hornby 2020 Hornby A2/2 and A2/3 (2020 Range)

[Dominion]

Agreed on running quality and assembly both being good. I guess they are also trying to clear stock of it before Airborne is released. 

[Farang]

On 18/03/2023 at 16:57, gr.king said:

Perhaps you'll be kind enough to let us know whether it is defect-free and a good smooth runner when received?

Ordered online from Hattons on Saturday and delivered today by Amazon at 14.30. The model looks fine(can't comment on the shade of LNER Apple Green) and runs smoothly. However, the buffers on the tender droop a bit. Hattons also included an invitation to pre-order 100s of forthcoming items so it appears they're back in favour with Hornby.

[Hilux5972]

8 hours ago, Farang said:

However, the buffers on the tender droop a bit.

I believe the buffers and their housings are a separate fitting on LNER tenders, at least they were on my A3 a few years back, so they may not be have been pushed home properly. 

[Dominion]

One of my Thompson Pacific tenders had the whole rear buffer beam not correctly seated so it pointed downwards. It was easy to pursuance to separate. Then I had to remove a small amount of flash or sprue remnant. Then it seated back horizontally fine. 

[45568]

Some time ago I purchased 500 Edward Thompson for what was then a good price, it would be another 50 quid cheaper now!

I repainted it by brush painting with a 30 y.o.'new' tin of Humbrol 104! Fox plates, lining and numbers completed the model.

 

 

I have subsequently repainted models to yield 60517, 60520 and 60523 as the original Hornby green just did not pass muster. I have Steady Aim and Sun Castle to hand which with a little mixing and matching of chimneys should yield Honeyway and Watling Street.

 

60517 is a repainted LNER Chamossaire with a chimney swap from 60505.

 

I really do like the A2/3, I saw several of the class 'back in the day', probably at Doncaster whilst on a works visit. All my examples are smooth quiet and powerful runners.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

 

 

[John Tomlinson]

6 hours ago, 45568 said:

Some time ago I purchased 500 Edward Thompson for what was then a good price, it would be another 50 quid cheaper now!

I repainted it by brush painting with a 30 y.o.'new' tin of Humbrol 104! Fox plates, lining and numbers completed the model.

 

 

I have subsequently repainted models to yield 60517, 60520 and 60523 as the original Hornby green just did not pass muster. I have Steady Aim and Sun Castle to hand which with a little mixing and matching of chimneys should yield Honeyway and Watling Street.

 

60517 is a repainted LNER Chamossaire with a chimney swap from 60505.

 

I really do like the A2/3, I saw several of the class 'back in the day', probably at Doncaster whilst on a works visit. All my examples are smooth quiet and powerful runners.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

 

 

 

I don't know if it was you who has posted a repaint before, or someone else, but anyway this confirms what I thought then, that a proper repaint is the only real answer to Hornby's terrible green.

 

The outcome is excellent, and the Fox lining looks very good.

 

John.

Edited March 22, 2023 by John Tomlinson
Queried source of lining and then realised it was in post.

[gr.king]

I'm now in possession of a Hornby Chamossaire. For economy, as I only wanted to make use of the chassis, and the current reduced prices were indicating that re-sale of body and tender might not recover much, I deliberately ordered a further-discounted imperfect example, which was however described by Hattons as running okay.  Crush/impact damage to one smoke deflector was presumably not an assembly fault, but I did wonder if it indicated rough packing at the factory. A warped running plate looked very much like poor assembly, not clipped into the underside of the boiler where it should have been, and wouldn't simply clip in because the sand filler shields had been fitted in a way that prevented alignment of running plate and boiler. I've sorted those out, but I frankly consider the running plate to be very flimsy compared to the cast metal item in Bachmann's Peppercorn A2 - in fact the whole Hornby body strikes me as flimsy. The position of some of the body assembly screws is not in my view well thought out either, as the slightest hint of roughness or moulding flash on the body parts causes the tightening of the screws to distort the running plate.  Even the "good" smoke deflector was also loose, and a cab door fell off without being touched. The prominent uneven seam along the top of the boiler is poor too, reminding me of some of my childhood, rushed, cheap Airfix aeroplane kit assemblies. The rendition of LNER green is also too white/milky/de-saturated when compared at all closely to Phoenix Precision paint, Railmatch paint, or several distinctly better offerings by Hornby since about 2005.  The chassis did run okay, on the very briefest of tests, but further testing quickly revealed that there was nothing at all preventing one crosshead from flopping inwards, striking the leading crankpin, and jamming up the motion. I've applied a slightly rough and ready solution to that problem.

 

The big snag however, for my original intention of using the chassis under my existing home-made A2/2 (or A2/3) body, turns out not to be the long weight on the top-front of the chassis, which I could certainly remove. It isn't any of the differences of profile under the cab, or under the front of the body, which could be carefully filed / sawn to fit, and the different screw fixing points are not a major concern. The killer concern is actually something that I should have noticed in earlier images. The width of the Hornby motor and the cast saddle in which it sits greatly exceeds the width of the Bachmann equivalent and the width of the slots in bases of my loco bodies. I could widen the body slots in the relevant area, but I'm really not sure that I want to do that, because my bodies currently have no visible unrealistic cut-out of the boiler above the running plate. I hadn't noticed until receiving Chamossaire that Hornby's body has a chunk cut out which exposes the chassis casting beneath the motor, and the casting is only "roughly" the right size and shape to complete the curved profile of the boiler. The defect is partly hidden by the rear sand filler shields and oil boxes on their A2/3 model, but it would be fully exposed by my model of the A2/2 body with original shortened Mikado boiler.

 

I'm now pausing for extended thought, rather than proceeding quickly with a project that was supposed to be quick and easy. I'm distinctly un-impressed with the Hornby model compared to what I believe it could have been.

[micklner]

1 hour ago, gr.king said:

I'm now in possession of a Hornby Chamossaire. For economy, as I only wanted to make use of the chassis, and the current reduced prices were indicating that re-sale of body and tender might not recover much, I deliberately ordered a further-discounted imperfect example, which was however described by Hattons as running okay.  Crush/impact damage to one smoke deflector was presumably not an assembly fault, but I did wonder if it indicated rough packing at the factory. A warped running plate looked very much like poor assembly, not clipped into the underside of the boiler where it should have been, and wouldn't simply clip in because the sand filler shields had been fitted in a way that prevented alignment of running plate and boiler. I've sorted those out, but I frankly consider the running plate to be very flimsy compared to the cast metal item in Bachmann's Peppercorn A2 - in fact the whole Hornby body strikes me as flimsy. The position of some of the body assembly screws is not in my view well thought out either, as the slightest hint of roughness or moulding flash on the body parts causes the tightening of the screws to distort the running plate.  Even the "good" smoke deflector was also loose, and a cab door fell off without being touched. The prominent uneven seam along the top of the boiler is poor too, reminding me of some of my childhood, rushed, cheap Airfix aeroplane kit assemblies. The rendition of LNER green is also too white/milky/de-saturated when compared at all closely to Phoenix Precision paint, Railmatch paint, or several distinctly better offerings by Hornby since about 2005.  The chassis did run okay, on the very briefest of tests, but further testing quickly revealed that there was nothing at all preventing one crosshead from flopping inwards, striking the leading crankpin, and jamming up the motion. I've applied a slightly rough and ready solution to that problem.

 

The big snag however, for my original intention of using the chassis under my existing home-made A2/2 (or A2/3) body, turns out not to be the long weight on the top-front of the chassis, which I could certainly remove. It isn't any of the differences of profile under the cab, or under the front of the body, which could be carefully filed / sawn to fit, and the different screw fixing points are not a major concern. The killer concern is actually something that I should have noticed in earlier images. The width of the Hornby motor and the cast saddle in which it sits greatly exceeds the width of the Bachmann equivalent and the width of the slots in bases of my loco bodies. I could widen the body slots in the relevant area, but I'm really not sure that I want to do that, because my bodies currently have no visible unrealistic cut-out of the boiler above the running plate. I hadn't noticed until receiving Chamossaire that Hornby's body has a chunk cut out which exposes the chassis casting beneath the motor, and the casting is only "roughly" the right size and shape to complete the curved profile of the boiler. The defect is partly hidden by the rear sand filler shields and oil boxes on their A2/3 model, but it would be fully exposed by my model of the A2/2 body with original shortened Mikado boiler.

 

I'm now pausing for extended thought, rather than proceeding quickly with a project that was supposed to be quick and easy. I'm distinctly un-impressed with the Hornby model compared to what I believe it could have been.

I wont be rushing to buy one of them !! I don't remember a review for them when they came out either, only the BR version.

[MikeParkin65]

10 hours ago, micklner said:

I wont be rushing to buy one of them !! I don't remember a review for them when they came out either, only the BR version.

Model Rail reviewed the LNER liveried version in September 2021

[gr.king]

I haven't read a copy of Model Rail for several years. From the days when I occasionally did, I don't recall its reviews as being probing / rigorous, or as "pulling no punches" regarding any shortcomings. It seemed to me to tend towards being a "lots of brightly coloured pictures on thin paper" publication, rather than being filled with hard information and serious comment - before one or two other model railway magazines regrettably adopted a similar approach.

[John Tomlinson]

2 hours ago, gr.king said:

I haven't read a copy of Model Rail for several years. From the days when I occasionally did, I don't recall its reviews as being probing / rigorous, or as "pulling no punches" regarding any shortcomings. It seemed to me to tend towards being a "lots of brightly coloured pictures on thin paper" publication, rather than being filled with hard information and serious comment - before one or two other model railway magazines regrettably adopted a similar approach.

I bought Model Rail fairly religiously when it first appeared, lots of "practical, how to" articles, some good prototype research and some interesting layouts (to me obviously!). I gave up somewhere after issue 100 and haven't looked at it since.

 

John.

[davidw]

On 22/03/2023 at 04:11, 45568 said:

Some time ago I purchased 500 Edward Thompson for what was then a good price, it would be another 50 quid cheaper now!

I repainted it by brush painting with a 30 y.o.'new' tin of Humbrol 104! Fox plates, lining and numbers completed the model.

 

 

I have subsequently repainted models to yield 60517, 60520 and 60523 as the original Hornby green just did not pass muster. I have Steady Aim and Sun Castle to hand which with a little mixing and matching of chimneys should yield Honeyway and Watling Street.

 

60517 is a repainted LNER Chamossaire with a chimney swap from 60505.

 

I really do like the A2/3, I saw several of the class 'back in the day', probably at Doncaster whilst on a works visit. All my examples are smooth quiet and powerful runners.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

 

 

Those look outstanding. Would you weather them slightly?

[MikeParkin65]

On 25/03/2023 at 09:05, gr.king said:

I haven't read a copy of Model Rail for several years. From the days when I occasionally did, I don't recall its reviews as being probing / rigorous, or as "pulling no punches" regarding any shortcomings.

A little unfair considering you hadn’t seen the review. For info in the summary of their review MR noted both the prominent seam along the top of the boiler and various quality control issues. Pretty much matches my experience of this model so a reasonable review from my perspective. 

[gr.king]

12 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

A little unfair considering you hadn’t seen the review. For info in the summary of their review MR noted both the prominent seam along the top of the boiler and various quality control issues. Pretty much matches my experience of this model so a reasonable review from my perspective. 

Thanks Mike. Perhaps in that case the few issues that I read were not totally representative of the material that could appear in the magazine on occasion, so I'll stand corrected on that score. The strange thing is, that I wouldn't have looked for a magazine other than RM or BRM at that time were it not for the fact that I was finding BRM to have become very poor compared to its former self. I'd had the misfortune to take out a year's subscription just as Tony Wright dropped out of the full-time BRM production team. I was extremely disappointed to receive a year's supply of magazines with a repetitive theme of chip installation in N Gauge diesel locos, DCC in general, and the start of the slide into utter beginners' guides to the choice/use of tools, assembly of ultra basic kits, or the production of "no particular prototype" very simple scratch-builds / conversions.

[MikeParkin65]

2 hours ago, gr.king said:

Thanks Mike. Perhaps in that case the few issues that I read were not totally representative of the material that could appear in the magazine on occasion, so I'll stand corrected on that score. The strange thing is, that I wouldn't have looked for a magazine other than RM or BRM at that time were it not for the fact that I was finding BRM to have become very poor compared to its former self. I'd had the misfortune to take out a year's subscription just as Tony Wright dropped out of the full-time BRM production team. I was extremely disappointed to receive a year's supply of magazines with a repetitive theme of chip installation in N Gauge diesel locos, DCC in general, and the start of the slide into utter beginners' guides to the choice/use of tools, assembly of ultra basic kits, or the production of "no particular prototype" very simple scratch-builds / conversions.

No problem - I sought out reviews of the A2/1 recently when prices dropped hence I knew about the MR review - I'm not a regular reader or subscriber.  I agree the quality each of the 'big 4' mags - BRM, MR, HM and RM can vary significantly.  I currently have a sub to HM (because there was a 'free' wagon and I wanted to read various back issues) and RM.  I get 'free' access to BRM by virtue of Gold RMweb membership though to be honest I dont always read BRM these days (and if I do its on Readily or my local library  digital app both of which are easier to read on than the World of Railways digital versions) 

 

My 'desert island' subscription would be RM without hesitation. 

[landscapes]

5 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

No problem - I sought out reviews of the A2/1 recently when prices dropped hence I knew about the MR review - I'm not a regular reader or subscriber.  I agree the quality each of the 'big 4' mags - BRM, MR, HM and RM can vary significantly.  I currently have a sub to HM (because there was a 'free' wagon and I wanted to read various back issues) and RM.  I get 'free' access to BRM by virtue of Gold RMweb membership though to be honest I dont always read BRM these days (and if I do its on Readily or my local library  digital app both of which are easier to read on than the World of Railways digital versions) 

 

My 'desert island' subscription would be RM without hesitation. 

Hi

 

I hope you don’t mind me asking but did you actually mean an A2/1 in your reply or was that a typing error.

 

If we are talking RTR models I wasn’t aware an A2/1 was available in RTR or is there something in the pipeline.

 

Regards

 

David

[MikeParkin65]

4 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi

 

I hope you don’t mind me asking but did you actually mean an A2/1 in your reply or was that a typing error.

 

If we are talking RTR models I wasn’t aware an A2/1 was available in RTR or is there something in the pipeline.

 

Regards

 

David

Should have just said 'funny looking Thompson Pacific' lol - whatever 'Sun Castle' is what I meant 🤣

[landscapes]

8 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Should have just said 'funny looking Thompson Pacific' lol - whatever 'Sun Castle' is what I meant 🤣

Hi

thanks.

Sorry I wasn’t trying to be picky I just though from your reply that there may have been an A2/1 being considered for RTR.

 

Sun Castle is an A2/3 almost identical to an A2/1 but I believe the A2/3 is very slightly bigger.

 

Regards

 

David

 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

8 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi

thanks.

Sorry I wasn’t trying to be picky I just though from your reply that there may have been an A2/1 being considered for RTR.

 

Sun Castle is an A2/3 almost identical to an A2/1 but I believe the A2/3 is very slightly bigger.

 

Regards

 

David

 

 

Confusing isn’t it ? The A2/1were a group of 4: 60507/8/9&10 constructed with a V2 boiler.Thus they were less powerful than the other Thompson A2’s.

[MikeParkin65]

22 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi

thanks.

Sorry I wasn’t trying to be picky I just though from your reply that there may have been an A2/1 being considered for RTR.

 

Sun Castle is an A2/3 almost identical to an A2/1 but I believe the A2/3 is very slightly bigger.

 

Regards

 

David

 

 

No umbrage taken :)

[Ian Hargrave]

Tempting though the price may be on the LNER Thompsons,the Bachmann Peppercorn A2 is light years ahead of it in terms of it in terms of finish…particularly the apple green livery rendition..and is a good performer.It also has BR lettering on the tender. These Pacifics didn’t carry LNER on their tenders for long. Personally,I wouldn’t exchange my Tudor Minstrel for a Hornby Chamossaire.But of course they’re not the same thing,are they? 

[gr.king]

For anybody daft enough to wish to know, and possibly intrepid enough to have a go, I have now demonstrated that a model of the "early" A2/2 body not offered by Hornby (shortened Mikado boiler and vee-front cab, with S-curve in running plate further forward at the front of the firebox), put together previously using a chopped Margate A3 body and several of my own resin components, can indeed be made to fit a Hornby Thompson Pacific chassis, but it isn't easy, particularly quick, or straightforward, although maybe less work than adapting a Bachmann Chassis or building a bespoke one. The job might be a little easier if building the body to suit the chassis in the first place, rather than adapting (as I did) a body originally made to fit an altered Bachmann chassis. A neater result under the rear of the boiler barrel may also be possible if you can find a good way to create better undercut along the sides of the cast motor support on the chassis, rather than leaving the sides vertical, so that where they show above the running plate they blend into the "turn-under" of the boiler. With any luck they'll still look okay on my model when painted either black or very dark green.

A summary of what I had to do can be seen mostly on this page:  https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2443&p=148225#p148225

Not much point re-posting it all here...

I believe the odds suggest that an A2/1 should be possible by similar means too, cab fitted to body a scale foot further forwards and rear of frames cropped to suit.

Edited March 28, 2023 by gr.king
spelling mistake

[John Tomlinson]

15 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Tempting though the price may be on the LNER Thompsons,the Bachmann Peppercorn A2 is light years ahead of it in terms of it in terms of finish…particularly the apple green livery rendition..and is a good performer.It also has BR lettering on the tender. These Pacifics didn’t carry LNER on their tenders for long. Personally,I wouldn’t exchange my Tudor Minstrel for a Hornby Chamossaire.But of course they’re not the same thing,are they? 

 

Being a BR modeller, of somewhat elastic period, I did wonder about using transfer remover and then trying to apply an early BR number and lettering to the apple green "Chamoissaire".

 

If that ends up as a complete Horlicks I can then just respray into BR green, and add it to the BR Pacific fleet!

 

John.

[45568]

On 25/03/2023 at 21:03, davidw said:

Those look outstanding. Would you weather them slightly?

Sorry for the delay in replying David! In theory, yes, all locos I have are intended to be weathered. However, the time allocated to weathering seems to get used for other things! The chassis are given a light dry-brushing with brown to highlight details though. For the sake of completeness, here are 60520 and 60523, treated as above.

 

 

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[landscapes]

7 hours ago, 45568 said:

Sorry for the delay in replying David! In theory, yes, all locos I have are intended to be weathered. However, the time allocated to weathering seems to get used for other things! The chassis are given a light dry-brushing with brown to highlight details though. For the sake of completeness, here are 60520 and 60523, treated as above.

 

 

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

Hi Peter

 

You have done a superb job to the paintwork to your three Hornby A2/3’s, a massive improvement.

 

In you earlier post you mention painting them using Humbrol 104, according to Humbrol’s paint chart that’s a shade of Blue?

 

Although you did say it was 30 years old.

 

Great work, do you dilute the paint to a wash consistency?

 

I have done a similar job but my A2/3 was changed from 60523 Sun Castle to 60519 Honeyway being a Haymarket Pacific.

 

Regards

 

David