 

edit:  had someone who recently tried it on, claiming a ten quid leccy drill didn't work on receipt (I knew it did) and made a claim via Ebay, whilst ignoring messages from me.  I reckon he thought I'd back down and refund the cost (postage was another six quid); a paypal returns label was just over 3 quid, strangely (not sure it would've covered the weight?) but he never bothered to use it and I heard no more - paypal closed the case and as the label was never used I didn't get charged for it.  My guess is he was after it for nought, but it didn't work  

Edited March 12, 2020 by polybear

[Phaeton]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

I think as railway modellers we are quite lucky, with few exceptions both buyers and sellers are honest and reliable buyers and sellers, plus the items we buy/sell lend themselves to being sent via normal postal systems.

 

I'm going through a bit of a strange one currently, I sent an N Gauge loco First Class Signed for, after 14 days I got an message from the buyer saying there might be a problem, but it was the wording that set my senses going, not quite sure what it is but it doesn't seem right. I'd given the tracking number & looking online it shows that it never left the PO I dropped it in at, no further tracking. He's now raised a dispute whilst I was on holiday, I advised him I couldn't put a claim into RM until I got home. I've since raised the claim & offered him a refund, but not heard anything since, I have a sneaking suspicion that it's been delivered without signature, no evidence to this effect just the wording.

 

My fault for not fully insuring it, but I will lose £15 on the sale price, plus my ebay, Paypal fees, and my RM fees.

[Hal Nail]

19 minutes ago, Phaeton said:

 

I'm going through a bit of a strange one currently, I sent an N Gauge loco First Class Signed for, after 14 days I got an message from the buyer saying there might be a problem, but it was the wording that set my senses going, not quite sure what it is but it doesn't seem right. I'd given the tracking number & looking online it shows that it never left the PO I dropped it in at, no further tracking. He's now raised a dispute whilst I was on holiday, I advised him I couldn't put a claim into RM until I got home. I've since raised the claim & offered him a refund, but not heard anything since, I have a sneaking suspicion that it's been delivered without signature, no evidence to this effect just the wording.

 

My fault for not fully insuring it, but I will lose £15 on the sale price, plus my ebay, Paypal fees, and my RM fees.

I was handed something by the postman I was meant to sign for. I then had the seller demanding I release funds a few days later as paypal were waiting for proof of delivery. (Seemed odd - I receive funds before sending). Given he sent it 2nd class having charged me 1st, I figured was karma!

Edited March 12, 2020 by Hal Nail

[Blandford1969]

3 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

You are spot on, I'm losing sight of the fact it is only a few quid increment for the insured postage - which is for my benefit really - and I should just absorb that in my expectation of what I'll get

My only comment on that would be I had sent £60 of slides by special delivery. They never arrived and the post office said for me to get anything I needed to prove how much had been paid for them, which is difficult when you have had something for some time.

[Iain.d]

On 11/03/2020 at 19:06, Re6/6 said:

I have always added this to all my auctions.......

 

"Please note that there is no 'buy-it-now' price on this item".

 

...... so I've never had an e-mail....

I think I’m watching one of your items at the moment!!!

 

Iain

[hayfield]

33 minutes ago, Phaeton said:

 

I'm going through a bit of a strange one currently, I sent an N Gauge loco First Class Signed for, after 14 days I got an message from the buyer saying there might be a problem, but it was the wording that set my senses going, not quite sure what it is but it doesn't seem right. I'd given the tracking number & looking online it shows that it never left the PO I dropped it in at, no further tracking. He's now raised a dispute whilst I was on holiday, I advised him I couldn't put a claim into RM until I got home. I've since raised the claim & offered him a refund, but not heard anything since, I have a sneaking suspicion that it's been delivered without signature, no evidence to this effect just the wording.

 

My fault for not fully insuring it, but I will lose £15 on the sale price, plus my ebay, Paypal fees, and my RM fees.

 

If you went through the correct dispute method all your eBay and most of the Paypal fees will be refunded, plus the Royal Mail will pay up to the maximum insured level if under insured plus refund the cost of postage. On the two items I have claimed on I ended up being very slightly better off than it it arrived safely. I would always claim from the Royal Mail and let their own security decide on the honesty of the buyer

 

As for when you go from recorded to special delivery, £60 is my cut off, once you take into consideration refund of all eBay & Paypal fees and postage into account. The savings made from the majority of safe postings more than covers any potential loss

[friscopete]

Its all part of business really .I have made offers and received offers .No one has to accept  but often I do and so do sellers.You have to be careful with ebay .Once a well respected narrow gauger tried to scam  me by saying he could get the damaged loco  repaired for a heftyish  sum which I was supposed to reimburse.I told him to send it back  for a refund as I could solder the wire in about 20 seconds and put it back for sale .Never heard another word .

[polybear]

7 hours ago, Phaeton said:

 

I'm going through a bit of a strange one currently, I sent an N Gauge loco First Class Signed for, after 14 days I got an message from the buyer saying there might be a problem, but it was the wording that set my senses going, not quite sure what it is but it doesn't seem right. I'd given the tracking number & looking online it shows that it never left the PO I dropped it in at, no further tracking. He's now raised a dispute whilst I was on holiday, I advised him I couldn't put a claim into RM until I got home. I've since raised the claim & offered him a refund, but not heard anything since, I have a sneaking suspicion that it's been delivered without signature, no evidence to this effect just the wording.

 

My fault for not fully insuring it, but I will lose £15 on the sale price, plus my ebay, Paypal fees, and my RM fees.

 

It could be that matey boy has received it and seen that the tracking hasn't worked in this instance, so is trying it on.  Was it worth more than you insured it for?

All you can do is block the buyer from bidding on any future listings you have.  It would be good if RM can come up with proof of delivery though - I'd give them a chance before refunding, as if they do and you've already paid up you'll be well out of pocket..

[GWR-fan]

Many times I believe that buyers are their worst nightmare.  Over the last fifteen years the average selling price of thousands of sales on eBay have averaged over $100.00 Aud.  Many times when the package exceeded $300.00 I questioned the buyer if he wished either signature on delivery or perhaps insurance as well.  The response has mostly been no thanks.  The other day I had a buyer who had only paid for standard post,  demand that I send the item signature on delivery.  He did not offer to cover the additional cost, $2.95.  Fortunately,  I have a very compliant postmaster/mistress who is quite generous in not charging the full post office website calculated cost of items so the actual cost was around $2.00 less than paid so I included signature on delivery with me paying the additional cost.

 

Two days ago I posted a package exceeding $400.00 Aud in value.  I messaged the buyer about signature on delivery and insurance costing an additional $10.50,  but he declined.  In the past on a high value package I have included insurance at my own cost as a form of personal protection for me,  irrespective of the buyer's wishes.  Australia Post tracks every package sent,  not including letters and the service has never let me down.  Oddly in thousands of transactions delivery has failed to occur twice and it was the same person on both occasions.  Firstly, the package was delivered to his local post office and he failed to pick it up.  When I advised him to check the post office,  sure enough the package was waiting for him.  The second occasion he had to leave home unexpectedly for over three weeks due a death in the family and the package was returned to me from the post office due failure to collect within the timeframe for collection.  Every package sent has reached its destination so buyers get complacent and refuse to pay for additional services that protect both them and myself.

 

Now to legalities.  Regardless of what most eBay sellers state that once posted the seller is not responsible for loss,  the opposite is true.  Under common law the post office is termed a "common carrier".  The seller and the post office on exchange of a fee enter into a contract to deliver the goods contracted for.   Now while the post office is obliged to deliver the goods then if they can show that they took all steps to actually deliver the item but the package was lost in transit then oddly they are not legally responsible for any loss.  Legally,  the seller is obliged to make good for items lost in transit and cannot offload that responsibility onto the carrier, in this case the post office.  Thus insurance can be an asset,  though 99.9% of buyers see it as an unneccessary expense.  I have even found that when I include signature on delivery to a listing's postage cost then sales drop off markedly as buyers are not willing to pay the additional $2.95 cost.  They are willing to outlay several hundred dollars on an item but baulk at the $2.95 cost that covers both them and myself.

 

While on the topic of buyers,  an issue that while it peeves me off,  I live with the additional cost to me.  For some reason buyers like to buy single items and pay the postage fee for each item and then message me to combine postage or just expect that I will.  A very few actually add to the cart and then request a combined postage invoice.    EBay charges a 10% fee on all postage paid plus a 10% GST on that postage cost.  Now when a person makes multiple singular payments the cost to me increases unnecessarily as I always combine and then refund the difference between actual cost of postage and the total amount the buyer pays. EBAy never refunds me when I refund postage costs.    Often this results in an additional fee of several dollars  incurred.  I cannot claim back from the buyer as when I post items the exact cost of postage is printed on the package with the post office receipt and the buyer knows exactly the total amount paid by them for postage and expect that I will refund the difference.    I have even had buyers complain of a $0.05 difference not refunded in postage costs.   In hundreds of refunds made I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of buyers who have acknowledged receipt of a refund.

[hayfield]

Whilst what you say is correct for where you are, here in the UK things are different

 

Ebay's main protection for buyers is its Money Back Guarantee service. This was launched last year, and promises to refund the buyer with the cost of an item if it does not arrive or is not as described. If such a refund is made the seller has the money deducted from their account.18 Oct 2014

 

In addition there are EU distance selling rights

 

The Distance Selling Regulations state that your right to cancel an order starts from the moment you place your order, and doesn’t end until seven working days from the day after you receive your goods.  have a right to cancel your order within a seven day cooling-off period.

 

As a buyer I totally ignore anything bought on eBay which states the buyer is responsible for postal deliveries. If I buy an item which fails to turn up I claim a refund via eBay & Paypal, end of !!!! Its up to the seller to use the appropriate postal service. What happens between the seller and these two companies is up to them

 

What many forget when buying from ebay the buyer and seller enter a contract under eBay's terms

 

As a seller I refund after 7 days, I claim the loss from the Royal Mail via their compensation and use eBay's and Paypal's system to reclaim my fees. If the Royal Mail suspects fraud I will be straight on to eBay & Paypal expecting a financial recompense 

[GWR-fan]

A friend who is a collector of LGB (Lehmann Grossbahn) products purchased a $1000.00  Mogul sound loco from a U.S. seller.  The loco arrived with a small amount of cosmetic damage plus the battery in the sound system had leaked onto the sound system circuit board causing a little damage.  The cosmetic damage was easily repaired but the sound system caused the bell to sound continuously while the loco ran.  The buyer (my friend)  raised a dispute for an item received not as described and awaited an outcome.  The seller was informed that he had to pay the return postage to the U.S.,  around $120.00 at the time.  The seller refused to pay up the return postage so eBay compensated my friend for his total outlay including the original postage paid and told him to keep the goods.  Thus he had a fully functional locomotive worth over $1000.00 with an annoying habit of the bell continually ringing.  He picked up a replacement sound board in Germany for $60.00 and had the loco running perfectly.  EBay buyer protection does work.

 

I used it once buying twelve Hornby maroon Gresley super detail coaches from a UK seller.  The goods as it turned out were incorrectly sent to Gibraltar.  Fortunately,   the gentleman in Gibraltar was honest and contacted me informing me that he had my goods.  At first I believed the message a scam and ignored it.  The gentleman contacted me again so I contacted the seller in the UK advising him of the message received,  but no response.  I then contacted the seller on numerous further occasions informing him that he had incorrectly addressed my goods but he failed to respond on every occasion.  I even told him where my goods where and the person who had my goods eBay name as he was awaiting goods from the same seller that never arrived as well.  He made no attempt to contact the buyer on Gibraltar about my goods incorrectly received.  We both raised a dispute with eBay and were compensated.  I used most of my compensation money to have the items airmail shipped from Gibraltar and they arrived in short time.  The gentleman on Gibraltar refused to receive compensation from me for his honesty and his time and trouble.  He could have quite easily retained the goods for sale and I would have been none the wiser.  He also could have retained the money I sent him to pay for the airmail postage but he showed his complete honesty.  I believe that he was an ex-pat UK military man.  The UK seller,  well his eBay account received numerous negative feedback from many, many buyers like me left out of pocket.  Up until then he had a stellar record on eBay but his responses on any neutral or negative feedback received were not very complimentary.  Oddly,  he started selling again a few months later under the same name.   He would list numerous items totalling several hundred listings at a time all ending on the same night which must have caused him a nightmare getting all the addresses correct.  I do not believe he intentionally scammed people but was overwhelmed by the number of listings he had each auction, plus possibly personal issues further complicating matters.  He had been doing multiple listings for many years so there must have been an issue this time to cause so many people to raise disputes with him for items not received.  He should have staggered the listing end times so that not all ended at the same time.  I was content in that I had what I paid for but it was a long journey that ended well only because of a UK gentleman's complete honesty half a world away.

Edited March 14, 2020 by GWR-fan
Additional information

[Crosland]

14 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

Now to legalities.  Regardless of what most eBay sellers state that once posted the seller is not responsible for loss,  the opposite is true.

 

Indeed, the seller is responsible.

 

14 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

Thus insurance can be an asset,  though 99.9% of buyers see it as an unneccessary expense.  I have even found that when I include signature on delivery to a listing's postage cost then sales drop off markedly as buyers are not willing to pay the additional $2.95 cost.  They are willing to outlay several hundred dollars on an item but baulk at the $2.95 cost that covers both them and myself.

 

See above, it is an asset to, and covers, only the seller, not both parties.

 

[GWR-fan]

8 hours ago, Crosland said:

 

Indeed, the seller is responsible.

 

 

See above, it is an asset to, and covers, only the seller, not both parties.

 

 

I see signature on delivery as a two edged sword.  Yes,  it protects the seller in that some one has to sign for delivery and in Australia identity proof is required to accept and sign for the item.  Thus the seller is protected against a fraudulent dispute claiming an item was not received.  For the buyer it is a positive as it reassures the buyer that if the seller is sending signature on delivery then there is no attempt at fraud as the buyer has to sign to accept delivery.  If no signature then I assume that eBay would find in favour of the buyer in a dispute even though possibly tracking would show the item delivered.   There are numerous Asian eBay sellers who transmit a tracking number that is either erroneous or is for a less expensive item than the buyer purchased.  Thus tracking on its own is a positive but it can be manipulated by fraudulent sellers. 

 

I have had more than a handful of cases in rural Victoria where tracking may be followed up to a local post office but the item is not recorded as delivered.  This would leave me open should a dispute arise.  I had one occasion where tracking showed that the post office had received my item but not one trace of tracking after that.  Seemingly the package vanished.  The buyer never responded with feedback nor did he question not receiving the item so I have to assume the package was delivered,  however, I was in a mild state of panic for over a month anticipating a dispute arising for an item not received.  At the end of the day all I could prove was a tracking number and that an item had been deposited at the post office. 

[hayfield]

In the uk there are two different tracked systems

 

Buy online and the choice between tracked or signed

 

I think in the post office is signed only.

 

Either way the item is tracked to the door by the Royal Mail. As for who suffers the loss if the buyer claims non delivery there may be a bit of twoing and throwing between the Seller, eBay and the Royal Mail

 

In the UK its the sellers responsibility to get the item to the buyer, certainly for business sellers the buyer has the protection of a 7 days cooling off period, under distant selling rules.

Private sellers its a little unclear, certainly if the item fails to match the description or arrives damaged, its the sellers problem

[Crosland]

Within the UK all parcels are tracked at no extra cost with a 16 digit tracking number on the label. It's a different format to the tracking number you get when paying specifically for tracking and may not be tracked in the same detail, but I have used it to verify delivery.

 

Sending internationally gets a bit confusing. The service available depends on the postal service in the destination country. Some destinations offer both tracked or tracked and signed for the same cost. Go figure!

[Sir TophamHatt]

I don't understand what's happened to Best Offer these days.

 

I always thought Best Offer was for a buyer to offer something close to, but not quite at the starting price.  Like a car or a house - people tend to haggle for money off the starting price.

 

But it seems these days, sellers expect offers higher than the starting price.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Sir TophamHatt