RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted October 13, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2019 Good Morning, I'm hoping to get some help identifying a loco and a couple of (very clean!) GW wagons from a photo of Shenfield station shortly after rebuilding in the 1930s. A bonus question is for the water crane - is it a standard LNER design or is it a GER one? I *think* the loco may be a J39? But I have no idea about the wagons as GWR is a little alien to me Thank you for any assistance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted October 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2019 Wow! A tricky picture to interpret! I can't help with GW stuff I'm afraid. I agree the loco could be a J39 but it looks like its attached to a GE tender? Its not a J19/20 since they did not have a vacuum(?) pipe running under the boiler handrail as this loco seems to have. I would go for a B17 but stand to be corrected! Kind regards, Richard B 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Tooley Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) Difficult to tell, but the tender looks to have a coping plate that's a bit too tall to be GE. I think it might be one of the early LNER group standard tenders with the stepped out coping plates. A handful of the J39s on GE metals in the 30s had these. D Edited October 13, 2019 by Darryl Tooley typo 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted October 13, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2019 Sorry for the quality - it's the best of a bad bunch of the same picture I think it's too short to be a B17 but not 100%? I'm guessing it's a Group Standard 3500gal rather than a 4200gal if it's an LNER one. Thanks for the input so far Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aire Head Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 While I can provide a Diag from the Vans they rather simply appear to be the standard GWR style vans which are largely available in both Kit and RTR form (at least in 4mm). These would travel quite widely under the common user agreement. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 13, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2019 They also appear to be quite clean, which suggests they were still new at the time of the photo, which may help. I agree they are probably the standard 'Parto' type van, but might be Fruit. There is a ventilator visible on the end of the leading one which rules out Mogo or Banana. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aire Head Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Looking at the image more it also appears that the first 3 vans are GWR due to the roof profile and roof colour. Possibly part of a wagon load consignment to the same destination. Possibly from somewhere on GWR metals to somewhere on LNER metals. (Hope that makes sense) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillCav Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 They look like 17'6" Minks (1000s built under many diagrams) or Partos (100s built and some used for specific destinations) so I would go for Minks. Loads of variety vac/non vac but likely to be 10' wheelbase on that date clean. Will 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted October 14, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) Thanks all - so a Ratio 565 might do? Are brass or whitemetal kits available perhaps? 4mm Edited October 14, 2019 by Bucoops Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 15, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2019 Yes, or Bachmann RTR. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aire Head Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Probably worthwhile checking Parkside kits aswell 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 ABS did variants in white metal ......... occasionally available on second hand stalls at shows or a well known interweb site, no doubt ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted October 15, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2019 Thanks - as it will be at the front of a representative train I'd prefer them to have a bit of weight to them. I don't mind plastic kits but would prefer to at least change the chassis to metal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aire Head Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Bucoops said: Thanks - as it will be at the front of a representative train I'd prefer them to have a bit of weight to them. I don't mind plastic kits but would prefer to at least change the chassis to metal. I found with kit built vans it's pretty easy to add weight using either plasticine or fishing lead Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 15, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2019 These and all sorts of old bits of whitemetal and mazak, even old nails, nuts and bolts, have been given the opportunity of exciting new careers in the Kitmaster/Parkside/Ratio ballasting industry on my layout, with the aid of a bit of epoxy... Keep the centre of balance low by gluing it to the wagon floor. Opens and flats are more of a problem, as you have to hide the ballast beneath the floor unless the wagon is permanently loaded or sheeted and nails embedded in plasticene or Milliput is my go to; I also hang on to any RTR wagon ballast strips from scrapped wagons and it might even be worth picking up a few cheap Triangs or Limas at a show or swapmeet just for these. Lowmacs and Weltrols are a nightmare without loads; with Weltrols the best you can probably do is replace the bogies with whitemetal ones, and use metal wheels on Lowmacs. Replacing entire kit chassis with RTR sounds like a simple solution, but it isn't, because the RTR chassis have integral floors, so the kit bodies sit too high on them. Plastic kits can be made to run well with a bit of ballasting, and metal wheels and brass cup bearings which many of them are supplied with deze daze. Parksides come with NEM coupling mounts but Kitmaster (previously Dapol previously Airfix previously Rosebud Kitmaster) and Ratio come with their own type of rigid plastic tension lock couplings. These are unmitigated sh*t, will pollute your life if you use them, and are best replaced with NEMs; you can buy the dovetail mounts from Parkside. You have to carve the kit's coupling mounting off and may have to trim the Parkside dovetail to get the correct coupling bar height before gluing them direct to the kit floor; take care to mount them square to the buffer beam and the correct distance in from it by comparing to an RTR wagon. Bogies are harder to retrofit NEM dovetails to, and I'd recommend using Bachmann bogies, which they sell as spares, if suitable, but you are of course restricted to GW plate or LMS diamond frame types. At least these are suitable for the Ratio bogie bolster wagons. I've had some success mounting bogies using press studs as available in haberdashers' or craft shops for clothes, and from your local anything shop probably as well, cheap as chips so buy a few different sizes to get the correct ride height for your vehicles, which you can check by trial and error against an RTR vehicle for buffer height. The bogies are easily removed if needed, and care needs to be taken in gluing them dead centre to the vehicle floor so that the body is correctly balanced, but a previous hole for a bogie pivot will automatically 'centre' them for you. It's also worth replacing buffers with cast or turned metal ones which look much better and give extra ballast weight. Cast whitemetal vacuum cylinders will help as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted October 16, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2019 Somewhere I have a few Parkside wagons with 1p pieces glued in. Seemed like a good idea at the time, and their relative value has dropped even more so even more worth it now! I don't plan to use RTR, but if I can't find any of the ABS kits I'll look at the options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2019 If they’re good enough for Big Ben’s clock mech... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 The most curious ballast I've seen on a model wagon was on a Lowmac someone gave me at an exhibition in France. It took me a while to realise that what I was looking at was, in fact, slices of bullet. .303", I believe. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2019 On 15/10/2019 at 17:13, The Johnster said: Opens and flats are more of a problem, as you have to hide the ballast beneath the floor unless the wagon is permanently loaded or My 16T Minerals built from kits have a thin bit of steel sheet on top of the plastic floor. The steel came from shortening a cooker hood chimney. It's sprayed with primer then rust colour before powder weathering and matt varnish. Adds about 25 grams to the weight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted October 16, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, The Johnster said: If they’re good enough for Big Ben’s clock mech... True! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, TheSignalEngineer said: My 16T Minerals built from kits have a thin bit of steel sheet on top of the plastic floor. The steel came from shortening a cooker hood chimney. It's sprayed with primer then rust colour before powder weathering and matt varnish. Adds about 25 grams to the weight. Good idea! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 15 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said: My 16T Minerals built from kits have a thin bit of steel sheet on top of the plastic floor. The steel came from shortening a cooker hood chimney. It's sprayed with primer then rust colour before powder weathering and matt varnish. Adds about 25 grams to the weight. Sounds a very elaborate way to make steel go rusty ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Wickham Green said: Sounds a very elaborate way to make steel go rusty ! Cooker hoods are made not to go rusty. If it had been any old steel sheet it would have been outside on the wet for a few days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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