Speeding ticket heads up

[Ian J.]

When it comes to motorway driving, I prefer to try and keep an even 55/60 mph. Keeping with the lorries works about right, and saves on fuel. Plus, when my tomtom app tells me about speed cameras, I'm always under the national limit. Variable speed limit sections are a different matter of course, when they are down to 60, or below. I find I drift up from the speed limit on 30mph roads occasionally, and have to check myself and ease off the accelerator.

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

spedos are specifically designed to PREVENT a motorists speeding due to manufacturing tolerances where as Sat-Navs, etc are not.

 

If Sat-Navs were required to operate in the same way as spedos do then you would find they would no longer be 'accurate' - they would have to over read too!

And of course SatNavs require an accurate (within reason) speed calculation to enable them to give you an accurate “time of arrival” calculation, there is no reason for the SatNav manufacturers to go to the trouble of making the actual speed readout under read just to keep you safe from offence, so they don’t.

[boxbrownie]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

I regularly go past a couple of these and they are way out also varying day by day.

They can be adjusted by the user/operator, we had two bought by our Parish council to display speeds in areas which were prone to speeding cars, the person in charge of them adjusted them to read about 4 mph fast thinking it would scare people into thinking they were going too fast and slow down, it had the opposite effect eventually of drivers just not believing the readout speeds on the signs so inaccurate were they the drivers ignored them.

 

It took a few meetings before he could be convinced to readjust them so they read very slightly over and usually matched the speed on the drivers speedos more or less (adjusted to read 31.5mph when true speed was 30 mph) this then DID have the effect of making drivers aware just how much over they were going.

 

Better than nothing.

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

People buying VW cars assumed their engines met emissions standards. That ended well. 

Indeed, but the drivers were not prosecuted for driving with excess emissions......

[TheQ]

In a village I go through every morning on the work they installed in a 40 limit that went into panic "slow down" mode at 30 mph, so that too got ignored.. 

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, royaloak said:

When did they modify my Peugeot 106, 205 and Ford Fiesta, they were all fitted with cable speedos last time I looked?

 

What measures have been taken to alleviate the variation in speedo accuracy as the tyres wear, a worn tyre can have as much as 4% smaller circumference as a new tyre of the same size!

Which is just one of the reasons the speedos are calibrated to over read, not just for worn tyres but different size wheel tyre combinations on the same model of vehicle as there can be 2-3% difference in RC, manufacturers require some “wriggle room” for the model variations.

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, royaloak said:

 

 

What measures have been taken to alleviate the variation in speedo accuracy as the tyres wear, a worn tyre can have as much as 4% smaller circumference as a new tyre of the same size!

You would be running on canvas and wire for that, you would need to loose more than 10mm of rubber to get near that, for example a 175/60x18 tyre with tread worn to below the legal limit would only be only 2.7% less circumference which means the error would be slightly less than 2 mph.

[40F]

We are talking Northamptonshire Police here a tolerance point of slightly below zero

[alastairq]

6 hours ago, polybear said:

Now is foresee a rise in accidents cos' drivers are forever checking their speedos for being 1mph over the limit, instead of looking at the road.

 Then they are not 'competent' drivers...

[alastairq]

Is this 'zero tolerance' policy as a result of using average speed cameras? Or , devices to identify 'spot' speeds?

If the former, then the zero tolerance policy has better meaning...for to achieve an 'average' speed of 71mph, does mean that at some point on that road, the vehicle's speed was well in excess of the prevailing limit.

 

Back in the '50' & '60's, before the 70 mph maximum limit came into force [after a trial period].....generally speaking...drivers' abilities usually exceeded the abilities of  cars of the day.

Nowadays, generally speaking, the abilities of cars are way in excess of drivers' abilities.

Wherein lies the problem.

[Chris116]

I have long known that Northamptonshire was an area that was very hot on speeding. Even worse is the area around Ipswich where when I used to ride a motorbike I was stopped for slowing the traffic and causing an obstruction! It was a 30mph limit and the officer told me to speedup. I told him that my speedo was showing 30mph to which he said they had got me on their raygun at 29mph! I pointed out that as the limit was 30mph I was riding within the law to which he turned around and went away without even asking for my paperwork.

 

A few years later I was stopped on the M11 in my Reliant Robin. It was about 1am and I was on my way home from a Long Eaton Stock Car meeting. Officer got out of his car and came up as I opened my window. He demanded to see what engine was fitted as his raygun had recorded 102mph!!!!!! I told him it was a standard 750cc Reliant engine and got out and showed him the engine. He looked at me, said that he would be laughed out of court if he tried to prosecute me! He then told me not to let him catch me again and I just stopped myself from being clever aand asking him if that meant I should go faster next time.

 

Given that me speedo went into bounce mode over 55mph I never knew what I was doing on a motorway as the maximum speed the Robin was supposed to be capable of was 67mph so if the road was clear I just went as fast as I could.

[jonny777]

Have we been subjected to an internet urban myth, though? 

 

After a bit of online research, I found this quote - 

 

"At the start of 2019, rumours swept the internet that speed camera tolerances on certain motorways were so strict, they would issue tickets if drivers exceeded the 70mph limit by just 1mph.

Those stories turned out to be untrue and unfounded. But rather than allow misinformation about speed camera ‘thresholds’ to circulate unchecked, Auto Express asked the UK’s 45 police forces via Freedom of Information requests how strictly their 3,224 speed cameras enforce limits."

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/106674/uk-speed-camera-tolerances-revealed-is-your-cars-speedo-accurate

 

 

[Zero Gravitas]

11 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

Have we been subjected to an internet urban myth, though? 

 

After a bit of online research, I found this quote - 

 

"At the start of 2019, rumours swept the internet that speed camera tolerances on certain motorways were so strict, they would issue tickets if drivers exceeded the 70mph limit by just 1mph.

Those stories turned out to be untrue and unfounded. But rather than allow misinformation about speed camera ‘thresholds’ to circulate unchecked, Auto Express asked the UK’s 45 police forces via Freedom of Information requests how strictly their 3,224 speed cameras enforce limits."

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/106674/uk-speed-camera-tolerances-revealed-is-your-cars-speedo-accurate

 

 

 

Which is why I’ve asked the original poster to show us the documentation he received (suitably redacted).  

[jonny777]

14 minutes ago, Zero Gravitas said:

 

Which is why I’ve asked the original poster to show us the documentation he received (suitably redacted).  

 

 

And, most likely; why you have had no response to that request. 

[ejstubbs]

6 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

How can you tell whether your speedo is accurate or not

 

Use a GPS-based speedometer app on a smartphone.  Choose a straight, level, quiet stretch of road and see what speed the GPS speedometer says you are doing cf the speedo shown on your dashboard speedometer.  (As ever, while doing this make sure that you are driving safely and with proper consideration for other road users.  You might find it helpful to have a friend come along to note the GPS speeds for you.)

 

I keep tucked under my car's sun visor a concise table of the speed shown on the digital display on my dashboard at each true 10mph increment, as calibrated against GPS.  I hardly ever have to refer to it, though, as I've pretty much memorised it (there are only six numbers to remember!)

 

8 hours ago, polybear said:

In my 3-year old car there are two speedos - analogue and digital

 

Ditto in mine.  They both report the same inaccurate speeds, though - hardly surprisingly since they almost certainly both take the signal from the same sensor - or the same address in the ECU.  (I believe it's usually a rotational speed sensor on the gearbox output shaft these days - basically the same idea as the old cable driven system, but fully electronic rather than electro-mechanical.)

[jjb1970]

The speedo in my A6 is very accurate, when I check it at 70 with a GPS it is 68 - 69mph. So I treat it as an accurate reading and stay within speed limits as shown on the dial. 

[melmerby]

GPS accuracy varies from very good to poor depending where it is in use.

e.g. if the road is open and no tall buildings/trees/mountains in the way the GPS will use multiple satellites to give a very accurate reading.

However in between tall buildings, in mountainous country etc. the receiver might only get one good signal and that can degrade it's accuracy somewhat.

[friscopete]

16 hours ago, SRman said:

For my current car, a Honda CR-V, I haven't had it long enough to work out the speedo error, if any. It goes in to the dealers next week for its one-month first check-up.

 

New CRV's dont seem to register as my daughter has one ,drives like a maniac and never gets caught .She lives a mouse spit from the M3.The same rule may well apply to all Hondas as her Civic  was driven in a similar way .

[BoD]

35 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

 

 

And, most likely; why you have had no response to that request. 

 

Or, given the request was made 4 hours ago, the OP may have better things to do on a Sunday afternoon than come on here.

Or may not have time/facilities to scan or photograph the documentation.

Or may not have the time/facilities/skill to redact sections.
 

Talk about jumping to conclusions.

 

 

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, jonny777 said:

Have we been subjected to an internet urban myth, though? 

 

After a bit of online research, I found this quote - 

 

"At the start of 2019, rumours swept the internet that speed camera tolerances on certain motorways were so strict, they would issue tickets if drivers exceeded the 70mph limit by just 1mph.

Those stories turned out to be untrue and unfounded. But rather than allow misinformation about speed camera ‘thresholds’ to circulate unchecked, Auto Express asked the UK’s 45 police forces via Freedom of Information requests how strictly their 3,224 speed cameras enforce limits."

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/106674/uk-speed-camera-tolerances-revealed-is-your-cars-speedo-accurate

 

 

 

Firstly you should note that according to the FOI responses, 7 Police forces could well be prosecuting at 1mph over the posted limit!

 

Secondly there is no entry for Northamptonshire Police so we don't know what their policy was is - other than the fact Paul80 has apparently been caught out by a 'zero tolerance' policy

 

Thirdly that article was published in April - we are now 6 months on from that date and the Police forces quoted as using 10% +2/3mph could well have revised their policies - you would need to submit a fresh batch of FOI requests to find out.

[phil-b259]

55 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

 

 

And, most likely; why you have had no response to that request. 

 

Give Paul80 a chance!

 

Moreover given several police forces refuse to say whether they have a 10% tolerance or not - the chances are its perfectly legit and those driving on the M1 through Northamptonshire should be careful from now on!

[polybear]

6 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

If independent testing proves this to be so then (i) the motorist will have a claim against the organisation / person who sold them the vehicle, (ii) the crown would have a case against said person / organisation for selling an unroadworthy vehicle and (iii) the motorist would have a strong defence that they had been the victim of entrapment by others.

 

I suspect that you'd need to either:

1. Prove an inherent design fault, or

2. Prove that the fault existed at the time of sale.

And then win your case in court against perhaps a huge motor manufacturer with very clever Barristers.

For both scenarios I've a feeling that you'll need very deep pockets....

 

4 hours ago, Adam88 said:

It is not unusual for the police to set up mobile speed cameras and when this is the case drivers coming the opposite way sometimes flash their headlights - I don't personally and I believe it can lead to prosecution in its own right.

 

 

It can - I believe the charge would Perverting the Course  of Justice.  Beaks really, really don't like that one - it's akin to kicking then in the nuts and often leads to Prison Time.  A few MP's have learnt this to their cost, when they've tried to claim someone else was driving at the time....

[phil-b259]

Just now, polybear said:

It can - I believe the charge would Perverting the Course  of Justice.  Beaks really, really don't like that one - it's akin to kicking then in the nuts and often leads to Prison Time.  A few MP's have learnt this to their cost, when they've tried to claim someone else was driving at the time....

 

Most definitely correct!

 

In fact some forces have deliberately had offices watching vehicles driving away from a speed cameras and fined drivers for such behaviour.

 

The highway code is quite clear - headlights MUST NOT be used as any form of warning / invitation to perform a certain course of action, which is why its an immediate fail if a learner on their test shows any sign of responding to them.

[alastairq]

Flashing Of headlights always worries me.......it convinces me I'm truly losing the plot, as I cannot recall who they are, or how I knew them!!!

I really must get a satnag.....and key in one postcode only....my home.

 

I have a problem keeping within speed limits with my Dellow [avatar?]......not a 'fast' car, but a 'quick' car.....it will easily get to the speed limit ..and a bit beyond....but I have it on local police authority that their dan dare ray guns cannot identify 1950's black & white number plates.....and, usually, their ANPR tells them every car they see is uninsured, untaxed, etc....[ a fault if not correctly updated]

 

They've long since ceased to concern themselves with my seatbelts as well....

But, the lights always work correctly.....[if not exactly when I want them!].....can we still buy festoon bulbs?

[Reorte]

3 hours ago, alastairq said:

 Then they are not 'competent' drivers...

Incompotent drivers are a big issue. However there's a fine balance to be struck between all the various factors, such as some people being fine no matter what, some being incompetent no matter what, and some depending on the various factors at play.