Formula 1, 2020

[LNERandBR]

The main gripe I've heard from Drivers about the Safety Car being too slow is that it makes it very hard for them to keep temperature in the tyres. 

 

Low Temp means they have no grip and no grip means that come the restart there's more likely to be another accident. 

 

The overall issue being that F1 cars have gotten a lot quicker and the Safety Cars just can't go fast enough. At least the current Safety Cars are actually built to be sports cars and not a typical family hatchback like when they were introduced 

[PaulRhB]

Surely using a F2 car or true sports car as a safety car would work with a flashy light fixed to the rear wing or top air intake but at what speed does it become unsafe for the Marshall’s clearing up? 

[ianwales]

18 minutes ago, LNERandBR said:

 

 

The overall issue being that F1 cars have gotten a lot quicker and the Safety Cars just can't go fast enough.

 

But the whole idea behind the safety car is to SLOW the field down so that I and my colleagues can do our job safely, it is quite scary to be on track picking up bits of car when the others are bearing down on you and weaving to keep their tyres warm, been there done that, nearly got taken out once by a Formula Ford who lost control of his weaving and spun behind the safety car.

Edited September 14, 2020 by ianwales

[Joseph_Pestell]

That AMG Merc could go a lot quicker. They are doing a speed that is "safe" while the marshalls clear the track.

 

Seems to me simple enough that, while the safety car is on, the cars should keep more distance between them so that they can weave around and warm up the tyres.

[Classsix T]

14 minutes ago, LNERandBR said:

The main gripe I've heard from Drivers about the Safety Car being too slow is that it makes it very hard for them to keep temperature in the tyres. 

 

Low Temp means they have no grip and no grip means that come the restart there's more likely to be another accident. 

 

The overall issue being that F1 cars have gotten a lot quicker and the Safety Cars just can't go fast enough. At least the current Safety Cars are actually built to be sports cars and not a typical family hatchback like when they were introduced 

This being the case and safety of the marshalls being of utmost importance, here's two alternatives to ponder:

1) Line the cars up stationary in the pit lane, tyre blankets on, until work completed. (Howls from the "showmen".) 

2) Localised safety zone where work is taking place. Pit limiter in action in safety zone, virtual safety car pace elsewhere at a speed conducive to keeping the car fighting fit.

 

C6T. 

[PaulRhB]

5 minutes ago, ianwales said:

nearly got taken out once by a Formula Ford who lost control of his weaving and spun behind the safety car.

It seems strange they aren’t banned from weaving where the incident is to be honest. They won’t lose much heat in the few seconds it takes to pass the site. 

[LNERandBR]

Oh for sure when entering the section of track where the incident is happening the field must be slowed down.

 

I think the issue is more when the incident has been cleared and they are waiting for the lapped cars to unlap themselves and getting ready for the restart.

[StuAllen]

8 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Surely using a F2 car or true sports car as a safety car would work with a flashy light fixed to the rear wing or top air intake but at what speed does it become unsafe for the Marshall’s clearing up? 

It’s something that has come up a few time in the Sky commentary a few times, the answer they’ve given is that the safety car needs to be able to “go” at a moments notice and in all weather conditions. You wouldn’t necessarily be able to do that in a modified F1 or F2 car

[Joseph_Pestell]

7 minutes ago, ianwales said:

 

But the whole idea behind the safety car is to SLOW the field down so that I and my colleagues can do our job safely, it is quite scary to be on track picking up bits of car when the others are bearing down on you and weaving to keep their tyres warm, been there done that.

 

I think that we need to make a distinction between removing a car that is in the gravel or tyre wall and picking up pieces of debris from the track itself. When marshals have to on, or close to, the track itself, the race should be stopped. Even behind the pace car, a marshal is not going to survive being hit. 

[Classsix T]

15 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I think that we need to make a distinction between removing a car that is in the gravel or tyre wall and picking up pieces of debris from the track itself. When marshals have to on, or close to, the track itself, the race should be stopped. Even behind the pace car, a marshal is not going to survive being hit. 

Given the attrition rate of front wings in the sport, that's a shed load of stopping and starting Joseph!

I fully trust the sport and the marshal's ability to do their job safely without the need for stopping the cars completely. 

 

C6T. 

[Andrew P]

QUESTION = Would a Tesler be any quicker?

[simontaylor484]

i remember something similar happening back in the Murray Walker days with the safety car and him saying it should be going round the corner on its doorhandles so the cars could keep the heat in tyres.Although I can't remember the circumstances in which the car was deployed.

I have worked on the side of main roads and can fully understand any safety concerns and it can be terrifying when you get a cockwomble .

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by AY Mod
Politics element removed.

[RJS1977]

5 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I think that we need to make a distinction between removing a car that is in the gravel or tyre wall and picking up pieces of debris from the track itself. When marshals have to on, or close to, the track itself, the race should be stopped. Even behind the pace car, a marshal is not going to survive being hit. 

 

However the purpose of a safety car is not just to slow the cars down.

 

Perhaps more importantly, the safety car brings all the cars together on the same part of the circuit. So the marshalls know that once the full train of cars has gone past, there won't be another car along for perhaps another 90 seconds, which gives them time to retrieve a large piece of debris from the track.

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

8 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

However the purpose of a safety car is not just to slow the cars down.

 

Perhaps more importantly, the safety car brings all the cars together on the same part of the circuit. So the marshalls know that once the full train of cars has gone past, there won't be another car along for perhaps another 90 seconds, which gives them time to retrieve a large piece of debris from the track.

 

 

Yes, that works fine for a single large piece of debris. What we saw this weekend was lots of small pieces of debris.

[PhilJ W]

15 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Yes, that works fine for a single large piece of debris. What we saw this weekend was lots of small pieces of debris.

Perhaps the only answer is to stop the cars on the grid (in race order) and mechanically sweep the track.

[Joseph_Pestell]

13 hours ago, Andrew P said:

QUESTION = Would a Tesler be any quicker?

 

I suspect that the choice of Safety Car is about sponsorship rather than speed. After all, Mugello belongs to Ferrari so a quick Safety Car could certainly have been supplied by the hosts.

 

I recall a TV report a couple of years back in which Lewis Hamilton took the presenter round the track in the Merc Safety Car. It can be quick!

[John Harris]

13 hours ago, Andrew P said:

QUESTION = Would a Tesler be any quicker?

 

Yes, for a couple of laps.  When you use the "ludicrous" mode on Teslas, which maximises speed, the system shuts it down after a short period to preserve battery power.  It's why these staged drag races are a fake, yes a Tesla can beat a Ferrari over a quarter mile, but after two or three runs the Tesla has to stop, the Ferrari (or whatever) can carry on till the petrol runs out.

 

The Safety Car and the Doctor's one (behind the cars at the start) are supplied by MB as a sponsorship deal, used at all races.  The current safety car is a Mercedes-AMG GT R, capable of 198mph, driven by Bernd Mayländer an experienced racing driver with Porsche and MB.

 

jch

[Pete the Elaner]

2 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Perhaps the only answer is to stop the cars on the grid (in race order) and mechanically sweep the track.

 

The debris was on the grid.

As it was, they were stopped in the pit lane where any damage (eg broken bodywork) could be replaced like-for-like for safety reasons, they then had a lap with which to get tyre & brake temperature up. Because of this warm-up procedure, the cars are designed to work in a small temperature window which means the warm-up is vital for safety reasons....so does it matter whether they park on the grid or in the pit lane.

 

Regardless of whether it is a standing or rolling start, both share the same disadvantage: Any driver who has worked hard to build up a gap (possibly working their tyres hard n the process) gets it wiped out. It may be good for viewing but from a sporting point of view, it is terrible.

[Oldddudders]

For the first standing re-start, Lewis arrived in second place on the grid with his brakes smoking, unlike those around him. I suspect he'd been left-foot braking down the straight, knowing that to get past Bottas he would have to brake later, and needed the brakes to be good and ready, which they were....

[Zomboid]

The safety car doesn't hang about, it's just that there's nothing that can be used in the same manner as a safety car which is playing the same game as an F1 car.

And that is kind of the point anyway. 

[Bulleidboy100]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

For the first standing re-start, Lewis arrived in second place on the grid with his brakes smoking, unlike those around him. I suspect he'd been left-foot braking down the straight, knowing that to get past Bottas he would have to brake later, and needed the brakes to be good and ready, which they were....

 

.........and that's why he's heading towards his seventh World Championship.

[Oldddudders]

8 minutes ago, Bulleidboy100 said:

 

.........and that's why he's heading towards his seventh World Championship.

Exactly. Rather like "Professor" Prost, he seems able to think ahead and work out a strategy better than some. Being fast in a fast car is a great start - but being a step ahead can really help. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

10 minutes ago, Bulleidboy100 said:

 

.........and that's why he's heading towards his seventh World Championship.

 

Indeed. Lewis' experience shows so often. I sometimes feel that he wins mainly through not making any mistakes.

 

I also wonder whether he could actually be a lot faster if he needed to be. I get the impression that he is just doing enough to win and, by doing that, minimising the risk of any failures on the car.

[DCB]

No one was seriously hurt.   The race was great viewing and the crashes got widespread mainstream TV coverage.   Great day for Liberty Media.     Maybe the Carlos Saintz Jnr on board video of tail ending when tailgating should be shown to every learner driver

[Hobby]

17 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

I also wonder whether he could actually be a lot faster if he needed to be. I get the impression that he is just doing enough to win and, by doing that, minimising the risk of any failures on the car.

 

He's done that plenty of times, seemingly just pottering along and then someone starts to catch him and then he just turns it up a bit and the gap re-appears... He is very good at controlling the race from the front, that's for sure, though he's also proved he is well capable of racing when he's needed to. Unlike some past world champs he tends to win cleanly as well.