William's Workbench - LBSCR, LC&DR & SER in 4mm, and Gauge 1

[hayfield]

19 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

And painted:

 

 

I'm very proud of this!

 

 

That's a super looking wagon

[Lacathedrale]

Transfers from Fox arrived very quickly. Turns out that using warm water really does make a difference, I had to chase these around the saucer like a lunatic!

 

 

I have since added some microsol over the decals, more gloss, and then some matt varnish - but it looks very much the same as here. I need to letter the brake side and add the three links, but I am getting started with painting up the SER wagon.

 

The detail is very soft, because I built it using butanone when I couldn't find my tamiya extra thin cement. These wagons were built over a long period with whatever technology for brakes, buffers and wheels were current. The don of SER modelling Dr. Garratt has a drawing with self-contained buffers and mansell wheels, and a single wooden brake block for a circa 1884 build, so that's what I've gone with for this example. I should have batch-built a few more with dumb buffers, open spoke wheels, etc. etc. !

 

 

[Lacathedrale]

And here it is, done:

 

 

 

 

 

Overall, I can definitely see areas I would do better next time with, but for a start I don't think this is all that bad at all..

[Lacathedrale]

Here's the SER Wagon:

 

 

 

 

The detail is much softer because I used butanone before I found my tamiya extra thin cement, but I think the colours work well.

 

Everything is Vallejo: I have used VGC Heavy Charcoal for all the black items. The grey for the LCDR wagon was a 50/50 mix of VMC neutral grey and VMA Grey-Brown, and the oxide for SER wagon was VMC Red Leather. I added a little VMC Pale Sand to most to decrease the saturation a little and lighten it.

 

The wash for the LCDR wagon was black weathering powder and brown ink, the wash for the SER wagon (which I think is much more effective) is Raw Umber, Black and White oil paints mixed up to a thin consistency (not a wash!) and daubed on, then wiped off when mostly dry.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Completely out of era, I bought a Class 37 for a pittance from Hattons because it was part detailed without glazing and already converted to P4. I didn't realise it was P4 at the time, but my experiments with track/etc. means this is actually quite useful. When recieved it had already had buffers and grab rails fitted, so I've put some etched window surrounds on it, and a new fan and grille.

 

I'm going to model it as EW&S 37057 of my past. 37057 was a split box loco and this is a centre headcode model, but I'm going to ignore that and soldier on, as all the other details are correct.

 

 

 

 

[Lacathedrale]

Here's the loco with horns, grab rails and P4 wheels fitted:

 

Here's the loco coated with Vallejo Surface Primer and the nose sprayed Railmatch Acrylic 84-03 Warning Yellow.

 

 

Some holes were drilled in the side for some reason (attaching nameplates?) so I'll have to wait until tomorrow for a delivery of putty to fill those. This'll be the second time I'm painting a loco; the first didn't go so well - here's hoping for something better!

 

 

The combination of centre headcode + no high intensity headlight + steam boiler in situ + EWS 37057 decals is going to make this a wholly freelance machine; but it's been sitting in a box for close on ten years at this point so assuming it runs (I haven't tested) --  it will at least be something nice to put on the shelf instead.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Got the gold sprayed and masked:

 

 

And then also the maroon:

 

 

 

I made a mistake with the kind of putty used to cover the pinholes over where the nameplates would have been, it was gummy rather than sandable - which caused a problem with sanding. TBH if it was a case of stripping the whole thing down and restarting it would have probably ended up in the bin!

[Lacathedrale]

It's turned out pretty well I think:

 

 

I have a whitemetal high intensity headlight that I forgot to fit which will go under the centre headcode, then a few coats of gloss before RailTec transfers and oil weathering are applied. I learned my lesson on the 33 - the windows are going in right at the very, very end!

 

[Lacathedrale]

Well, after that it all went to the dogs, so it went back into the cupboard. However, I have a new workbench:

 

 

On the workbench is a London Road (nee D&S) LNWR Horsebox. I'm using an Antex 25w blue-handled job - but I can't help but think that a temperature controlled iron might be a good shout. Any recommendations?

[Siberian Snooper]

I took delivery of this one on Sunday, and I have to say that it's the best iron I have used in a long time. I got it because the 60 Watt was cumbersome in some situations, it heats up pretty quick and the switch in the cable enables it to be switched off between joints, if fettling is required.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09PNBQTYY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I will probably use it more than my 40 watt soldering station.

 

 

[hayfield]

10 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

Well, after that it all went to the dogs, so it went back into the cupboard. However, I have a new workbench:

 

 

On the workbench is a London Road (nee D&S) LNWR Horsebox. I'm using an Antex 25w blue-handled job - but I can't help but think that a temperature controlled iron might be a good shout. Any recommendations?

 

I bought a digital solder station and never looked back when the hand held unit developed a fault I went back to my Antex and could not believe who long it took to warm up

 

This is the one I bought  https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/csi-premier75w-digital-temperature-controlled-solder-station-with-75w-soldering-iron  not too expensive but does everything I ask

I bought a set of 10 different tips, well wort it, I bought a spare handle, now one has a small tip the other a larger one

[Lacathedrale]

Bought! Thank you!

[Lacathedrale]

5/32" scale (aka "4mm") is STILL TECHNICALLY IMPERIAL!

 

A while back I bought an SER R-class 3D print, but baulked at the price of the chassis and wheels so instead I scratchbuilt some wagons out of styrene whicht was very enjoyable.

 

Looking back at my 5/32" options for a layout I decided it was about time I got a working kit built locomotive chassis - but it has been a long time since I made a brass kit. S to whet my appetite I have broken open a fairly simple LNWR horsebox kit  from London Road Models. LRM are well regarded, but I note this is branded as a D&S kit. I'm not sure if it makes much difference, it comes with LRM compensated W-irons, castings, etc.

 

I have struggled on a bit further with my 25w iron - it's generally fine on smaller pieces or where there's a good amount of solder to aid heat transfer, but not at all useful in other places such as the laminations of the window frame and droplight into the side aperatures. Other than that has gone together fairly easily so far and has been quite enjoyable - I hope I can finish it tonight.

 

 

Obligatory: It doesn't look that bad in real life, honest guv'nor!

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Craigw]

5 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

5/32" scale (aka "4mm") is STILL TECHNICALLY IMPERIAL!

 

A while back I bought an SER R-class 3D print, but baulked at the price of the chassis and wheels so instead I scratchbuilt some wagons out of styrene whicht was very enjoyable.

 

Looking back at my 5/32" options for a layout I decided it was about time I got a working kit built locomotive chassis - but it has been a long time since I made a brass kit. S to whet my appetite I have broken open a fairly simple LNWR horsebox kit  from London Road Models. LRM are well regarded, but I note this is branded as a D&S kit. I'm not sure if it makes much difference, it comes with LRM compensated W-irons, castings, etc.

 

I have struggled on a bit further with my 25w iron - it's generally fine on smaller pieces or where there's a good amount of solder to aid heat transfer, but not at all useful in other places such as the laminations of the window frame and droplight into the side aperatures. Other than that has gone together fairly easily so far and has been quite enjoyable - I hope I can finish it tonight.

 

 

Obligatory: It doesn't look that bad in real life, honest guv'nor!

 

 

One of the failings of etched brass kits is the hinge bar for the doors - it is flat!

 

I would suggest getting some 1/2 round brass from Eileens and overlay that It gives the side more depth and looks, well, half round.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Lacathedrale]

Not a bad shout at all!

 

I've got the body done now, sans handles which are recommended to be done at a later stage:

 

 

Unfortunately it seems someone in my house has been using the Cif cleaner I use specifically for neutralising flux and cleaning parts for ... cleaning the hob? Either way, I'm out of luck there and a dusting of primer will have to wait until tomorrow.

 

Cheers!

[Lacathedrale]

I think i have hit a snag - the chassis etch is designed for inside bearings and I have never done these before in my life.

 

The instructions are vague to the extreme, but it looks like this is how it's meant to look on the rigid end of the chassis?

 

It is not clear to me at all what the purpose of the additional etched line is, and there is so much slop in the slots there is basically zero positive registration.

 

On the bright side my new soldering station appears to be working well - I'm still getting used to it of course.

[Citadel]

Have built a couple of these under frames recently (including the horse box).  Firstly I always open up the slots to take Gibson 2mm top hat bearings, find this gives better running and tighter tolerances - see photo below.
 

 

I also tend to solder in fillets at the base of the axle supports and run extra solder along the etch line you mention to stiffen it up,

 

Think the groove must be about adjusting the arms a little to adjust sideplay on the wheels and avoid them catching.  With the bearings you have 1 to 2 mm to play with here anyway as the outside face can protrude slightly from the arm.

 

Here’s my effort at the kit.  From my recollection the most difficult bit was the footsteps as a bit fiddly and fragile (my general hamfistedness didn’t help)

 

Look forward to seeing the finished result 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Citadel

[Lacathedrale]

Very interesting! These bearings? https://cm3models.co.uk/alan-gibson-4mm-scale-main-frame-bearings-2mm-bore-part-no-4m65-3275-p.asp

 

Opened out presumably using a tapered reamer of some sort, I guess? Is it retained somehow or just a tight fit?

Does the bore of the bearing need any modification or is it simply a case of opening the hole out enough for an interference fit on the bearing, placing the bearings on the axle and pushing the assembly in?

 

I'm back from a weekend camping so was just about to get started again!

[t-b-g]

11 hours ago, Citadel said:

Have built a couple of these under frames recently (including the horse box).  Firstly I always open up the slots to take Gibson 2mm top hat bearings, find this gives better running and tighter tolerances - see photo below.
 

 

I also tend to solder in fillets at the base of the axle supports and run extra solder along the etch line you mention to stiffen it up,

 

Think the groove must be about adjusting the arms a little to adjust sideplay on the wheels and avoid them catching.  With the bearings you have 1 to 2 mm to play with here anyway as the outside face can protrude slightly from the arm.

 

Here’s my effort at the kit.  From my recollection the most difficult bit was the footsteps as a bit fiddly and fragile (my general hamfistedness didn’t help)

 

Look forward to seeing the finished result 

 

Very good advice and a very nice looking horsebox! We have a few of these built up on Narrow Road and the earliest were done just running the axle in the etch provided. They are very stiff runners and without regular lubrication they screech their way along and act like the handbrake has been left on. Later we fitted bearings. We soldered the flat top of the bearings to the etch on the inside, rather than try to open the holes out, then put a 2mm brass washer on the outside, between the etch and the wheel.

 

We didn't fancy opening out a U shaped slot correctly on its centre.

 

We will go back and alter the early ones sometime, maybe.

[Lacathedrale]

I turned up a couple of bearings from a handy bit of 5mm brass rod in my lathe - I didn't think there was much crossover between modelling and model engineering but I guess bearings (and chassis blocks?) are probably the exception. I have spent the morning hanging pictures and the farce has culminated in managing to drill straight into one of the radials which powers my fridge and freezer, so I'm in no headspace for modelling at the moment!

[Lacathedrale]

SER R-class tank

One of my bearings had an oversized bore since I used a centre drill to start off the hole and the dia was about 2.5mm, so no progress last night (I was too grumpy to head out into the workshop again!)

 

SER Coaches & Livery

The SER switched from a somewhat nauseous flesh-and-dried-blood around the mid 1880's to an all-over carmine lake (coincidentally same colour that will be required for the LNWR horsebox).  This broadly coincides with the switch from carriages which are directly influenced by horse carriage design:

 

SER Kits 4w Coupe of 1859 in Flesh/Blood Livery

 

To those which are much more like railway carriage we are familiar with:

 

Roxey Mouldings 4w SER Grande Vitesse van of 1888 in (too red) Carmine Livery

 

A boat train of my era is shown below, and looks to consist of new stock - which being the premier service makes sense!

 

 

The earlier carriages (not specifically the Coupe, but that style of design) were in use on branch line service shorn of their luggage racks as late as 1910, so if I can make it work they would be a characterful addition.

 

Anyway, the relevance for this discussion is that while I was camping over the weekend I managed to snag from eBay, six ratio 4w coaches and one bogie coach kit already equipped with P4 wheels for £50. They are based on GWR coaches and so broadly corespond to later-type SER coaches, so they should sub in well. I will almost certainly need to bodge some duckets or birdcages! More info as it develops...

[Citadel]

Whoah, those carriages are absolutely gorgeous - might be a little bit out of my depth giving advice to someone so accomplished(!)

 

Anyway, just for the sake of completeness re: the post above yes, exactly those bearings.  When I open up the retaining slot it's not a precise science.  Now I've realised the existing arrangement isn't great I do the mods whilst still on the etch (or at least flat), then scribe lines showing depth/width I need to open it up to.  Finally attack with selection of needle files - ultimately looking to create a slot I can drop the bearing into rather than something that fixes it in place.  Doing it after you've soldered the supports to the chassis is a slightly different proposition.

 

 

Twist the wheels off the axle and cut the pinpoints off with a dremel and a cutting disc, remove any burs then slip the bearings on and replace the wheels adjusting with back to back gauge.

 

Actually prefer the slot slightly too big/deep than too small shallow as unashamedly bodge things when fitting the wheels to the finished carriage.  Basically I shim out the rocking piece with plasticard to lock it in the central position and use blobs of blu-tac either between the tyres and the chassis floor or beneath the axles to hold things in place whilst I plump or squish to get everything square and ride height correct.  Obviously do this on a piece of plate glass and make sure all four wheels are touching the ground at the end of this process....  

 

Also pay attention to the lateral position of the axle, want the bearings to be relatively close to the wheels to prevent too much side play (but not so tight that they aren't free running).   Actually I generally target the rim of the tophat bearing to be slightly proud of the supports (as long as things look square and symmetrical).  I work in EM, indeed have actually started using the OO locating tabs to give more clearance between the tyre and the brass etch which guess could cause issues with shorts etc.

 

 

Once everything square carefully 'tack weld' the bearing into the support with with a relatively viscous superglue, remove blu tac once hardened then add more superglue to remove any potential for play between the bearing and the support.  Finally remove the plasticard shims to allow one axle to rock. 

 

The superglue bit is a little stressful as the consequences of getting it wrong pretty obvious.  Haven't had an issue yet but wonder if I put a tiny smidge of penetrating oil on the axle might be a worthwhile exercise.

 

Obviously do this after painting the chassis, no blu tac or superglue was harmed in the photos above.  

 

Anyway, good luck, interested to hear how you get on 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Citadel

[Lacathedrale]

Citadel, thank yu for the wonderful instructions. I should clarify those are manufacturer photos, not my own coaches!

[Citadel]

Aha, oops….  Judging by some of your earlier posts though your builds will be just as good 🙂

 

That coupe is lovely, suffering from a severe case of SER envy!

[Lacathedrale]

I've got a little further and fairly happy (needs a fair amount of clean-up still, so please don't judge me too harshly):

 

 

It needs a good scouring with a fibreglass brush and dousing in cream cleaner - but it's looking positive so far - just the brake hoses, coupling hooks, and roof to finish off.