Formula 1, 2020

[PaulRhB]

17 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

RB had their time from 2010 to 2013 & are capable of rising to the top again, but they need a good team spirit to achieve it & rubbish talk like this will not help. 

So RB, especially Marko, still seem to follow the old style of succeed or bye bye and we are seeing the uncertainty for Alex as everyone expects him to be culled like Gasly.
Interesting to compare the style to Merc’s effort to reduce ‘fear of mistakes’ so they can be addressed positively isn’t it?

 

Ferrari seem to be trying it after everyone expected Binotto to be dumped but maybe they are finally looking at the long term like Merc did? 
 

Interesting times  

 

[rocor]

20 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

We have heard this empty threat nearly every year since 2013.

They sound like spoilt 3 year olds who have just had a bag of sweets taken away.

It is a competitive sport. Everyone wants to win but only 1 team can & it is up to the others to up beat them. I do not think anyone should be happy about losing, just dignified.

RB had their time from 2010 to 2013 & are capable of rising to the top again, but they need a good team spirit to achieve it & rubbish talk like this will not help. They have hardly fallen to the back of the grid like Williams, who were also once a dominant team.

If they do decide that they no longer want to be part of F1, then that is their decision. The team was bought from Jaguar so I am sure they will just sell it to someone else.

 

Not getting a engine freeze for 2022, would leave Red Bull, if still using the Honda unit, lacking competitiveness in the engine department from that point forwards. Mercedes will agree the engine freeze, but not Renault or Ferrari. The Renault option?. Renault does not want to supply Red Bull with power units, and Red Bull does not want them. Mercedes has the excuse that they are already providing three other teams with engines (McLaren, Aston Martin and Williams). So maybe Red Bull could agree a deal with Ferrari, you supply us with engines and we will install a driver from your young driver academy in our second seat.

[LNERandBR]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

We have heard this empty threat nearly every year since 2013.

They sound like spoilt 3 year olds who have just had a bag of sweets taken away.

 

I can't help feel the same about Red Bull when they start complaining. 

 

Maybe I have a short memory but I can't remember the other teams complaining as much when Red Bull were winning. 

[Andrew P]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

We have heard this empty threat nearly every year since 2013.

They sound like spoilt 3 year olds who have just had a bag of sweets taken away.

It is a competitive sport. Everyone wants to win but only 1 team can & it is up to the others to up beat them. I do not think anyone should be happy about losing, just dignified.

RB had their time from 2010 to 2013 & are capable of rising to the top again, but they need a good team spirit to achieve it & rubbish talk like this will not help. They have hardly fallen to the back of the grid like Williams, who were also once a dominant team.

If they do decide that they no longer want to be part of F1, then that is their decision. The team was bought from Jaguar so I am sure they will just sell it to someone else.

And Williams kept their dignity by NOT moaning, just getting their heads down and trying to get competitive again.

[Andrew P]

1 hour ago, rocor said:

 

Not getting a engine freeze for 2022, would leave Red Bull, if still using the Honda unit, lacking competitiveness in the engine department from that point forwards. Mercedes will agree the engine freeze, but not Renault or Ferrari. The Renault option?. Renault does not want to supply Red Bull with power units, and Red Bull does not want them. Mercedes has the excuse that they are already providing three other teams with engines (McLaren, Aston Martin and Williams). So maybe Red Bull could agree a deal with Ferrari, you supply us with engines and we will install a driver from your young driver academy in our second seat.

Two problems with that really. Ferrari already supply Haas and Alpha Romeo, and they know that if they supply Red Bull, the chances are that Red Bull will Beat Ferrari, and Alpha Torri will beat Haas and Alpha Romeo, so it's no win in supplying them.

[rocor]

5 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Two problems with that really. Ferrari already supply Haas and Alpha Romeo, and they know that if they supply Red Bull, the chances are that Red Bull will Beat Ferrari, and Alpha Torri will beat Haas and Alpha Romeo, so it's no win in supplying them.

 

Unless the alternative would be the FIA imposing an engine freeze rather than losing two teams from the grid. At the present time Ferrari's problems seem to be mostly related to their power unit, rather than their aero.

[Andrew P]

3 minutes ago, rocor said:

 

Unless the alternative would be the FIA imposing an engine freeze rather than losing two teams from the grid. At the present time Ferrari's problems seem to be mostly related to their power unit, rather than their aero.

Ferrari's problems seem to be mostly related to their power unit, No 2 Driver, rather than their aero. SORRY.

[Jol Wilkinson]

1 hour ago, Andrew P said:

Ferrari's problems seem to be mostly related to their power unit, No 2 Driver, rather than their aero. SORRY.

Interesting that SV has become the panto villain, while VB's recent poor performance, as well as his more regular inconsistent race performance  goes without such comments.

[Andrew P]

30 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Interesting that SV has become the panto villain, while VB's recent poor performance, as well as his more regular inconsistent race performance  goes without such comments.

Yes your absolutely right, but I think the main difference is that VB doesn't crash that often, and he hasn't taken his Team mate out twice, (Webber and Leclerc) and he qualifies as close to Lewis as anyone can, and sometimes beats him. But yes your right, he has the best Car, but I'm afraid it's down to Racecraft, and Lewis has that edge over him and the others in most Races.

[Pete the Elaner]

3 hours ago, rocor said:

 

Unless the alternative would be the FIA imposing an engine freeze rather than losing two teams from the grid. At the present time Ferrari's problems seem to be mostly related to their power unit, rather than their aero.

There is always a possibility of a team folding, but a change of ownership would be far more likely for a successful team like Red Bull.

The latest big sponsors seem to be betting companies, so maybe we would have a BetFred Formula 1 team?

The only successful team I can think of which changed ownership was Brawn to Mercedes.

Most which change hands seem to be those who are usually at the back half of the grid. I would be more worried about losing Williams, although it looks more likely that they will be known as something different next season now the Williams family is not a major shareholder.

 

[RJS1977]

4 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Interesting that SV has become the panto villain, while VB's recent poor performance, as well as his more regular inconsistent race performance  goes without such comments.

 

The difference is that apart from a couple of poor performances this year, Bottas has finished second to Hamilton or at worst third in most races, albeit often some way behind him. Had Lewis not been in F1, Bottas may well have been champion this year.

 

Vettel on the other hand, has regularly finished seven or eight places behind Leclerc. Throw in several seasons' worth of costly unforced errors, and some quite frankly appalling conduct at races (his tantrum after the Canadian Grand Prix last year, or driving into Lewis in Azerbaijan) and it's only natural he's become the villain.

[newbryford]

5 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Interesting that SV has become the panto villain,

 

 

Oh no he hasn't.............................

 

 

Sorry - couldn't resist.

Edited November 17, 2020 by newbryford

[Andrew P]

Some more astonishing Hamilton facts that I wasn't aware of.

 

This was Hamilton’s tenth win of the year, the SIXTH time he has reached double figures in a single season (compared to four times by all other drivers in history – equally split between Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Vettel).  He has also won four in a row for the seventh time in his incredible career.

 

You simply can’t ever rule Hamilton out, even after a bad qualifying in which there was no Mercedes in the top five on the grid for the first time in the entire hybrid era…. but the last time Hamilton started outside the top five was when he lined up 14th at the 2018 German Grand Prix, and he still won the race.  The last time he had started from 6th on the grid before Sunday was at the 2014 British Grand Prix…..and he won that race too!

 

Hamilton’s 73rd race victory for the Mercedes team established a new record for the most wins by a driver with a single constructor, surpassing Michael Schumacher’s 72 wins with Ferrari only two races after he surpassed the German’s all-time record of 91.

 

His incredible consistency means he has scored in 47 consecutive races, a streak 20 races longer than any other driver has ever achieved.  Statistically at least, Hamilton is unquestionably the greatest driver of the era, and arguably the greatest of ANY era.

 

Read all this and lots more, here;

https://f1.channel4.com/news/turkey-gp-stat-wrap

[RJS1977]

11 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Oh no he hasn't.............................

 

 

Sorry - couldn't resist.

 

Leclerc: "Where is Seb?"

Binitto: "He's behind you!"

[skipepsi]

28 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Leclerc: "Where is Seb?"

Binitto: "He's behind you!"

Oh no he isn't!

[jcredfer]

4 hours ago, skipepsi said:

Oh no he isn't!

 

As he whirled off the stage.....

 

Julian

 

[skipepsi]

6 hours ago, jcredfer said:

 

As he whirled off the stage.....

 

Julian

 

On to the podium.

[jcredfer]

38 minutes ago, skipepsi said:

On to the podium.

Once upon a time.....

 

Julian

 

[skipepsi]

Just now, jcredfer said:

Once upon a time.....

 

Julian

 

Sunday I thought?

[Hobby]

Exactly... Once... On Sunday... Then he'll disappear in a puff of (tyre) smoke...

[black and decker boy]

All this aiming digs at Vettel highlights a few things applicable not just to Ferrari but Red Bull this year and no doubt Aston Martin next year.

 

There are many ways to set a car, both in design philosophy and then within the aero settings for each track.

 

In his RB days and then early Ferrari days, the cars were built to suit \ amplify SVs driving style. The wheels came off when that started to change (DR was more at home in a skittish RB than SV hence doing so well). As Ferrari decided last year to ditch SV and concentrate on CL, its possible this years Ferrari isn't honed to SVs style, exacerbating his lack of enthusiasm to push 110% for the team. I very much doubt he is a c**p driver and has lost all of his talent.

 

The current RB will be tuned to suit MV and any 2nd driver will have to adapt as best they can to that.

 

Next season, will the Aston be tuned to SV or LS?

[fezza]

On 17/11/2020 at 18:44, Jol Wilkinson said:

Interesting that SV has become the panto villain, while VB's recent poor performance, as well as his more regular inconsistent race performance  goes without such comments.

 

On the basis of stats other teams ought to be lining up for VB - the fact they are not tells you all you need to know about the superiority of Mercedes. A moderate driver can still get regular podiums in the only competitive car when all goes well - when it doesn't hevcan't overcome the handicap and is well down the field. 

 

Hamilton has done all that can be expected of him - but as with the Schumacher era, this is not a golden era of competitive racing with several outstanding drivers and teams in with a shot. 

[Jol Wilkinson]

1 hour ago, fezza said:

 

On the basis of stats other teams ought to be lining up for VB - the fact they are not tells you all you need to know about the superiority of Mercedes. A moderate driver can still get regular podiums in the only competitive car when all goes well - when it doesn't hevcan't overcome the handicap and is well down the field. 

 

Hamilton has done all that can be expected of him - but as with the Schumacher era, this is not a golden era of competitive racing with several outstanding drivers and teams in with a shot. 

Perhaps it is VB's performance that marks him out as a "second" driver and that explains why Mercedes are happy to keep him on and no one has tried to poach him.

 

In the dry he is very fast over one lap and if he gets pole and a good start can lead to the chequered flag. However his race craft and "aggression" is not as strong as Lewis, Max, Charles and some of the other young guns. His chin seems to go down if he gets stuck mid pack and doesn't seem to have the ability to manage the tyres as well as some others (Lewis, Sergio).  In the same way that others struggle with the current Pirelli's - designed to meet FOM's desire to make things difficult/entertaining but which does more to screw things up - VB suffers over race distance when running behind others.

[rocor]

2 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

 

 

The current RB will be tuned to suit MV and any 2nd driver will have to adapt as best they can to that.

 

 

 

It appears that the current RB is not suited to any one drivers style. That it is more down to the individual driver to adapt to the quirks of the car.

[skipepsi]

5 hours ago, Hobby said:

Exactly... Once... On Sunday... Then he'll disappear in a puff of (tyre) smoke...

It was meant as a light hearted commentary this pantomime season nothing more...