loco Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 I have a Hornby class 60 R3605TTS. It came factory fitted with a insulated sleeve over the decoder. All I have done is upgrade the speaker to. Rail Exclusive Baby Boomer. I’ve had it 4 months and it runs and sounds Great. My Question should I remove the sleeve or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mancunian Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 If you remove any sleeve from a decoder then you're asking for trouble! The electronics need protection! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 26, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 26, 2019 33 minutes ago, Mancunian said: If you remove any sleeve from a decoder then you're asking for trouble! The electronics need protection! Indeed - this is a form of heatsink in many designs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loco Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 Thanks for advice. Which is why I’ve not removed it. Only doubt came about by reading articles on TTS decoders and overheating, and not to insulate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted October 26, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) If the decoder comes with a protective covering I leave as as is, if it doesn't then I tend not to cover it but just insulate the loco / chassis where the decoder sits Edited October 26, 2019 by roundhouse 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul80 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 The secret with TTS decoders is to NOT use heat shrink, not even loose fitting un-shrunk heat shrink as they do get hot and do need cooling air and get hot enough to shrink un-shrunk heat shrink. Hornby used to just recommend a strap of thin tape over the decoder to hold it in place and some thin tape under the decoder for insulation, I use Kapon tape and have never had an issue, actually the only time I had an issue was with the first one I tried were I used un-shrunk heat shrink, which shrunk with the heat and resulted in a blown decoder due to no ventilation. Obviously others will do different but that's what Hornby used to recommend and may still do Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loco Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 1 hour ago, roundhouse said: If the decoder comes with a protective covering I leave as as is, if it doesn't then I tend not to cover it but just insulate the loco / chassis where the decoder sits Thank you. .Exactly what I've been doing for 15 years. Good old Kapton Tape. Bought a pack of 3 from the States , [doing DCC in N kato N gauge] This is my first TTS , and factory fitted sound. A current model. Up to now all ESU/ZIMMO Sound. Assuming Hornby know what there doing, I'm leaving well alone. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loco Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 Thanks all for letting me know your thoughts, appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Most heat shrink materials used for model railway use have poor thermal conductivity so keep the heat in. Same with Kapton tape. That why it's used around space vehicles. If you want something to let the heat out you'll be needing the grey expensive stuff. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul80 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 I have fitted a few TTS decoders including one delivered last week and none of them had any insulation out of the box, must be something very new they are doing now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisr40 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Do people mean the silver static preventative bag that each decoder comes in as opposed to insulation ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul80 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 I hope not Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil S Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 At a talk given to MERG by Bernd Lenz many years ago, he advised that insulation should be applied to the (metalwork) of the loco chassis / body so as to stop any part of it shorting to the decoder. However, the decoder should be provided with as much ventilation as possible ... By NOT covering it in tape or heat shrink or other sleeving. ( it also used to be advised to fit them away from the motor since that will get warm in use) Therefore I would suggest a piece of thin electrical insulating tape over adjacent chassis. And a piece on the inside of the bodyshell above the decoder. Hopefully an air gap remains! The sticky pad (supplied with Lenz decoders) usually serves well as the insulation from the chassis. ... Sometimes I use half the pad, AND the insulating tape to give some, safe, airspace below. ( most of the (lenz) decoders I use are 'single sided' with components only on top. ) TTS decoders have a piggybacked board and components both sides. ... So any method of supporting them in 'free space' or on an insulated heat conductor - such as a metal chassis block Would seem to be a good idea : prevention is better than cure. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Coincidentally, I have just a few minutes ago finished installing TTS sound in two Hornby HST power cars. These did not have any heat-shrink around them. I did apply some thick, double-sided tape to the metal weight in the unpowered car before sticking the decoder to it. There was no such problem in the motorised car as I used the plastic 'platform' Hornby provided already, minus its 'hood' as the decoder couldn't quite squeeze into the gap. I cannot recall what the previous TTS decoders I have had: whether they did or did not have shrink-wrap over them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loco Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 Seeing Hornby fitted the sleeve I have been in touch with them. They advice removing the sleeve. Sorted. Plus my Warranty will not be affected. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 The important thing (any decoder) is to insulate it from touching any metal on the loco. Ideally by insulating these metal parts, then the decoder can breath, although if it gets so hot it is shrinking a heat shrink sleeve then there is likely some other problem, such as overdriving the sound amp, or overloading the function or motor circuits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mancunian Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 21 hours ago, loco said: Seeing Hornby fitted the sleeve I have been in touch with them. They advice removing the sleeve. Sorted. Plus my Warranty will not be affected. Suicidal for the chip!!!! Who at Hornby advised you to do THAT..??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loco Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 29 minutes ago, Richard Croft said: That’s a bit dramatic, if he insulates the area where the decoder is going as other people have suggested then he’s not gonna have any problems, the decoder should last longer if it doesn’t over heat by being tightly wrapped in heat shrink. Richard Done exactly that. The right thing to do. All running and sounding good.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mancunian Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Richard Croft said: That’s a bit dramatic, if he insulates the area where the decoder is going as other people have suggested then he’s not gonna have any problems, the decoder should last longer if it doesn’t over heat by being tightly wrapped in heat shrink. Richard Eh! WT...I'm surprised at you! So, the manufacturers fit the heat-shrink protection to waste money, or just for the sake of it..?? What is the *point* of removing the manufacturers heatshrink just to insulate the surrounding area.?? Also consider that the manufacturers covering could be a heatsink..?? Why do top manufacturers fit proper covers to their decoders... Blow what the manufactures say and their warranty too!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amand Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Some manufacturers fit a heat shrink type cover to their decoders - DCC Concepts, Gaugemster (though not the tiny 6 pin ones which I think are re-packaged Digitrax?) Bachmann decoders with wire leads have heat shrink. The 21 pin equivalents don't. Newer decoders sourced via Zimo (6 pin, Next 18) don't have heat shrink. Zimo have heat shrink, though the 6 pin and next 18 ones don't - as above. I've seen a few Hornby TTS decoders, including 08 shunters, and none have had any heat shrink applied, or included in the packaging. Same goes for the r8249 non sound decoder. I've never had a Hornby Sapphire decoder, or if I have I wasn't paying attention. So if there's heat shrink applied by the manufacturer then leave it be. If Its been retro fitted then carefully remove it. The only good thing about heat shrink it its very easy to determine if a component has failed and overheated - a nice hole will have burnt through! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I wonder if there may be some confusion. As supplied, the chips come in their own clear plastic small bag. I wonder if it's this that Hornby are saying to remove Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 They were much better when they came in an old newspaper 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mancunian Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 On 30/10/2019 at 23:46, Richard Croft said: It's already being covered if you read the full conversation. Laying a decoder on a piece of insulating tape isn't going to keep the heat in as much as a thick layer of heat shrink will. There's not really any need to insulate the top of the decoder thats going to be close to a plastic body either unless there are metal components on the inside of the body which could touch the decoder. I can understand the logic behind taking the heat shrink off a decoder to protect it from over heating. Richard Hi Richard.... How many people, I wonder, either don't or haven't realised too that a decoder can burst into flames... For those who think that sounds drastic then I can assure them 100% that I speak from experience. It was a plastic-covered direct-fit decoder from a well-known retailer and all such chips have been replaced and all, slightly more expensive decoders, are fitted with a superior type heatshrink-sink. I would never advocate wrapping a decoder in pvc tape as that is greatly affected by heat. Regards... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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