RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, PhilJ W said: I want a GER brake third. The end windows on the Hattons coach are more or less the right size and shape but the duckets are wrong. The Hornby offering has duckets that are right for the GER but the end windows are completely wrong. The GER livery is in batch 3, along with NER, Caledonian, and S&DJR. The ducket is a separate piece in the assembly. Perhaps if you speak nicely to them they might be persuaded to tool up for a round-topped ducket, which I think would be right for all those except the North Eastern. Alternatively, Evergreen do a range of quarter-round styrene section... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted March 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Compound2632 said: The GER livery is in batch 3, along with NER, Caledonian, and S&DJR. The ducket is a separate piece in the assembly. Perhaps if you speak nicely to them they might be persuaded to tool up for a round-topped ducket, which I think would be right for all those except the North Eastern. Alternatively, Evergreen do a range of quarter-round styrene section... The alternative is to replace the end of the Hornby one. This is a one piece clear plastic moulding so it shouldn't be difficult. I am looking into replacing it with clear plasticard or acrylic with an overlay either etched or laser cut. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, PhilJ W said: The alternative is to replace the end of the Hornby one. That sounds to me like a more difficult modification to an inferior approximation to a GER carriage. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted March 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: That sounds to me like a more difficult modification to an inferior approximation to a GER carriage. Not difficult at all, as I said the end is a separate piece in clear plastic so should be readily removable. I won't know for certain though until I get one to check it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nick C Posted March 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) On 05/03/2021 at 09:30, rprodgers said: Apologises if this has been mentioned before re the 4 wheel brake is the arrangement of the guards duckets at the very rear windows at the very rear of the coach unique just to the LBSC railway or did any other companies have this arrangement? I have ordered a number of sets (different companies) and am wondering if I should re-order some coaches singularly A quick image search on the internet when this came up on the Hornby thread a few weeks ago showed at least the following with that arrangement: LBSCR, LSWR, LCDR, SECR, GNR, GWR, LYR, Caledonian, GER, LNWR, M&GN - not all the coaches from those companies, and there's almost certainly others, but it was definitely a common feature - especially for those companies that ran fixed/'block' sets and suburban services, which would generally be marshalled with a brake at either end of each set. Edited March 6, 2021 by Nick C 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Nick C said: A quick image search [...] LYR, I wouldn't claim to have done a comprehensive search but the L&Y examples I found had the ducket near but not at the end - a short blank panel intervened. But since the L&Y's style of panelling was so radically different from that of the Hattons and Hornby carriages, it's really a minor quibble! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rprodgers Posted March 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Compound2632 said: Whilst characteristic of the LB&SCR, it's by no means unusual; LNWR 4-wheel brake thirds spring to mind. Of the liveries offered in batches 1 and 2, the only one I'd say categorically not is the Midland livery, since Midland arc-roof carriages of the 1880s-90s didn't have duckets at all, except for the 4-wheel passenger brake vans (i.e. without passenger accommodation). The Great Western had some 4-wheelers with the duckets at the very end but these didn't have the large windows in the end. Thanks Stephen your reply is much appreciated 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 On 05/03/2021 at 10:55, Nick C said: A quick image search on the internet when this came up on the Horny thread a few weeks ago Careful now! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nick C Posted March 6, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2021 35 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: Careful now! Pesky autocorrect... 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 That's intelligent autocorrect, based on the type of sites you usually visit 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR-fan Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) I was looking at the expected arrival date of the GWR Hattons Genesis coaches and noticed in the search return the absence of the full brake coach. Perhaps an omission in the search return or has it been dropped from the line up please? Edit: I could only find the coach by searching "6 wheel full brake" rather than a specific search for a GWR variant. https://www.hattons.co.uk/498081/hattons_originals_h4_6fb_101_6_wheel_full_brake_99_in_gwr_chocolate_and_cream/stockdetail.aspx Edit: a subsequent search specifically for a "GWR 6 wheel full brake coach" actually found the coach. Odd that it did not work previously. Edited March 14, 2021 by GWR-fan Additional comment 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Yes, I had some oddities with the search when I pre-ordered mine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted March 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2021 On 14/03/2021 at 00:04, GWR-fan said: I was looking at the expected arrival date of the GWR Hattons Genesis coaches and noticed in the search return the absence of the full brake coach. Perhaps an omission in the search return or has it been dropped from the line up please? Edit: I could only find the coach by searching "6 wheel full brake" rather than a specific search for a GWR variant. https://www.hattons.co.uk/498081/hattons_originals_h4_6fb_101_6_wheel_full_brake_99_in_gwr_chocolate_and_cream/stockdetail.aspx Edit: a subsequent search specifically for a "GWR 6 wheel full brake coach" actually found the coach. Odd that it did not work previously. Exactly the same happened to me. When I first looked, none of the 6-W full brakes would display. I found if I navigated via this page however. I could see and order everything. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR-fan Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Edwardian, many thanks. Link is very handy. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post Hattons Dave Posted April 7, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted April 7, 2021 Hi all, We're pleased to show our next lot of painted samples - covering LBSCR mahogany, SECR red and SR olive green liveries. We're very pleased with how these samples are looking and we should have even more to share with you soon. All Batch 1 models are expected by Q3 2021. Find out more HERE 26 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted April 7, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2021 Oooh, if only I could afford 12, I could make a Billinton block set! 4 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 7, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 7, 2021 That's the thing about short coaches - you need more of them. No flies on these Liverpudlians, you know! 4 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamingWales Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 These look great. Can't wait to see the departmental versions 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamespetts Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 On 07/04/2021 at 15:08, Hattons Dave said: Hi all, We're pleased to show our next lot of painted samples - covering LBSCR mahogany, SECR red and SR olive green liveries. We're very pleased with how these samples are looking and we should have even more to share with you soon. All Batch 1 models are expected by Q3 2021. Find out more HERE A joy! I shall look forward to the SR 6 wheel full brake carriage. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted April 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2021 I'm thinking of some conversions, such as this:- http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=832 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 9, 2021 On 07/04/2021 at 15:08, Hattons Dave said: We're pleased to show our next lot of painted samples - covering LBSCR mahogany, SECR red and SR olive green liveries. I've only just had a close look at these. All three liveries have the bolection mouldings in the body colour and lining round the outside of the bolection mouldings. I claim no expertise on liveries south of the river but this seems unlikely to me on general principles; I hope to be come better informed quite rapidly! I'm expecting the bolection mouldings to be varnished wood as for this ex-LBSCR carriage in Southern livery. It may be that the Southern was following LSWR carriage painting conventions; I can't find good photos of restored LBSCR or SECR carriages in this style but just to get discussion going, here's a Stroudley LBSCR carriage with internal bolections and hence lining around the window reveal; how were Billington carriages with external bolections treated? SECR carriages are a special case, having LNWR-style panelling at least in the period relevant to the 4 and 6-wheelers, many of which were of SER build. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted April 9, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Compound2632 said: I've only just had a close look at these. All three liveries have the bolection mouldings in the body colour and lining round the outside of the bolection mouldings. I claim no expertise on liveries south of the river but this seems unlikely to me on general principles; I hope to be come better informed quite rapidly! I'm expecting the bolection mouldings to be varnished wood as for this ex-LBSCR carriage in Southern livery. It may be that the Southern was following LSWR carriage painting conventions; I can't find good photos of restored LBSCR or SECR carriages in this style but just to get discussion going, here's a Stroudley LBSCR carriage with internal bolections and hence lining around the window reveal; how were Billington carriages with external bolections treated? SECR carriages are a special case, having LNWR-style panelling at least in the period relevant to the 4 and 6-wheelers, many of which were of SER build. The Brighton Liveried Coaches These are finished in mahogany livery, applied under Stroudley and subsequently up to 1903, when umber and white was introduced. Stroudley vastly preferred varnished mahogany. Some Brighton built coaches, and those built by outside contractors, were of cheaper wood. These, like earlier Craven coaches, seem to have bee finished in a painted mahogany. For example, Stroudley 6-wheel First 661 of 1880 (the picture you linked to) was built with softwood panels. It is restored in a painted mahogany livery. The Hattons models are probably best understood as painted mahogany. The bolections (fitted to late-build Stroudley and Billinton coaches) seem to have been made of actual mahogany. Assuming they were varnished not painted over (I think it most unlikely they would have been painted over), there might be a slight contrast in finish. Ultimately, however, we have mahogany bolections and mahogany coloured bodies, so probably best left alone. As to whether there should be lining around the fixed lights, I would say 'no'. As you note, there is lining around the quarter lights of Stroudleys (seen both in contemporary pictures of varnished coaches and on preserved 661), where there are no bolections. Where there are bolections - as on Billinton coaches and as on the Hattons models - my judgment is that there should not be lining round the fixed lights. The clearest picture I can find is of a bogie coach of 1900 (in painted mahogany) where there is a good view of a lavatory window. What we are seeing above is the light reflected on the rim of the bolection around the fixed lavatory light; there is no additional lining line around it. However, despite the fact that the Hattons coaches are closer to Billinton coaches than they are to Stroudleys (eerily close in some cases, given that the resemblance is coincidental), it is notable that Hattons have chosen running numbers from Stroudley coaches. Given that, Hattons' application of lining around the fixed lights is consistent with the running numbers chosen. What Hattons might usefully do, therefore, is: (a) Change the running numbers to those for Billinton coaches. Nick Holliday of this parish has proposed 'best match' Billinton numbers for the models. (b) Delete the lining around the fixed lights. Southern livery Not my period of main interest by any means, but I agree, as with the SR coach you linked to (a Billinton bogie first), I would expect the bolections to be varnished and have no lining around them: They are, for instance, even on a flush-sided Maunsell coach: Hattons treatment, below, I suspect is wrong in three respects: (i) Painting the bolections green. They should be varnished mahogany (the droplight colour is off in this respect). (ii) Lining is applied around the bolections. This should be deleted. (iii) There is no gap between the lining around the vertical blind panels and the lining around the horizontal eaves panels and waist panels. There should be a gap. however thin. The lining around the panels is slightly distanced from the edge of the beading (in reality it would be on the curve), and this might have been positioned in order that it lines up on the horizontal with the lining around the bolections, which should not be there! Also, there is a serious issue regarding the lining of the eaves panels either side of the left hand door. As these are samples, it might not be too late to correct these issues. Are you going to get in touch with Dave about this? Edited April 9, 2021 by Edwardian spelling! 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 9, 2021 20 minutes ago, Edwardian said: The Brighton Liveried Coaches What Hattons might usefully do, therefore, is: (a) Change the running numbers to those for Billinton coaches. Nick Holliday of this parish has proposed 'best match' Billinton numbers for the models. As far as I can work out all the running numbers were chosen very early on and are what people have pre-ordered against, so I imagine this may be tricky to change. Given that they're not models of actual carriages, I'd settle for correct lining-out but wrong numbers for Billinton carriages, if I was buying them. (Which I'm not intending to.) 20 minutes ago, Edwardian said: Southern livery Hattons treatment, below, I suspect is wrong in three respects: (i) painting the bolections green. They should be varnished mahogany (the droplight colour is off in this respect). (ii) Lining is applied around the bolections. This should be deleted. (iii) There is no gap between the lining around the vertical blind panels and the lining around the horizontal eaves panels and waist panels. There should be a gap. however thin. The lining around the panels is slightly distance from the edge of the beading (in reality it would be on the curve), and this might have been positioned in order that it lines up on the horizontal with the lining around the bolections, which should not be there! Also, there is a serious issue regarding the lining of the eaves panels either side of the left hand door. Thank you for confirming my suspicions here. The lining should be on the edge of the beading, which would give the requisite gap. There has apparently been no problem printing up to the edge of the beading for the GWR and LMS/MR liveries, so should be technically possible. Really the Southern livery is just like the LMS/MR livery only in place of black beading edged yellow / gold it's green beading edged yellow. Plus of course the body is green not red! 20 minutes ago, Edwardian said: As these are samples, it mat not be too late to correct these issues. Are you going to get in touch with Dave about this? He reads this thread, so I am hoping these posts will be sufficient. If he doesn't post a response, I'll give him a nudge. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted April 11, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 11, 2021 Question for Hattons: I have pre-ordered a fair number of the SECR coaches, but I would like a reasonable rake of six-wheel thirds in addition, which at the moment with everything else that is being released by all and sundry, and me being a humble pensioner, I can't afford. So, after the first release of these SECR coaches is all sold out, will you be re-issuing them? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Grouping fan Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, Budgie said: Question for Hattons: I have pre-ordered a fair number of the SECR coaches, but I would like a reasonable rake of six-wheel thirds in addition, which at the moment with everything else that is being released by all and sundry, and me being a humble pensioner, I can't afford. So, after the first release of these SECR coaches is all sold out, will you be re-issuing them? You would have to wait until after the 3rd batch of liveries at the very least. I can't see them repeating the liveries beforehand I'm rather hoping they do the darker purple lake livery next rather than doing the lighter livery being produced on the first batch. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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