Formula 1, 2020

[Hobby]

Paul, as I said we've had the discussion before, you and I, and we don't agree, that's why I said it regards to us two agreeing to disagree, it applied to no one else and I never suggested closing it down for anyone else. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Hobby

[Classsix T]

45 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

You are off course assuming that he can still walk after those two races.

Handy how the lack of pleb attendance coincides with Ferrari's likely worst "home" match ever?

 

Where's my Bacofoil tifter? C6T. 

[Classsix T]

It also reminds me of some years ago, Ferrari tried team drafting around Monza to improve lap times, I think it was Kimi and Seb? One of them played ball but the other was reluctant to reciprocate for the other side of the garage.

 

I want live comms broadcasting if it is suggested for this one. 

 

C6T. 

[friscopete]

According my friend ,an intinerant F1 engine builder(honest )Ferrari couldnt organise a booze up in brewery unless a foreigner told them how to do it . Its aways been so .An Englishmen made their cars reliable in the 50's and it has been similar ever since ..brilliant Engineers but departmental in fighting ,back stabbing ,blaming everything but themselves .The Schumi glory days were all led by foreigners  from design to  race management.Great name s already and ready to cheat and lie  to boost the team above its real potential with a compliant driver.Later additions didnt do so well as it gradually fell off a cliff led by red lemmings ..great looking cars though . 

[Classsix T]

7 minutes ago, friscopete said:

According my friend ,an intinerant F1 engine builder(honest )Ferrari couldnt organise a booze up in brewery unless a foreigner told them how to do it . Its aways been so .An Englishmen made their cars reliable in the 50's and it has been similar ever since ..brilliant Engineers but departmental in fighting ,back stabbing ,blaming everything but themselves .The Schumi glory days were all led by foreigners  from design to  race management.Great name s already and ready to cheat and lie  to boost the team above its real potential with a compliant driver.Later additions didnt do so well as it gradually fell off a cliff led by red lemmings ..great looking cars though . 

I believe that lack of humility and blatant arrogance is deftly ignored and referred to as "passion".

 

C6T. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎31‎/‎08‎/‎2020 at 11:51, Oldddudders said:

Poor Binotto, who is simply the holder of the poison chalice, and widely believed to be a good engineer who deserves better, must be sore in a lot of places right now. 

I believe that among other things he headed the engine development under the previous great leader? His superiors at the time will have approved, but the chalice and its toxic contents will have his fingerprints all over it.

 

On ‎31‎/‎08‎/‎2020 at 12:28, Andrew P said:

Binotto must be getting a good kicking ...I think he will will be GONE after the two Italian Races, maybe of his own choice.

 

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

You are off course assuming that he can still walk after those two races.

Some might feel that it is surprising he's still in post on observable underperformance grounds : except of course that someone with the chops for it has to be in position, and he will know where all the bodies are buried; without the requirement for the heavyweight design review that a new appointee would require to take up the lead, in what is already a very crowded season.

 

We must assume that there will be some candidates eager to replace him. Nothing like being the shight in knining armour charging to the rescue, when all is in disarray. You are hardly likely to make matters worse...

Edited September 1, 2020 by 34theletterbetweenB&D
spixing a foonerism.

[Andrew P]

2 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I believe that among other things he headed the engine development under the previous great leader? His superiors at the time will have approved, but the chalice and its toxic contents will have his fingerprints all over it.

 

 

Some might feel that it is surprising he's still in post on observable underperformance grounds : except of course that someone with the chops for it has to be in position, and he will know where all the bodies are buried; without the requirement for the heavyweight design review that a new appointee would require to take up the lead, in what is already a very crowded season.

 

We must assume that there will be some candidates eager to replace him. Nothing like being the shight in nining armour charging to the rescue, when all is in disarray. You are hardly likely to make matters worse...

I think the main criteria is a rather LARGE pair of BALLS.

[Andrew P]

So, who is a Complete Drive, and will Bahrain give us that answer?

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/56270/complete-drivers-can-handle-difficult-bahrain-oval-f1/?fbclid=IwAR2kLuPNtHZ_KqaQgv_MLHt549vzybtvL-Sog124ua_JWXYPkxcn1vhkbBk

[57xx]

5 hours ago, Andrew P said:

Horner bored with one stop races, is that because RBR do the fastest and therefore THEY would gain an advantage?

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/56242/horner-bored-with-one-stop-races-demands-strategy-shake-up/?fbclid=IwAR1Vvcj0VS_mn16dz5k6Ehr6o8Sn757zp4nbgESs9ABlRGbjDwg4iC2TrrY

 

I agree with him, pit stops are boring. Period. They're an artificial way to try and affect the outcome of the race. Get rid of them altogether, let the racing happen on track.
 

[PaulRhB]

17 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

I agree with him, pit stops are boring. Period. They're an artificial way to try and affect the outcome of the race. Get rid of them altogether, let the racing happen on track.
 

Doesn’t Horner want more stops? Need to sort tyres out for no stops  

Quote from the GPfans link

“"I think you need to have two-to-three-stop races, I think that mixes the order up, mixes the strategy up.”

Edited September 1, 2020 by PaulRhB

[Classsix T]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I believe that among other things he headed the engine development under the previous great leader? His superiors at the time will have approved, but the chalice and its toxic contents will have his fingerprints all over it.

 

 

Some might feel that it is surprising he's still in post on observable underperformance grounds : except of course that someone with the chops for it has to be in position, and he will know where all the bodies are buried; without the requirement for the heavyweight design review that a new appointee would require to take up the lead, in what is already a very crowded season.

 

We must assume that there will be some candidates eager to replace him. Nothing like being the shight in knining armour charging to the rescue, when all is in disarray. You are hardly likely to make matters worse...

This. But unless Binotto is a total numbnut, will have all the pieces in place that come fair weather or foul, he'll do very well thankyouverymuch. 

 

C6T. 

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, Andrew P said:

So, who is a Complete Drive, and will Bahrain give us that answer?

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/56270/complete-drivers-can-handle-difficult-bahrain-oval-f1/?fbclid=IwAR2kLuPNtHZ_KqaQgv_MLHt549vzybtvL-Sog124ua_JWXYPkxcn1vhkbBk

 

Need to get Mansell back, then, for Ferrari, he proved rather good on the ovals!

Edited September 1, 2020 by Hobby

[Dunsignalling]

14 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Doesn’t Horner want more stops? Need to sort tyres out for no stops  

Quote from the GPfans link

“"I think you need to have two-to-three-stop races, I think that mixes the order up, mixes the strategy up.”

Pirelli undoubtedly mess about with the tyres (at the behest of F1) to make things more "interesting", along with the wholly artificial requirement to use two different grades through the course of a race. 

 

Tyre life in formulae that don't impose such arbitrary oddities is much greater, often on cars with more bhp and weight than F1.

 

They could almost certainly make tyres that could last a whole GP, it's just that nobody wants them to because, having done away with refuelling, there's a need to mix things up to prevent races becoming too processional.

 

Maybe there's a case for insisting on teams using all three grades at least once and no grade more than twice.

 

That really would get the strategists twitching....

 

John

 

 

 

 

[57xx]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

Doesn’t Horner want more stops? Need to sort tyres out for no stops  

 

Yes he does. I was only agreeing with him saying pit stops are boring.

 

It would be easy to sort the tyres out, they are only as they are because that's what the FIA asked Pirelli to produce - a tyre that won't last the whole race.

[PaulRhB]

2 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I believe that among other things he headed the engine development under the previous great leader? His superiors at the time will have approved,

Thing is though it wasn’t proved to be illegal so while all the others are crying cheat is it really that different from the Mercedes moving steering wheel? Clever pushing of the boundary to get all that power and if they’d had less strategic and driver cock ups it could have been a lot closer before the regs strangled them  Sure they’ve been tripped up by the regs clarification because the whole car is designed around that engine and the clarification came so late I guess they were stuffed by it for this year. I guess that’s why Binotto survived so far as they think it may be possible to find the power again somehow and then the car works. If there’s no other engine genius available they are rather daft to drop their best man on it.
Looking how fast McLaren turned round their aero mess it’s possible without spending the usual Ferrari money. What’s bizarre is they seem to be going slower and slower as the season progresses, is that the engine or aero getting worse as they try things?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

Thing is though it wasn’t proved to be illegal so while all the others are crying cheat is it really that different from the Mercedes moving steering wheel? Clever pushing of the boundary...

 

What’s bizarre is they seem to be going slower and slower as the season progresses, is that the engine or aero getting worse as they try things?

What's different is 'Immediately cease infringing the regs', as against 'Very clever, we'll alter the regs to outlaw it next season'.

 

Ferrari going slower, or the competitors going faster, or a bit of both? Ferrari have lost their development track on the PU at least, while the competition are on planned development paths. So as the competitors improve, Ferrari lose ground. We don't have a clue what the status of their PU now is. It could be a two years past PU that is now their base for development, that's a lot of ground to make up. Try for ambitious upgrade steps in season with the only test opportunity occurring at the race meets, and the anticipated gain may not be delivered. 

[Hobby]

8 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

What's different is 'Immediately cease infringing the regs' (Ferrari), as against 'Very clever, we hadn't  thought of that so you've not infringed the regs but we'll alter the regs to outlaw it next season' (Mercedes).

 

Just seen this as well, don't think it's been posted before...

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Hobby

[Andrew P]

48 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

Just seen this as well, don't think it's been posted before...

 

 

Yes, very interesting indeed.

[RedgateModels]

15 hours ago, friscopete said:

According my friend ,an intinerant F1 engine builder(honest )Ferrari couldnt organise a booze up in brewery unless a foreigner told them how to do it . Its aways been so .An Englishmen made their cars reliable in the 50's and it has been similar ever since ..brilliant Engineers but departmental in fighting ,back stabbing ,blaming everything but themselves .The Schumi glory days were all led by foreigners  from design to  race management.Great name s already and ready to cheat and lie  to boost the team above its real potential with a compliant driver.Later additions didnt do so well as it gradually fell off a cliff led by red lemmings ..great looking cars though . 

 

True, the Ferrari flat 12 F1 engine was designed and tooled by Jowett

 

http://yorkshireferret.blogspot.com/2016/10/jowett-and-ferrari-boxer-f1-engine.html

[Andrew P]

17 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

 

True, the Ferrari flat 12 F1 engine was designed and tooled by Jowett

 

http://yorkshireferret.blogspot.com/2016/10/jowett-and-ferrari-boxer-f1-engine.html

Wow Ian, What a fantastic and fasinating insite into the Jowett / Ferrari project, and how lucky to find the original Log Book.

But of course until quite recently, possibly late 60's I would think, all Log Books, I'm thinking buff colourd folding card here, had previous owners full details etc.

[Oldddudders]

19 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

 

True, the Ferrari flat 12 F1 engine was designed and tooled by Jowett

 

http://yorkshireferret.blogspot.com/2016/10/jowett-and-ferrari-boxer-f1-engine.html

Well crikey! 

 

in 1965 a skoolchum passed his driving test, and a Jowett Bradford featured somewhere in his tuition schedule. We were heavily into Scalextric at the time, and his fave racer was a Ferrari 250 GTO. If only we'd known!

[Andrew P]

Gasley or Albon, where's YOUR money?

 TBH if I was Gasley, I would rather stay where I am, as I get on well with the Team, under less pressure, and can regularly beat his Team Mate.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53985873

[PaulRhB]

6 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Gasley or Albon, where's YOUR money?

 TBH if I was Gasley, I would rather stay where I am, as I get on well with the Team, under less pressure, and can regularly beat his Team Mate.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53985873

I think Red Bull need to calm down and give them a stable year to square up to Max. Valterri is struggling at times vs Lewis and he’s had a more gentle introduction. Pierre & Alex have both been good but have that pressure on top of various incidents. Pierre has shone again and Alex does well in most races but struggled in qualifying, this time he got the qualifying right but struggled in the race. 
Horner’s given him a bit of breathing space but there’s still the stress of knowing Marko tends to wield the axe. Danil and Pierre got axed quick, maybe the team need to give them a bit of time to adjust. Max didn’t come out of the box perfect, he has calmed down and massively improved over a few years and they expect the same performance instantly? 
How do you accurately compare Hamilton etc at the top of their powers to when they started?  

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

27 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

...How do you accurately compare Hamilton ... at the top of their powers to when they started? ...

Special case. Pipped at the post for the championship in his first season in a very competitive field, largely because of team errors; won the championship in his second year in another very competitive season. Complete article from day 1, outcompeting double champion Alonso as teammate over his first season, and for ever after. He has enhanced his natural talent by the benefit of experience - concentrating on always finishing, over riskier moves for the win - but the driving is what it always was from day 1 in F1: outstanding.

 

Note also that he has never had the appointed position in a team - as enjoyed by Schumacher and Vettel - of 'lead driver'; he has always had to compete with his teammate.

[daltonparva]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Special case. Pipped at the post for the championship in his first season in a very competitive field, largely because of team errors; won the championship in his second year in another very competitive season. Complete article from day 1, outcompeting double champion Alonso as teammate over his first season, and for ever after. He has enhanced his natural talent by the benefit of experience - concentrating on always finishing, over riskier moves for the win - but the driving is what it always was from day 1 in F1: outstanding.

 

Note also that he has never had the appointed position in a team - as enjoyed by Schumacher and Vettel - of 'lead driver'; he has always had to compete with his teammate.

He does it fairly and without cheating as well.