I've just lost over 50 years of age..:-)

[Reorte]

Just now, TheQ said:

But you already have your  ID number...

 

 

This was introduced for WW2 ID cards, and the numbers were taken over by the National insurance system..

 

Not terribly keen on that being compulsory either, but it's still not the same as an ID card. Any compulsory form of recording, demanding information etc. I find obnoxious. A degree of it is necessary for society to function but more than the absolute minimum I'll never find acceptable.

 

It's not inconsistent to tolerate a degree of it either, otherwise it's a game of calling someone a hypocrite if they don't go for one extreme or the other (I think most of us will agree that the ideal lies somewhere between anarchy and the most restrictive authoritarian police state imaginable).

[Nick C]

25 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

Not terribly keen on that being compulsory either, but it's still not the same as an ID card. Any compulsory form of recording, demanding information etc. I find obnoxious. A degree of it is necessary for society to function but more than the absolute minimum I'll never find acceptable.

 

It's not inconsistent to tolerate a degree of it either, otherwise it's a game of calling someone a hypocrite if they don't go for one extreme or the other (I think most of us will agree that the ideal lies somewhere between anarchy and the most restrictive authoritarian police state imaginable).

IMHO the main objection to the ID cards was that we'd have to pay for them.

 

My wife, being from the continent, has an ID card. She finds it utterly baffling that we can 'prove' ID for many things using a utility bill, which must be one of the easiest things ever to forge...

[woodenhead]

28 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

It's not inconsistent to tolerate a degree of it either, otherwise it's a game of calling someone a hypocrite if they don't go for one extreme or the other (I think most of us will agree that the ideal lies somewhere between anarchy and the most restrictive authoritarian police state imaginable).

With the latest step being a proposal that all users of mobile phones must register their face to be able to us it so that they always know who uses which phone - as most internet use is done via phones.

[Reorte]

14 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

With the latest step being a proposal that all users of mobile phones must register their face to be able to us it so that they always know who uses which phone - as most internet use is done via phones.

 

What a scary thought.

[Reorte]

17 minutes ago, Nick C said:

My wife, being from the continent, has an ID card. She finds it utterly baffling that we can 'prove' ID for many things using a utility bill, which must be one of the easiest things ever to forge...

 

Rather questionable-sounding alternatives are definitely the lesser evil IMO. What's more disturbing though is the expectation that having to prove your ID is a normal and routine part of everyday life.

[kevinlms]

20 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

With the latest step being a proposal that all users of mobile phones must register their face to be able to us it so that they always know who uses which phone - as most internet use is done via phones.

Has not Hong Kong introduced it recently, or was it China?

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

Has not Hong Kong introduced it recently, or was it China?

China

[101]

On 10/12/2019 at 14:35, gordon s said:

There I was working away on ET, when the front door rang. An Amazon delivery of what appeared to be a bottle of something. Ooh, very nice....

 

Only problem was the delivery guy had to have proof I was over 18....

 

For those that don't know me, I'm over 70 and been retired for years.  There then followed a bit of banter, but he wouldn't leave the parcel without proof. 

 

.......and it's not a scam....

 

The world's gone mad. I'll drink to that.....

 

 

 

 

 

Just had exactly the same thing from Amazon, with a delivery of a couple of razor saws! 

The driver was happy to accept a driving license as ID but he wrote down my DOB! 

[gordon s]

Hadn't realised I'd missed that bit out in my original post. You're quite right, he took my date of birth from my passport and added it to his small delivery tablet. I guess they get round that with their privacy laws statement and I have no problem with it providing that data is secure.

 

I must be a simple soul as none of that bothered me, just made me laugh having to prove I was over 18.....

[BernardTPM]

2 hours ago, woodenhead said:

With the latest step being a proposal that all users of mobile phones must register their face to be able to us it so that they always know who uses which phone - as most internet use is done via phones.

I'm glad to say I don't have one of those nasty things either.

[SM42]

 

4 hours ago, Bill Radford said:

Remember all the hooha when the government wanted to bring in ID cards.....

 

4 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

Quite rightly so too. Thank heavens that was thrown out in the end.

 

The reason I think it was thrown out was because it was a catch all card rather than purely a way to identify yourself when required. Mrs SM42's card has very little personal information on it beyond the obvious, but does include her country's equivalent of the NI number.

 

The beauty is that when abroad you don't have to carry your passport everywhere  and an ID card is waterproof.

 

Then other beauty is it fits in easily a wallet / purse and as there is so much of normal life that depends on ID in the UK nowadays (and I suspect soon to become even more widespread)  I find it hard to argue against the idea. After all, can you prove you are a British citizen at all times?

 

As for proving age, many moons ago when a fresh faced 19 year old, I and some friends were challenged one new year's eve at the door our local pub, by the landlord, about our ages.

 

"Over 18?" was our reply, "We've been drinking here since we were 15"

 

A rather confused look spread across his face followed by "Ok lads in you go"

 

Andy

Edited December 12, 2019 by SM42

[Reorte]

7 minutes ago, SM42 said:

Then other beauty is it fits in easily a wallet / purse and as there is so much of normal life that depends on ID in the UK nowadays (and I suspect soon to become even more widespread)  I find it hard to argue against the idea. After all, can you prove you are a British citizen at all times?

 

No, I can't, and don't regard that as a problem. That so much of normal life depends upon ID is a negative mark against life nowadays (although thankfully I seem to miss most of it).

 

It might be hard to argue against the idea if you don't have a fundamental dislike of all that sort of thing (it's nothing to do with fear of misuse either), but unfortunately (apologies if this comes across as a bit of an attack, that's not my intention) it seems quite common for people to not share a particular feeling about an issue and say "don't see the problem, so you shouldn't either." People aren't great at empathising with likes and dislikes they don't hold.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Reorte

[Classsix T]

It's in the British psyche, "papers please" is a phrase we've been taught to detest. For the benefit of making us compliant of conflict with others, perhaps. 

But to save treasury money on stuff like pavement pounding law enforcement, it'd be cool if government could film you without your permission and keep your DNA profile indefinitely. Better still, chip us all. Cos, if you've nothing to hide... 

Like Parliament expenses?

 

Sorry guys, I'm with Reorte on this, there's a creeping malaise of unnecessary knowledge of what the innocent public are up to disguised as national security and frankly, it stinks.

 

20 B&H, case of Kronenbourg, a pack of Stanley knife blades and a tube of superglue please sonny. I went to school with your Dad, yes I'm old enough. C6T. 

[eastglosmog]

I have no complaint about people carrying an ID card if they want to.  Very much object to somebody demanding that I do.

[Jonboy]

Slightly surprised earlier as I bought a bottle of wine and 4 bottles of ale in the local coop on their self service machine, paying in cash.
No red light and eternal wait for ID check, and no staff member on the main tills to approve remotely, so not sure how they checked....unless it simply not a yoof choice of alcohol...

[jcredfer]

2 hours ago, Jonboy said:

Slightly surprised earlier as I bought a bottle of wine and 4 bottles of ale in the local coop on their self service machine, paying in cash.
No red light and eternal wait for ID check, and no staff member on the main tills to approve remotely, so not sure how they checked....unless it simply not a yoof choice of alcohol...

 

........   pay by cash, no problem there then....

 

J

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, jcredfer said:

 

........   pay by cash, no problem there then....

Self service tills normally flash up a light for a member of staff to come along and approve alcohol purchases.

[Bill Radford]

My point was that now we are expected to carry photo ID.

[SM42]

18 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

No, I can't, and don't regard that as a problem. That so much of normal life depends upon ID is a negative mark against life nowadays (although thankfully I seem to miss most of it).

 

It might be hard to argue against the idea if you don't have a fundamental dislike of all that sort of thing (it's nothing to do with fear of misuse either), but unfortunately (apologies if this comes across as a bit of an attack, that's not my intention) it seems quite common for people to not share a particular feeling about an issue and say "don't see the problem, so you shouldn't either." People aren't great at empathising with likes and dislikes they don't hold.

 

My bold: It didn't.

 

Debate is what it is all about,

 

I just happen to believe that an ID card that contains basic information about a person, that is already recorded elsewhere, in one handy place is nothing to fear.  However I also understand those who see it as more sinister and I can't help thinking that  someone, somewhere will be trying to make it more complicated than it needs to be (which is why it was thrown out last time)

 

 

Andy

Edited December 13, 2019 by SM42

[chris p bacon]

14 hours ago, Classsix T said:

Sorry guys, I'm with Reorte on this, there's a creeping malaise of unnecessary knowledge of what the innocent public are up to disguised as national security and frankly, it stinks.

 

And yet the reality is companies such as facebook hold just as much  information on you, whether you are signed up to them or not.

[melmerby]

On 11/12/2019 at 19:55, Tony_S said:

 My driving licence is paper only, though I will get a photo version in a couple of years. Perhaps wait till then to order stuff. 

I thought those were all withdrawn years ago.

I had to get a plastic one many years ago and lost some of my classes in the process.

[SM42]

7 minutes ago, Bill Radford said:

My point was that now we are expected to carry photo ID.

 

This is, unfortunatley, becoming the norm and I can only see it getting worse.

 

Mum doesn't have a current passport or driving licence. Bills are on the internet and print outs are not accepted. Accessing any financial service is a nightmare. She could use her disabled badge, but that's in the car and the bus pass doesn't count as ID.

 

With the current political direction the country is taking, photo ID will become more and more important to access the services we take for granted, as well  as buying age restricted products.

 

Andy

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

In Spain, signed for deliveries (and some not signed for) need the receiving persons NIE number, equivalent to the UK NI number, but not necessarily proof of it, so if you know your NIE number off by heart it's acceptable.  It also applies to some what you would call normal purchases in certain shops.

Somewhat defeats the object IMHO.

 

Mike. 

[Reorte]

22 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

And yet the reality is companies such as facebook hold just as much  information on you, whether you are signed up to them or not.

 

Being against ID cards doesn't mean that I'm not against Facebook (it would be interesting to see just what information they've got about me but I can't do that without clearly letting them know I exist...)

[Reorte]

27 minutes ago, SM42 said:

 

My bold: It didn't.

 

Debate is what it is all about,

 

I just happen to believe that an ID card that contains basic information about a person, that is already recorded elsewhere, in one handy place is nothing to fear.  However I also understand those who see it as more sinister and I can't help thinking that  someone, somewhere will be trying to make it more complicated than it needs to be (which is why it was thrown out last time)

It's a bit hard to explain but it's not even fear but just a great dislike of the whole concept of tagging and recording people. Even if not misused and not sinister I find it all rather dehumanising in a way. Could be because I take a very individualistic view of things (at an individual level at any rate, although I suppose that sounds like a statement of the bleedingly obvious).