Formula 1, 2020

[newbryford]

7 hours ago, Chrisr40 said:

Red bull red faced...if they hadn't gone for fastest lap they would have got the win.

 

Hindsight is a science, foresight is an art.

[skipepsi]

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

 

Hindsight is a science, foresight is an art.

Being right every time is a feminine skill...

[ess1uk]

I did wonder if Lewis would stop immediately after the chequered flag to save another lap and possible damage from the tyre.

 

i my other thought was could he have pulled into the pits and crossed the line there?

is that legal?

didn't Schumacher finish a British GP in the pits serving a penalty?

[Andrew P]

1 minute ago, ess1uk said:

I did wonder if Lewis would stop immediately after the chequered flag to save another lap and possible damage from the tyre.

 

i my other thought was could he have pulled into the pits and crossed the line there?

is that legal?

didn't Schumacher finish a British GP in the pits serving a penalty?

They / The Team probably didn't want any grey areas that could have caused an investigation or appeal by Mr Moan, AKA, CH of RBR.

[PaulRhB]

If he’d stuffed it into the wall or spun on the grass on the narrow pit approach it would have rather ruined his day though and he was able to gun the throttle to the line to save Max catching him out on the track  

He said in the interview he’d put full throttle in twice, and struggled slowing down!,  to try and make it to the line first. 

[ess1uk]

All the more reason to stop it rather than risk trying to get round another lap waving to the crowds

[Andrew P]

Just now, ess1uk said:

All the more reason to stop it rather than risk trying to get round another lap waving to the crowds

You mean NONE CROWDS, haha. Although I expect the Marshalls did appreciate it, as it was said that they had no Race commentary over the PA, so the ones on the far side of the Circuit may not have known that he had both finished, and Won.

[Oldddudders]

I see poor Nico's problem was a sheared bolt in the gearbox, which jammed the engine. 

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, ess1uk said:

 

i my other thought was could he have pulled into the pits and crossed the line there?

is that legal?

didn't Schumacher finish a British GP in the pits serving a penalty?

 

It felt wrong when Schumacher did it, so a rule may well have been changed/added to stop it happening again.

[mudmagnet]

1 hour ago, ess1uk said:

I did wonder if Lewis would stop immediately after the chequered flag to save another lap and possible damage from the tyre.

 

i my other thought was could he have pulled into the pits and crossed the line there?

is that legal?

didn't Schumacher finish a British GP in the pits serving a penalty?

I wonder whether that was to show that the car was still drivable, albeit at slow pace, i.e. not "unsafe".

 

 

[John Harris]

There is an old adage in the motor industry, “Race on Sunday—Sell on Monday”, attributed to all sorts of people and used in advertising campaigns over the years.  I am guessing that Pirelli tyres are not the top sellers at Kwik-Fit this morning.

[PaulRhB]

51 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I see poor Nico's problem was a sheared bolt in the gearbox, which jammed the engine. 

Good job they didn’t happen at speed! 

[Gareth Collier]

1 hour ago, John Harris said:

There is an old adage in the motor industry, “Race on Sunday—Sell on Monday”, attributed to all sorts of people and used in advertising campaigns over the years.  I am guessing that Pirelli tyres are not the top sellers at Kwik-Fit this morning.

As mentioned earlier Pirelli are on a hiding to nothing. The failure is nothing to do with them. They construct the tyres as instructed by the FIA with a limited lifespan to artificially create drama and excitement. The tyres come with a recommended race distance so when the teams choose to exceed that what are Pirelli supposed to do?

[PhilJ W]

Most if not all tyre manufacturers sell more tyres under names other than their own. Its only when you compare the tyres side by side that you will see that the only difference is the name on the sidewall. And the price, the 'big name' tyre will be the more expensive. I think that the FIA should drop the limited life tyres idea anyway as most teams try to push the envelope and sooner or later there's going to be an accident due to tyre failure. 

[Bill Radford]

The tyre problems were maybe not as much of a surprise after Giovinazzi's spin and subsequent tyre delaminations in P1? I've never seen tyres delaminate after a spin before.

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

I think that the FIA should drop the limited life tyres idea anyway as most teams try to push the envelope and sooner or later there's going to be an accident due to tyre failure. 

 

Softer tyres give more grip but they wear more quickly. There comes a point of hardness when it actually becomes quicker to pit for a new set of tyres which can be driven faster. F1 tried to limit teams to just 1 set of tyres several years ago, but this proved dangerous.

It is the nature of competition to push anything as hard as you can get away with. If there is anything left to spare, you are not pushing hard enough. With this in mind, teams & drivers will always occasionally push too hard & something will give.

 

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

Most if not all tyre manufacturers sell more tyres under names other than their own. Its only when you compare the tyres side by side that you will see that the only difference is the name on the sidewall.

 

Manufacturers do indeed have lesser known brands, but "the only difference is the name on the sidewall" is very wrong.

Tread & the compound used will vary. An 'alternative' brand will give poorer grip & not last as long as a premium one.

For some circles of rubber, there is a lot of technology involved.

Performance car owners talk about tyres more than most, but we all want our tyres to grip when we need to do an emergency stop.

[ejstubbs]

3 hours ago, John Harris said:

There is an old adage in the motor industry, “Race on Sunday—Sell on Monday”

 

More correctly the adage is "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday".  For obvious reasons.  And Pirelli did win - although in fact of course no one could have beaten them because they are the sole supplier to F1.  But as I and others have pointed out, the tyre performance requirements are set by the powers that be in F1.  It's not Pirelli's fault the specs they build to are distorted.

[ejstubbs]

33 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

For some circles of rubber, there is a lot of technology involved.

 

I don't know much about the construction of F1 tyres, but tyres for normal road cars contain a lot more than just rubber!  There is usually a good proportion of steel and polymer fibre in there as well, forming the plies.

 

It was actually Pirelli who developed the first example of a wrap-around radial tyre structure, in 1952.  This was a refinement on the original type of radial tyre, as developed by Michelin just after WWII.  The wrap-around circumferential ply belts under the tread stop the tyre increasing in diameter when inflated and help to keep the tread profile flatter.  Originally called Cintura, meaning simply "belt", the name was changed in 1963 to Cinturato, meaning "belted".

[Andrew P]

I wonder if there trying to make Vettel jump ship, so as not to have to pay him any more?

https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/29587449/vettel-british-gp-struggles-stack-up

Edited August 3, 2020 by Andrew P

[57xx]

On 02/08/2020 at 17:17, PaulRhB said:

 I wondered how they measure the ride height! We always hear they run over the marbles to pick up rubber to pass it  

 

They run over the marbles to increase the weight of the car to make sure they don't fall foul of minimum weight limits. Ride height is assessed by wear on the plank. If the plank is worn too much, you're running too low and risk disqualification.

[ess1uk]

22 hours ago, Gareth Collier said:

As mentioned earlier Pirelli are on a hiding to nothing. The failure is nothing to do with them. They construct the tyres as instructed by the FIA with a limited lifespan to artificially create drama and excitement. The tyres come with a recommended race distance so when the teams choose to exceed that what are Pirelli supposed to do?

Use Lego tyres.

I’ve never had a Lego tyre failure.

they are the worlds biggest tyre manufacturer as well 

[Oldddudders]

11 hours ago, 57xx said:

 

They run over the marbles to increase the weight of the car to make sure they don't fall foul of minimum weight limits. Ride height is assessed by wear on the plank. If the plank is worn too much, you're running too low and risk disqualification.

At some point on C4 on Sunday there was mention of marbles, or their current lack of. It seems the present Pirelli compounds no longer produce anything like the same degree of marbles as heretofore. This also effectively widens the track later in the race, when traditionally there was so much detritus off the racing line that it compromised anyone daring to use it. 

 

Tyres no longer "fall off the cliff" with sudden loss of performance when worn, now no marbles, either - no wonder that Pirelli built in a self-destruct element to compensate!

[Hroth]

36 minutes ago, ess1uk said:

Use Lego tyres.

I’ve never had a Lego tyre failure.

they are the worlds biggest tyre manufacturer as well 

 

I'm looking forward to the Lego equivalent of the old Pirelli Calender!

 

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

 

I'm looking forward to the Lego equivalent of the old Pirelli Calender!

 

There'd no doubt be quite a lot of plastic involved in the advent of the former or a revival of the latter.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[57xx]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

At some point on C4 on Sunday there was mention of marbles, or their current lack of. It seems the present Pirelli compounds no longer produce anything like the same degree of marbles as heretofore. This also effectively widens the track later in the race, when traditionally there was so much detritus off the racing line that it compromised anyone daring to use it.

 

Yeah, I heard them saying that too. Hadn't even noticed on the track, it's usually quite obvious. A good thing if it allows more chances for overtaking off-line.