A quick poll - offensive or not?

[wombatofludham]

I think a lot of the "it was better in the past" belief must come from the way the human brain is built.  It can't possibly remember everything, so the majority of summer days when it is persisting down and you were stuck inside playing board (bored?) games don't register, but you will remember the day the sun shone and you went off exploring with your mates.  For that reason, I recall in vivid detail as a 6 year old sitting cross legged at our still new primary school outside in the sun whilst Mrs Niblett tried bravely to make herself heard reading a story over the sound of the then relatively new Class 86's hurtling past the school fields on long piebald trains of blue/grey and maroon coaches, far more interesting to me and quite possibly when the rot set in which led to me failing my English Literature O level ten years later.  I have virtually no memories of secondary school as I hated it.  However, the old Birmingham Polytechnic will forever live in my mind as the memories are uniformly positive.

 

Strange to relate, however, I do have some memories of dreary days and rain-stopped-play days, which is possibly more to do with my brain having been shaped by years of clinical depression.  Which is why I never subscribe to the "the sun always shone, life was better in the xx's" school of thought.  Life changes, some things for the worse, some things for the better, but living a life of comparison with the past is a sure fire way to depression as you can never go back.  There again, if time travel does ever get cracked and time tourism takes off, count me in for a trip back to the 60s and 70s just so I can do some serious train gricing, bus travel and get to sample all the classic British airliners.  That would be a holiday to remember.

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, wombatofludham said:

the rot set in which led to me failing my English Literature

 

Our physics lab overlooked the WCML with numbers visible if you paid close attention. No wonder I failed A level with APT-Ps to contend with. Even late revision lessons for the retake were blighted by the space shuttle on a 747 due past. 

[Torper]

Looking back again to the 60s, I think that people were happier then.  There is no doubt that stress levels today have reached possibly intolerable levels.  People at work are stressed because they don't meet targets, have been criticised at the latest asessment, know that their job is to reviewed or that they're going to have to apply for it again or that there's a possible takepver bid, or maybe they're on a zero hours contract without holiday or sick pay and no knowledge as to how many hours they'll get next week - although they do know that if they kick up a fuss they'll get none. Hanging above many people in work is the dread of unemployment, not helped by the fact that so many of our big companies now are foreign owned and can shut down their factories here without a qualm if they think they make better profits elesewhere.  And while people now are probably wealthier, look at what they're having to do to achieve it - both parents out at work in order to pay the mortgage on a house that cost silly money but unlike elsewhere in Europe should be seen as an investment as much as a home, not to mention the credit card debts they've incurred to maintain the standard of living which they think they should have (household debts, excluding mortgages, are currently at an all-time high), their kids stressed to the eyeballs at their exam results and future propects, parents stressed at the kids behaviour but any ideas of discipline are just not on the agenda - something all too well known to teachers who are leaving the profession in droves.  I don't think there was the same massive difference between rich and poor then as there is now - wealth was probably a bit more evenly distributed or perhaps it's just that people didn't get so obscenely rich then as they do now.  Politicians, though I have no evidence of this, seemed prepared to give a little more consideration to what was good for the country rather than what was best for ther careers.  And what I remember almost most of all was the sense of optimism that prevailed then - the world was going to be a better place and we could all play a part in making it so (sadly misplaced as it turned out).

 

Now I'm white and middle class and reasonably bright, but ask me whether I'd rather be a teenager back in the 60s (which I was) or now, and I've no doubt at all what the answer would be.

 

DT

[woodenhead]

59 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Our physics lab overlooked the WCML with numbers visible if you paid close attention. No wonder I failed A level with APT-Ps to contend with. Even late revision lessons for the retake were blighted by the space shuttle on a 747 due past. 

Had a French lesson interrupted by two German F104s flying over the school and breaking the sound barrier.

 

Why they did that over Manchester I do not know 

[hayfield]

13 hours ago, Torper said:

Looking back again to the 60s, I think that people were happier then.  There is no doubt that stress levels today have reached possibly intolerable levels.  People at work are stressed because they don't meet targets, have been criticised at the latest asessment, know that their job is to reviewed or that they're going to have to apply for it again or that there's a possible takepver bid, or maybe they're on a zero hours contract without holiday or sick pay and no knowledge as to how many hours they'll get next week - although they do know that if they kick up a fuss they'll get none. Hanging above many people in work is the dread of unemployment, not helped by the fact that so many of our big companies now are foreign owned and can shut down their factories here without a qualm if they think they make better profits elesewhere.  And while people now are probably wealthier, look at what they're having to do to achieve it - both parents out at work in order to pay the mortgage on a house that cost silly money but unlike elsewhere in Europe should be seen as an investment as much as a home, not to mention the credit card debts they've incurred to maintain the standard of living which they think they should have (household debts, excluding mortgages, are currently at an all-time high), their kids stressed to the eyeballs at their exam results and future propects, parents stressed at the kids behaviour but any ideas of discipline are just not on the agenda - something all too well known to teachers who are leaving the profession in droves.  I don't think there was the same massive difference between rich and poor then as there is now - wealth was probably a bit more evenly distributed or perhaps it's just that people didn't get so obscenely rich then as they do now.  Politicians, though I have no evidence of this, seemed prepared to give a little more consideration to what was good for the country rather than what was best for ther careers.  And what I remember almost most of all was the sense of optimism that prevailed then - the world was going to be a better place and we could all play a part in making it so (sadly misplaced as it turned out).

 

Now I'm white and middle class and reasonably bright, but ask me whether I'd rather be a teenager back in the 60s (which I was) or now, and I've no doubt at all what the answer would be.

 

DT

 

 

Torper

 

You certainly have hit the nail on the head regarding stress levels at work, I do actually feel very sorry for my managers, though some of the less able ones bring it on themselves

 

Also self discipline, many youngsters say they know their rights, but totally fail to realise with these rights come responsibilities to others

 

Houses have always been seen as an investment, we have scrimped and saved all of our married life to buy our house, now reaping the benefits of being mortgage free. Well worth the financial sacrifices we made in the past which allowed us to move away from suburbia to a better quality of semi rural life where the pace of life is far better

[tomparryharry]

Aaah, I remember the past. All of that frivolity for 6d a week.  Even now, I like to gaze through the shop windows.... "HOW MUCH? JEEZ....! 

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

Houses have always been seen as an investment, we have scrimped and saved all of our married life to buy our house, now reaping the benefits of being mortgage free. Well worth the financial sacrifices we made in the past which allowed us to move away from suburbia to a better quality of semi rural life where the pace of life is far better

 

Then that's always been a problem. Houses are for living in, they can only make sense as an investment if the prices keep going up, and when the price of an essential keeps going up then you've got serious problems. The only people who should make money from housing are builders, and so investing in housing should mean investing in a building firm (which is also ignoring the problems with permanently increasing the number of buildings).

Edited August 26, 2019 by Reorte

[rob D2]

That documentary on the Scottish Tourette’s lads going fishing was hilarious...

 

in the angling shop , “ touch ma p@nis “ at the top of his voice....funny as.....

 

My sisters a fully paid up snowflake from Generation Y ( don’t you .... off) as I’ve renamed it.She went on a stand up comedy course ,  but how would she take down a heckler you can’t pick on any of their characteristics at all ??!

 

 

[royaloak]

Its taking the piss out of people with mental health issues so its fair game, they wouldnt consider taking the piss out of a wheelchair user or someone who is a different colour of  course, but mental health issues seem to be fair game these days.

 

A former friend of mine posted a 'joke' about somebody with Autism, we very quickly came to a very clear understanding hence the 'former' bit.

 

Dont take the piss out of something or someone you dont understand!

[PatB]

15 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Had a French lesson interrupted by two German F104s flying over the school and breaking the sound barrier.

 

Why they did that over Manchester I do not know 

 

Because hanging around over British cities for longer than necessary has been historically unhealthy for German aircrew? 

[Mallard60022]

16 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Had a French lesson interrupted by two German F104s flying over the school and breaking the sound barrier.

 

Why they did that over Manchester I do not know 

Liverpool supporters matey!

Ar$£

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, royaloak said:

Its taking the piss out of people with mental health issues so its fair game, they wouldnt consider taking the piss out of a wheelchair user or someone who is a different colour of  course, but mental health issues seem to be fair game these days.

 

A former friend of mine posted a 'joke' about somebody with Autism, we very quickly came to a very clear understanding hence the 'former' bit.

 

Dont take the piss out of something or someone you dont understand!

Friendly pedant mode: it is actually a Neurological Condition and that isn't quite the same, however your last sentence is spot on.

P

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

Then that's always been a problem. Houses are for living in, they can only make sense as an investment if the prices keep going up, and when the price of an essential keeps going up then you've got serious problems. The only people who should make money from housing are builders, and so investing in housing should mean investing in a building firm (which is also ignoring the problems with permanently increasing the number of buildings).

 

 

Someone has to invest in properties otherwise houses would not exist !! The luxury of walking into a council property was never an option for us, we just did not qualify with enough points to get one

[Reorte]

9 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Someone has to invest in properties otherwise houses would not exist !! The luxury of walking into a council property was never an option for us, we just did not qualify with enough points to get one

 

Yes, builders.

 

Paying for your own house shouldn't be viewed as an investment any more than paying for the food you eat or the utility bills. I pay the mortgage to keep the roof over my head, not because I have any desire to make a return on my spending in the future (which in any case goes hand in hand with having to pay even more for the next place unless you're downsizing). Similarly any work I may do on it - redecorating, getting around some day to sorting out the cellar etc., will be entirely because it makes the place a bit more how I'd like it than whether it'll add more to the value than it costs me.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Reorte

[hayfield]

Why should only builders invest in properties, sorry but what a silly idea. I have a local builder at the bottom of the road where is he going to get the money from ?

 

House builders only build houses when they can see at a profit, therefore if we only relied on builders funding house building there will always be a housing shortage as that guarenties increases in prices

 

On the other hand if you could get far more people investing in building more houses demand would reduce and house prices would fall, that in turn would create a banking crisis but that's another story and going way off topic

 

I am certain like all other house buyers, part of the benefit of buying your own property is so you do not see the cost of putting a roof over your head going to a third party in rent. In retirement many just stay put and no longer have to pay the mortgage (investing in the future)

 

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by hayfield

[Reorte]

OK builders and investing in builders (I think I said that a few posts back, and it's a generalisation - include those like the decorators and plumbers and electricians etc. that you need when you build a house).

 

I'd far rather we looked into doing something about the ever increasing demand for housing rather than the supply though.

[Colin_McLeod]

7 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

I'd far rather we looked into doing something about the ever increasing demand for housing rather than the supply though.

 

LOL. What do you suggest? Extermination, camp sites?? 

[wombatofludham]

Not quite sure how you reduce demand for housing without some drastic measures previously tried in one of our European neighbours in the 1930s but...

 

I have mixed feelings about house price inflation but it is almost entirely driven by the broken housing market which has favoured big private builders for too long.  There is a myth put out by a certain political leaning that the planning system is at fault, yet sites with planning permission, or allocated for housing are being sat on by large house building companies to inflate their shareholder value, and allow them to charge higher prices for the housing they do build.  It really is that simple.  There again, I have benefitted massively from house price inflation, I paid cash for my place here in Fairbourne out of the money left over from the sale of my place in Norfolk which had doubled in price since purchase, just in five years, reducing my 90% mortgage to less than 50%.  So, in effect I got my current place for free.  Which, given there is a ticking timebomb over the future of Fairbourne, probably is all well and good, if the place becomes worthless I've technically not lost any of my own money.

Coming back on topic, I do find it disturbing that a new generation of "entertainers" seem to deliberately set out to shock and in so doing seem to miss any target or justification they claim to be really aiming at.  I absolutely hated Little Britain, not just because it was terminally unfunny and repetitive, but some of the "characters" just came across as nasty caricatures that didn't actually achieve any "message" or hit any legitimate "target" for satire.  I am happy to laugh with people who are using some of their personal issues as material to highlight their plight, so long as they don't come across as if they are doing it because they feel "obliged" to do so (rather like Lenny Henry did in his early career where he admits now to have made race related jokes and routines he feels today were crass and pandered to contemporary sensibilities) and I often make dark jokes and post dark humour about my own suicidal depression.  But when some shock, so called comedian, targets groups as some sort of offence offensive, no.  Not on.  If that makes me a snowflake, so be it.

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

LOL. What do you suggest? Extermination, camp sites?? 

 

Always someone who thinks that's a clever answer when you raise issues about the problems caused by growing populations. What do you suggest? Ignoring the issue  or pretending it isn't one because there isn't an easy answer certainly won't get us anywhere.

 

FWIW the birth rate is below replacement so having reasonably balanced immigration and emigration, which should be doable but is obviously a political hot potato, should be part of it. It won't change things immediately and will bring the usual complaints about how many people are working but again, you can't use that to ignore the issue and effectively argue for an indefinitely growing population either. No, it's doable in the UK without having to cross any ethical boundaries. It's other parts of the world where that's a much harder issue (although raising education and living standards usually helps a lot).

Edited August 26, 2019 by Reorte

[Reorte]

56 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

I have mixed feelings about house price inflation but it is almost entirely driven by the broken housing market which has favoured big private builders for too long.  There is a myth put out by a certain political leaning that the planning system is at fault, yet sites with planning permission, or allocated for housing are being sat on by large house building companies to inflate their shareholder value, and allow them to charge higher prices for the housing they do build.  It really is that simple.  There again, I have benefitted massively from house price inflation, I paid cash for my place here in Fairbourne out of the money left over from the sale of my place in Norfolk which had doubled in price since purchase, just in five years, reducing my 90% mortgage to less than 50%.  So, in effect I got my current place for free.  Which, given there is a ticking timebomb over the future of Fairbourne, probably is all well and good, if the place becomes worthless I've technically not lost any of my own money.

 

I think the largest cause (albeit not the only one) of house price inflation was very cheap credit, which made it possible for people to take on bigger mortgages. That only made places more affordable at first, before long the result was just paying more for the same place.

[wombatofludham]

I'd call it a contributory factor.  Certainly when I was studying economics as part of my Town Planning degree we saw some reports which suggested that the UK's obsession with house ownership, compared with continental Europe where renting is more normal, was that it encouraged capital to move towards house ownership instead of other more beneficial (to the economy) uses like investment in industry and business creation.  In effect, the dominance of lending for the purchase of housing has sucked investment out of the economy, as well as saddling the population with long term debt that reduces their mobility to move jobs, or change career.

 

Of course the UK population will never accept this, the fact younger people are described as being "forced" into renting by politicians and this is seen as something to be pitied shows that the UK mindset is different.  

 

It's also a salutary point that the average German family has far more savings and far less debt than the average UK family, helped no doubt by the cost of property loans.

 

Of course I do lay myself open to calls of hypocrisy in that I've done very nicely out of the broken housing system but unfortunately it's the system we have.  

[royaloak]

9 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Friendly pedant mode: it is actually a Neurological Condition and that isn't quite the same, however your last sentence is spot on.

P

fair point.

[Classsix T]

To the OP, having just watched the latest Dave Chappelle outing... 

 

...Eff 'em.

 

No comedian should have to justify his craft. Comedy satarises the human condition of being twats. Generally. Victims of or perpetrators of. 

 

You'll notice it was parents of tourettes children that were initially offended and the chief of the organisation that expressed 'outrage' on their behalf. We know for a fact of course that the initial comedian is not Tourettes afflicted?

 

I've seen some incredibly near the knuckle comedy in my time and frankly this doesn't even register.

 

C6T.