Mike Storey Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 I think we are clear of the highlights show etc?? If not, DO NOT read on..... The usual suspects at the front - no real surprises there, except that Vertappen is still giving Bottas a run for his money. But the rest of the field was a big surprise, especially with the Renaults and weirdly, the Alphas. Norris still seems to take his time. Not a great sign. Sainz seems to do more with the package, when he isn't breaking down. Russell was unlucky. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted August 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mike Storey said: Russell was unlucky. You could say he was exceedingly lucky, that could have been very nasty given what happened last year. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 1 minute ago, 57xx said: You could say he was exceedingly lucky, that could have been very nasty given what happened last year. True - I didn't think of it that way. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 30, 2020 Author Share Posted August 30, 2020 The next two Races on Ferrari home soil will be very painful for them, exsecially after Leclerc's win last year. Will Lewis make it to 91 at Ferrari's TEST TRACK? 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted August 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2020 It certainly seems to be the first three drivers versus the rest of the grid at the moment. Russell was both unlucky with the timing, but also very lucky that that loose tyre from Giovinazzi didn’t impact directly with him. Otherwise the outcome had the potential to be much worse. The less said about Ferrari the better. It’s rather sad to see. Not that it’s likely to happen, but I would love to see how good Verstappen would be in the Mercedes alongside Lewis. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted August 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, 4630 said: Not that it’s likely to happen, but I would love to see how good Verstappen would be in the Mercedes alongside Lewis. They should add one more race, post season and have a shuffle about in the cars. Do a "wife-swap" Grand Prix and chuck all the car keys* into a bowl, drivers pick one out at random. Then we can see how everyone performs in other cars. *yes, I know they don't use keys... 4 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted August 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2020 1 minute ago, 57xx said: They should add one more race, post season and have a shuffle about in the cars. Do a "wife-swap" Grand Prix and chuck all the car keys* into a bowl, drivers pick one out at random. Then we can see how everyone performs in other cars. *yes, I know they don't use keys... That’s an outlandishly wonderful idea. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mudmagnet Posted August 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2020 There was a shot of Sainz in the garage, not looking too happy, whether that was because he couldn't start the race or whether is next year or was going to be the wrong decision.... Certainly looks as if the red cars are going backwards in more ways than one .... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, mudmagnet said: There was a shot of Sainz in the garage, not looking too happy, whether that was because he couldn't start the race or whether is next year or was going to be the wrong decision.... One of the C4 commentators said "He'll be looking at his contract for next year to see if he can find a way out of it." If he did, would Ferrari take Vettel back? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, RJS1977 said: One of the C4 commentators said "He'll be looking at his contract for next year to see if he can find a way out of it." If he did, would Ferrari take Vettel back? They'd take Raikonen back first - dependable number two. Vettel wouldn't be staying at Ferrari - there is a loss of trust on both sides. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Just now, woodenhead said: They'd take Raikonen back first - dependable number two. Vettel wouldn't be staying at Ferrari - there is a loss of trust on both sides. And anyway it would be too complicated unless McLaren agreed to let Ricciardo go to Ferrari to keep Sainz. It's a train of contracts, drivers cannot simply change their minds, but whoever was advising Sainz was possibly not not looking at current performance. Didn't Alonso have something to do with Sainz. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 59 minutes ago, 4630 said: Not that it’s likely to happen, but I would love to see how good Verstappen would be in the Mercedes alongside Lewis. What I would like to see would be Verstappen in a Williams alongside Lewis, with say Ericsson and Russell in the Mercs. That way as well as comparing non-teammates, we'd also get to see which of the regular front runners are flattered by their cars, and which of the drivers near the back of the grid are being hampered by theirs. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 56 minutes ago, Mike Storey said: ...the rest of the field was a big surprise, especially with the Renaults... Norris still seems to take his time. Not a great sign. Sainz seems to do more with the package, when he isn't breaking down... The Renault set up was well judged for the circuit, and was impressively used. Ricciardo really made the most of it; and reminded us if we needed it that he's another that needs a better machine. Bottom line with Norris that cannot be argued with, is that he is extracting as much outcome from his car as seems feasible. Here's a guy that looks after his kit and brings it home reliably. Might there be a bit more aggression if he had a potent machine? 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted August 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2020 Norris has scored almost twice as many points as experienced Sainz, who after all is to replace Vettel at Ferrari next year. While Sainz had bad luck yesterday, Norris is generally up the road from him at race-end this year, and seldom out of the points so far. An impressive performance to my mind. 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted August 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2020 12 hours ago, 57xx said: They should add one more race, post season and have a shuffle about in the cars. Do a "wife-swap" Grand Prix and chuck all the car keys* into a bowl, drivers pick one out at random. Then we can see how everyone performs in other cars. *yes, I know they don't use keys... Or a drivers "pass the parcel" - each unwrap reveals a team. Pity the last two drivers where the options might be between a duff car and a goodun... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 31, 2020 Author Share Posted August 31, 2020 Is Moner Honer going to start again? https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/56209/quot-sour-taste-quot-for-horner-over-fishy-ferrari-that-cost-red-bull-2019-wins/?fbclid=IwAR0AHZd6AsoCUW9SJONn-SDMTcInSm7pVzCI9AgrPGryoLpIP3Z5Q7oIyY0 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 12 hours ago, mudmagnet said: Certainly looks as if the red cars are going backwards in more ways than one .... Too true. Interesting graphic towards the end of the C4 qualifying highlights, showing a comparison of fastest qualifying times by teams between 2019 and 2020. All teams showed small improvements year on year (with Williams and Alpha Tauri the largest), except for one, who showed a significant drop off. in other words, Ferrari don’t appear to have made any real improvement since having to abandon the “feature” that enhanced their performance last year. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted August 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2020 41 minutes ago, Andrew P said: Is Moner Honer going to start again? https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/56209/quot-sour-taste-quot-for-horner-over-fishy-ferrari-that-cost-red-bull-2019-wins/?fbclid=IwAR0AHZd6AsoCUW9SJONn-SDMTcInSm7pVzCI9AgrPGryoLpIP3Z5Q7oIyY0 Sadly this link doesn't work, but if it is Horner on about the engine deal between FIA and Ferrari I am inclined to be pleased. Red Bull has the cash to go to any court in the world, and if it can get Todt and Co indicted for a cover up with Ferrari I believe we would all be pleased. A good shakeout of who does what in motorsport is long overdue. Perhaps the trough in future will look rather less deep thanks to Covid, and that may just bring a little more sport and a lot less money on board. 4 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted August 31, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 31, 2020 FIA investigating loose wheel. https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/56217/fia-to-investigate-concerning-giovinazzi-loose-wheel/ 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 13 hours ago, 57xx said: They should add one more race, post season and have a shuffle about in the cars ... Then we can see how everyone performs in other cars. The concept is fun, but it would be a meaningless mess because of the learning curve for each driver with a different car. 12 hours ago, RJS1977 said: ...we'd also get to see which of the regular front runners are flattered by their cars, and which of the drivers near the back of the grid are being hampered by theirs. That's easily gauged among all the cars, except the dire Williams. Performance in the wet has always been the reliable discriminator between the superlatively gifted and the very good: uncontrolled variable conditions are the test. Hamilton is the known current performer, nobody else on the grid is proven as anywhere near as good. Among the newcomers, disappointingly Leclerc hasn't got it. 12 hours ago, RJS1977 said: One of the C4 commentators said "He (Sainz) will be looking at his contract for next year to see if he can find a way out of it." He'll quite possibly develop a full on Alonso-alike personality if McLaren can make a good job of the Merc power plant installation for 2021. I reckon McLaren should be at least on par with Red Bull, the chassis is good, it's clearly the power that's currently lacking. 51 minutes ago, Andrew P said: Is Moaner Horner going to start again? He too will be yet unhappier if the McLaren-Merc fusion proves to be a goodun. 18 minutes ago, EddieB said: ... Ferrari don’t appear to have made any real improvement since having to abandon the “feature” that enhanced their performance last year. Make that the last 2 years. Might well be more than just the fuel management arrangement. This incident does indicate very clearly how significant the incremental steps development path is in this format. Unwinding back to a 'conforms to regulations' state from which to restart development is deeply problematic. Much of the knowledge and data within the team is junk, some of the key engineers will be demoralised: while those who are still up for it will have to do what they can within the only testing the current regs permit, essentially the race meetings. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 31, 2020 Author Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Oldddudders said: Sadly this link doesn't work, but if it is Horner on about the engine deal between FIA and Ferrari I am inclined to be pleased. Red Bull has the cash to go to any court in the world, and if it can get Todt and Co indicted for a cover up with Ferrari I believe we would all be pleased. A good shakeout of who does what in motorsport is long overdue. Perhaps the trough in future will look rather less deep thanks to Covid, and that may just bring a little more sport and a lot less money on board. It just worked again for me Ian, but here it is. "Sour taste" for Horner over fishy Ferrari that cost Red Bull 2019 wins Christian Horner believes Ferrari's downfall has underlined the fact Red Bull was potentially robbed of victories in 2019. The Ferrari power unit emerged as the class act of the field last season until technical directives from the FIA late on regarding fuel flow and oil-burning brought an abrupt end to its superiority. A confidential settlement reached with the FIA over the winter following “a thorough technical investigation” only added fuel to the fire, even if no evidence of wrongdoing was discovered. The upshot, however, has been the Scuderia's shocking performance this season that reached its nadir in Belgium where the team delivered its worst two-car finish for a decade as Sebastian Vettel and Charles Leclerc could only manage 13th and 14th. "I think the whole thing has left quite a sour taste," said team boss Horner referring to the seemingly clandestine agreement between Ferrari and the FIA. "Obviously, you can draw your own conclusions from Ferrari's current performance. But there's races that we should have won last year, arguably, if had they run with an engine that seems to be quite different to all the performance they had last year." For once, Horner agreed with Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff who earlier in the weekend had questioned decisions made by certain individuals within the Scuderia for its slump. "It is obviously very tough for them but their focus has obviously been on the wrong areas in previous years which is why they seem to be struggling a little with whatever was in that agreement," added Horner. Rating the four engine manufacturers this season, Horner concluded with one final twist of the knife as he said: "I think you have got Mercedes as a clear leader. "Then you have got Honda and Renault who are reasonably close depending on circuits and conditions. "Then you have got Ferrari, obviously, at the back of the queue." AP. Edited August 31, 2020 by Andrew P 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted August 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: Performance in the wet has always been the reliable discriminator between the superlatively gifted and the very good: uncontrolled variable conditions are the test. Hamilton is the known current performer, nobody else on the grid is proven as anywhere near as good. I’d say Verstappen has also proved to be a master in the wet I think they are the two best at adapting to the car’s quirks while others fall off quite a lot if the car isn’t set up to suit them. Albon has been one of two, guess who else , that seem to have suffered most noticeably with this this year. I think like Mansell they have a slightly heavier boot that brings out the twitchy nature of a car on the limit and they lose a bit of time saving it. Alex certainly has the guts and skill and if he can improve his consistency a bit he really will push Max. You’ve got to feel a little sorry for Bottas and Albon in an identical car to Hamilton and Verstappen and having less experience of the car too. F1 can be cruel when up against the genius drivers 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted August 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2020 Horner is not wrong about the engine pecking order. Six Ferrari-engined cars started yesterday, and finished 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th and 17th - of 17. Kimi's Alfa even beat the works cars - what?! Comparison with 12 months ago is astonishing. This is a team in horrendous disarray. Poor Binotto, who is simply the holder of the poison chalice, and widely believed to be a good engineer who deserves better, must be sore in a lot of places right now. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, PaulRhB said: I’d say Verstappen has also proved to be a master in the wet ... Definitely the best of the rest, but has yet to do it while taking the title. That's where driver psychology starts to matter, because the present points format favours finishing every race, over going all out for wins but with some DNF's consequently thrown in. Will he still go for it without reservation when the title is a realistic prospect? 34 minutes ago, PhilJ W said: FIA investigating loose wheel... Too much force was applied! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Andrew P said: Is Moner Honer going to start again? Link worked fine for me, Andrew! I wouldn't call that moaning, though, he's just stating the facts, they cheated to win. 59 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: The concept is fun, but it would be a meaningless mess because of the learning curve for each driver with a different car. Though I hate the modern incarnation of the programme, Top Gear showed how find out who's the best driver, certainly over one lap! Edited August 31, 2020 by Hobby 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now