Formula 1, 2020

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

So, will Hamilton go on to make a clean sweep of the rest of the races, or take things easy for the rest of the season? 

 

 

On past form the answer is yes and no (in that order). 

[mudmagnet]

A great race, with a masterful drive from LH. Clearly biding his time behind SV and looking after his tyres for as long as possible. Great drive from Perez, but if another lap would have lost out to one or both of the red cars. How much was the Racing Point set up for a wet race? The same could be asked about Red Bull. When drying, clearly these four were wearing out their intermediate tyres far too quickly. Perez has shown in the past that he can look after his tyres, whereas Stroll did not, assuming both with similar 'wet' set up. I wonder if LH went for a more conservative set-up, along with the Ferraris?

Still a big question mark over Albon? Perez Red Bull bound or would they not want the potential of Perez showing up MV? Would Hulk be a better fit? Not sure about that either.

 

 

[57xx]

What an excellent race. Some fantastic driving from so many drivers, even Max when spinning was showing great skill getting it all back under control! Stroll and Perez done great, as did Vettel getting some old form back. Of course the highlight was Mr Hamilton biding his time from 6th on the grid to win the race and championship #7. Loved seeing Seb's great off-track persona shining through when congratulating Lewis as soon as he was out of his car.

[Hobby]

12 hours ago, mudmagnet said:

How much was the Racing Point set up for a wet race? The same could be asked about Red Bull. When drying, clearly these four were wearing out their intermediate tyres far too quickly.

 

However Perez only did one pit stop, only two other drivers did the same, Hamilton, the race winner and Kvyat (12th). So perhaps that should read "these three" and we should look at the driving styles of the other drivers as to why they were wearing them out so quickly?

[mozzer models]

14 hours ago, Sidecar Racer said:

 

 Yet all the drivers said it was still to wet for slicks .    

The track may have been ok for Slicks but getting out of the pits & on to the track the slicks would lose so much heat on the wet tarmac lap times would be very slow

 

[Oldddudders]

Perez and Lewis are famous for conserving tyres. And each managing to keep on the island with bald treads. In an era where tyre management sometimes matters so much, those become core skills. 

[woodenhead]

26 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Perez and Lewis are famous for conserving tyres. And each managing to keep on the island with bald treads. In an era where tyre management sometimes matters so much, those become core skills. 

And to think Perez will be without a seat next year - he held it together to the end (ok they didn't pit him) but Stroll's race went to pieces once he was back in the pack.

 

He's had such a season, he's 4th in the standings with a good chance of keeping that position to the end of the season whilst his team mate is 11th.  Stroll isn't a bad driver, but even Daddy must admit that Perez is the more accomplished of the two.

[Andrew P]

22 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

And to think Perez will be without a seat next year - he held it together to the end (ok they didn't pit him) but Stroll's race went to pieces once he was back in the pack.

 

He's had such a season, he's 4th in the standings with a good chance of keeping that position to the end of the season whilst his team mate is 11th.  Stroll isn't a bad driver, but even Daddy must admit that Perez is the more accomplished of the two.

And Vettel had a good day, but one good day does not make up for, NOT ONE, but TWO poor seasons so far.

[newbryford]

As RB often do a split strategy for their two drivers, I wonder if Perez and his tyre management skills, would actually be a good partner to Max at RB?

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by newbryford

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, newbryford said:

As RB often do a split strategy for their two drivers, I wonder if Perez and his tyre management skills, would actually be a good partner to Max at RB?

 

But would RB be good for Perez, there's something about RB and it's second drivers - all good at the junior team but in the main team they go to pieces.  That said Perez has shone whilst knowing his team mate is the owner's son, maybe being a veteran driver is what RB need in their number two.

[Pete the Elaner]

17 hours ago, EddieB said:

Commentary highlight from DC: “Vettel’s had an out of body experience as he’s gained six places on the opening lap”. 

 

My commentary highlight was also on C4, but from Webber:

When Leclerc caught Vettel to pass him:

"Careful Charles. Vettel will turn into you at this corner".

For those unaware, Webber suffered this treatment from Vettel in 2010. https://youtu.be/tHb1y9TJMV4

[mudmagnet]

5 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

However Perez only did one pit stop, only two other drivers did the same, Hamilton, the race winner and Kvyat (12th). So perhaps that should read "these three" and we should look at the driving styles of the other drivers as to why they were wearing them out so quickly?

Yes, you're correct,  should be 3 drivers. 

[PaulRhB]

It made me smile that they were saying before the race that it wasn’t the way Hamilton would want to win the title as Valterri was already out of it but then he just stayed calm and pulled out every trick in his toybox! That drive was worth a championship!

Seeing Max get the red mist and his car control to save it was great entertainment but also proof he’s just not quite at Lewis’ level still, he’s got time though and he could be equally as dominant if he can tame that impetuousness like Lewis has done. 
I watched Touring cars right before the F1 and what a great afternoon’s tv  

[LNERandBR]

DC mentioned in his C4 commentary that Max looked like he was driving aggressively whilst stuck behind Vettel. He made too many little mistakes that all added up to his inability to pass.

 

I do hope that Perez get's a drive next year.

[Hobby]

I keep thinking that Max should have learned by now, it's the end of his fifth season, and for the last two or three seasons we've all been saying the same thing, calm down. I just get that feeling that if he doesn't do it soon he may win the odd title but he will not dominate like Lewis and Michael have. There are some good drivers coming through who have the capability to take him on and if he continues to make mistakes and doesn't control himself he could be the next "nearly man". He's been very lucky to seemingly have an undisputed "number 1" status at Red Bull, like Seb, but as a young driver I'm not convinced that is the best way for a young driver to learn his trade.

[Hobby]

On another note, it seems Stroll's drop off in performance was do to damage underneath which caused less downforce, they don't say how it was caused, though.

 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/153585/stroll-pace-drop-in-turkey-due-to-front-wing-damage

Edited November 16, 2020 by Hobby

[woodenhead]

9 minutes ago, Hobby said:

I keep thinking that Max should have learned by now, it's the end of his fifth season, and for the last two or three seasons we've all been saying the same thing, calm down. I just get that feeling that if he doesn't do it soon he may win the odd title but he will not dominate like Lewis and Michael have. There are some good drivers coming through who have the capability to take him on and if he continues to make mistakes and doesn't control himself he could be the next "nearly man". He's been very lucky to seemingly have an undisputed "number 1" status at Red Bull, like Seb, but as a young driver I'm not convinced that is the best way for a young driver to learn his trade.

His chances of winning multiple championships look challenging in the next couple of years:

• 2021 - no major changes and LH still driving - Merc will looks odds on to dominate again next year
• 2022 - new rules - should enable Ferrari to unleash LeClerc, likely LH will do another year as it will be a challenge for him.
• RB have to resolve their engine supplier matter and then bed in if they end up with something other than a Honda engine re-badged and developed for them by a third party.
• Return of Alonso, McLaren with Mercedes engines and Ricciardo.

Max certainly isn't looking at an easy ride and who knows Vettel may be rejuvenated next year too.

[Pete the Elaner]

59 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

It made me smile that they were saying before the race that it wasn’t the way Hamilton would want to win the title as Valterri was already out of it but then he just stayed calm and pulled out every trick in his toybox! That drive was worth a championship!

Seeing Max get the red mist and his car control to save it was great entertainment but also proof he’s just not quite at Lewis’ level still, he’s got time though and he could be equally as dominant if he can tame that impetuousness like Lewis has done. 
I watched Touring cars right before the F1 and what a great afternoon’s tv  

 

Surely they meant finishing 6th would not be how he wanted to win it.

Winning in the style he did would surely be a dream way to win it?

 

4 hours ago, Andrew P said:

And Vettel had a good day, but one good day does not make up for, NOT ONE, but TWO poor seasons so far.

 

He did indeed have a good day. I have some sympathy with Vettel & think Ferrari is a major factor in his appearing to lose a little confidence.

 

Any sport benefits from a pantomime villain such as Vettel is on here. Away from the track, he appears to have one of the best sense of humour of all the drivers, although Norris also seems quite good in this regard.

The Italian media & the board at Ferrari seem to have unrealistically high expectations of their team, which gets passed on to their drivers. Their desire for control does not suit everyone, which is a reason Jean Todt left, the same season Raikkonen won the title.

Our other villain, Fred, decided he no longer wanted to put up with their empty promises of a title winning car so Vettel took on the biggest wages on offer.

After the first 2-3 seasons, he finally had a worthy car but the pressure of this seemed to expose cracks in his character.

He then got Leclerc as a team mate. If he had clearly been better, everyone would have said he should be. Anything less was a failure. Leclerc had a good season which did not look so good from the Vet's point of view.

Although I don't think anyone should feel obliged to renew a contract after it expires & don't consider the lack of renewal to be a 'sacking', I believe that knowing you are longer wanted at your current team will hurt your confidence, no matter how much you try to convince yourself it doesn't.

 

I think he will be happier next year pushing a car which is not expected to do so well.

[PaulRhB]

5 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Surely they meant finishing 6th would not be how he wanted to win it.

Yes that’s why I said before the race  they made the comment thinking with his lack of grip he would struggle to get on the podium!

 

8 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Winning in the style he did would surely be a dream way to win it?

As I said 

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

he just stayed calm and pulled out every trick in his toybox! That drive was worth a championship!

 

 

[woodenhead]

8 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I think he will be happier next year pushing a car which is not expected to do so well.

The Pink Mercedes will be up there again next season, Perez has shown it is a good car, well it should be, it's a Merc that's been through the 3d printer.

[Andrew P]

Lewis Hamilton = My thoughts.

 

On paper very few of todays drivers stand any chance of multiple titles.

Lewis had the right Car from day 1

He qualified 3rd in his first race.

He finished the season just 1 point behind Championship winner Raikkonen.

He won his first of 7 Championships in year 2,

He has now had more Pole positions than any other driver,

He has won more Races than any other driver,

He has lead more race laps than any other driver,

He's had more Podiums than any other driver

He has now equaled the record 7 Championships.

He is still on form and hungry for more.

 

Now lets look at his opposition. 

Vettel = 4 Championships, and 53 Race wins, almost half that of LH. and IMHO past his best.

Vestappen = 5 years into F1, and only 9 wins.

Alonso = Aged 39, so getting on a bit, 2 Championships, and only 32 wins, can he make a come back against some youngsters next year when he turns 40? we shall have to wait and see.

Leclerc = 2 seasons in F1, and has dominated at Ferrari, but not enough wins to show he is a title contender yet, ONLY 2 wins so far.

Bottas = 7 Seasons, and only 9 wins in what is now the best Car in F1, I think that sums him up.

 

And then there are the rest.

All apart from Norris have had a few seasons in F1, and some have won Races, but not one driver of the current pack looks like they will get the number of wins to starts ratio that Lewis Hamilton has achieved, and so I cant see any of the current drivers getting more than a couple of Championships each if their lucky. At least not until AFTER Lewis has retired.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Andrew P

[Andrew P]

Jenson Button on Lewis Hamilton.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/12133773/jenson-buttons-lewis-hamilton-prediction-after-outstanding-seventh-f1-title?fbclid=IwAR3i6nWOcZ2PV8z4MPphktq_DPr_eMF3YL263mlmBhG4t8BcTCT3hVbOnFc

[PaulRhB]

Very difficult to measure the others against him when the multiple world champion has experience and the best car, pretty much the perfect storm for everyone else. If Max, Charles and Lando had the ultimate machine at the same point then they would probably look very similar to Lewis, what will be telling is how they learn long term.
Lewis really turned the corner in 2016, 10 years in, after Rosberg beat him in the psychological stakes and took the championship. That was his weak point and when he turned his focus to deal with that he eliminated the hot headed distraction we saw Max display on Sunday. 

Dennis had taken a huge punt in putting a rookie in the best car and that gave Lewis the early opportunity but the domination he’d shown earlier earnt him that chance. Right place at the right time?
Martin Whitmarsh’s interview in this story on the BBC is very interesting about how close it was to not happening. 
He had the raw talent, to an extent was lucky that Dennis took the punt, he and his dad were pushing too. So you could argue luck over making your own luck forever but much like the ‘greatest ever’ debate it’s never going to be answered to everyone’s satisfaction. Teams don’t really want two Alpha drivers, we’ve seen what happens with Senna & Prost, Lewis & Nico/Fernando, Max & Daniel, Seb & Charles, to name a few, and it can cost them championship points. Valterri is the dream second man he pushes but not consistently enough for the politics to become a problem. 

 

[rocor]

22 hours ago, Hobby said:

I keep thinking that Max should have learned by now, it's the end of his fifth season, and for the last two or three seasons we've all been saying the same thing, calm down. I just get that feeling that if he doesn't do it soon he may win the odd title but he will not dominate like Lewis and Michael have. There are some good drivers coming through who have the capability to take him on and if he continues to make mistakes and doesn't control himself he could be the next "nearly man". He's been very lucky to seemingly have an undisputed "number 1" status at Red Bull, like Seb, but as a young driver I'm not convinced that is the best way for a young driver to learn his trade.

 

Max looked a lot more lay back this season, even though it was obvious that he could not win this years championship, until Honda pulled the plug. Now it is even in question if he will have a drive for 2022. Red Bull may pull out of F1, if they can not get an engine freeze for that season and going fowards.

[Pete the Elaner]

53 minutes ago, rocor said:

 

Max looked a lot more lay back this season, even though it was obvious that he could not win this years championship, until Honda pulled the plug. Now it is even in question if he will have a drive for 2022. Red Bull may pull out of F1, if they can not get an engine freeze for that season and going fowards.

 

We have heard this empty threat nearly every year since 2013.

They sound like spoilt 3 year olds who have just had a bag of sweets taken away.

It is a competitive sport. Everyone wants to win but only 1 team can & it is up to the others to up beat them. I do not think anyone should be happy about losing, just dignified.

RB had their time from 2010 to 2013 & are capable of rising to the top again, but they need a good team spirit to achieve it & rubbish talk like this will not help. They have hardly fallen to the back of the grid like Williams, who were also once a dominant team.

If they do decide that they no longer want to be part of F1, then that is their decision. The team was bought from Jaguar so I am sure they will just sell it to someone else.