A quick poll - offensive or not?

[pylonman]

2 hours ago, Pete 75C said:

In today's Independent...

 

A Tourette Syndrome charity has asked for an apology after a pun inspired by the neurological disorder won Funniest Joke at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

Olaf Falafel was revealed on Monday as this year’s winner of Dave’s Funniest Joke.

 

The joke:

“I keep randomly shouting out ‘broccoli’ and ‘cauliflower’ – I think I might have florets.”

 

Now I know it's fashionable to be offended by everything (I can't subscribe to that), but I actually thought it was quite funny. Maybe I'm just a dinosaur, but I think I'm definitely doomed.

 

 

 

I think you're quite right when you say that we are supposed to be offended by anything and everything.

I think an incredible number of people really need to prioritise what is important and what isn't.

 

Maybe we're both just dinosaurs, and we're both definitely doomed !!!

[TheQ]

36 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Or we're just getting old......

 

In the 1910s - give women the vote, the world's gone mad

In the 1970s - give women equal rights, the worlds gone mad

 

You wouldn't question that women should have the vote or have equal rights so perhaps where we are now is the natural progression, for people a lot younger than us it is the norm, we're just old school.

If women have equal rights, why were they campaining to have their pension date reduced to 60 on the news?...

[Mark Saunders]

3 hours ago, TheQ said:

If women have equal rights, why were they campaining to have their pension date reduced to 60 on the news?...

 

All animals are equal but some are more equal than others!

Edited August 20, 2019 by Mark Saunders

[Steamport Southport]

I don't think it's offensive. Just not a very good joke and surely not the best of the entire festival.

 

Funny for a Swede though. They definitely have no sense of humour, apart from liking Monty Python. 

 

 

 

Jason

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

45 minutes ago, TheQ said:

If women have equal rights, why were they campaining to have their pension date reduced to 60 on the news?...

The campaign I am aware of is not proposing that, but is looking for a longer transition period than the current schedule of changes to state pension age, especially given that most women have had inferior pay opportunity compared to men until very recently, and also had the 'traditional' pattern of time out of employment for childbearing and rearing; and thus their ability to plan adequately for retirement has been impaired.

 

There is another argument that broadly says that men and women are not equal, and that many women find that post menopause the capacity to keep working until the revised state pension age significantly diminishes.

[Reorte]

1 minute ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

There is another argument that broadly says that men and women are not equal, and that many women find that post menopause the capacity to keep working until the revised state pension age significantly diminishes.

 

Yet on the other hand the life expectancy of women is higher than that of men.

[Sprintex]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I got severely told off, when on being informed that a Schizophrenia support society (which had something of a turbulent history)  had split and there were now two factions each with its own chairman and committee, spontaneously came out with: "Oh no, they will be in four minds about everything now".

 

 

That would be funny if it wasn't perpetuating the common myth that Schizophrenia is the same as Multiple Personality Disorder.

Schizophrenia is usually characterised by detachment from reality, hearing voices that don't actually exist, hostility, depression or general confusion.

Multiple Personality Disorder is usually where the sufferer has two or more distinct personas with their own character traits, as you suggested.

 

Paul

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 minute ago, Reorte said:

Yet on the other hand the life expectancy of women is higher than that of men.

Well indeed. Politically it is a minefield. The state pension was created at a time when reaching 75 was pretty exceptional, the median claim period would be five years for men retiring at 65, twelve years for women retiring at 60, there or thereabouts. (Considerable savings to the scheme resulted from the large numbers who paid their national insurance but obligingly failed to claim the state pension, due to death before retirement age.)

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 minute ago, Sprintex said:

That would be funny if it wasn't perpetuating the common myth that Schizophrenia is the same as Multiple Personality Disorder.

Schizophrenia is usually characterised by detachment from reality, hearing voices that don't actually exist, hostility, depression or general confusion.

Multiple Personality Disorder is usually where the sufferer has two or more distinct personas with their own character traits, as you suggested.

Unfortunately, whatever the facts may be, that shorthand 'understanding' was then (near thirty years ago) and I suspect may be even now, what is generally perceived.

[wombatofludham]

I think part of the problem is Tourettes is a seriously debilitating condition that 99% of the population simply don't understand and think is funny, and that can lead those who suffer from it, or those who try to help them, to be constantly in a relatively hostile environment which will lead to reactions like this.  The problem is society today is more reactionary in both directions - calling people "snowflakes" and making comments about "political correctness" from people who probably think the kind of jokes that were the stock trade of 1970s television so-called comedies are acceptable, and the professional complainers and seekers of offence in the other direction, are just symptoms of a modern society that has become more divided.  This thread has already illustrated this albeit in a relatively calm manner.

 

Whilst I can understand why the charity might have reacted the way it has, I don't think it is correct to do so as the joke clearly wasn't laughing at sufferers of Tourettes, it was just a play on words.  I can understand though, to people who are the butt of societal misunderstanding and judgement in their daily lives, even mild wordplay could be seen as re-enforcing the daily distress and upset they are subject to by those who think their condition is funny.  I think we need to cut them a bit of slack before piling in with criticism.

[jonny777]

The biggest gripe amongst women of a certain age, is not that the pension age was rising to be equal with mens; but having announced that decision years ago they had a sudden cost cutting wheeze and brought forward the age at which it came in line with men, yet only gave a couple of years notice of the acceleration. 

 

Women who were resigned to not getting their pension at 60 thought they would get a pension at 63 as per the original plan, were suddenly told they would not get it until 65 or even 66. 

 

However, even though it has been debated on the floor of the HoC, and in a couple of parliamentary committees, it would seem that the general government attitude is - tough. 

 

I have kept this as apolitical as possible, due to forum rules; but I can assure you that there are a lot of angry women out there who will not be voting for certain political parties ever again. 

 

 

[BoD]

Quite a few women of a certain age took early retirement, their financial planning based upon getting their state pension at 63.

[Steamport Southport]

45 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

The biggest gripe amongst women of a certain age, is not that the pension age was rising to be equal with mens; but having announced that decision years ago they had a sudden cost cutting wheeze and brought forward the age at which it came in line with men, yet only gave a couple of years notice of the acceleration. 

 

Women who were resigned to not getting their pension at 60 thought they would get a pension at 63 as per the original plan, were suddenly told they would not get it until 65 or even 66. 

 

However, even though it has been debated on the floor of the HoC, and in a couple of parliamentary committees, it would seem that the general government attitude is - tough. 

 

I have kept this as apolitical as possible, due to forum rules; but I can assure you that there are a lot of angry women out there who will not be voting for certain political parties ever again. 

 

 

 

Angry Birds?  

 

 

Before anyone starts complaining, that's a joke.

 

 

Jason

[hayfield]

When I was young we all had fun together, whether it was at home, work , in the football dressing room etc. Its called banter when it was done in jest and everyone joined in, never got out of hand and carried on back down the pub and must be seen totally separate from bullying, which in some places did go on but was frowned on by all

 

My dad being a bald welshman was known as either ginger or curley by his friends and work mates, he loved the names. we are all too touchy now, taking offence at the slightest thing, always wanting to be compensated when things go wrong, perhaps its the so called pressure of modern life with all its trappings that has changed folk. Nothing wrong laughing with people !!

[Phil Parker]

5 minutes ago, hayfield said:

When I was young we all had fun together, whether it was at home, work , in the football dressing room etc. Its called banter when it was done in jest and everyone joined in, never got out of hand and carried on back down the pub and must be seen totally separate from bullying, which in some places did go on but was frowned on by all

 

And women "knew their place" - it was acceptable to sack them when they got married, and certainly if they fell pregnant. You could also have signs in windows saying "No blacks or Irish".

 

Head back further and you find an era when mentally ill people were considered entertainment, with visits to asylums to laugh at the inmates being considered normal. 

 

There never was a golden age. All "jokes" are funny when you aren't the butt of them. Bullying is fine if you are the bully, but not the victim. If things had been so perfect, they wouldn't have changed much.

[melmerby]

I think the problem with this joke is

a) First you need to associate it with Tourettes

b) Then you need to think that Tourettes sufferers are to be laughed at.

 

Without the assciation with Tourettes the joke is just not funny.

Neither me or SWMBO thought it was funny and importantly neither of us associated it with Tourettes.

 

 

[The Johnster]

I don't find it particularly offensive but can see why some people do.  I find it no more than mildly funny, the sort of thing a stand up might throw in to play for time while he's thinking what to do next.

 

Most jokes used by standups aren't actually all that funny, relying on delivery, tonal inflection, and nanosecond timing for impact, along with a mood built up the comic over the routine.

[hayfield]

2 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

And women "knew their place" - it was acceptable to sack them when they got married, and certainly if they fell pregnant. You could also have signs in windows saying "No blacks or Irish".

 

Head back further and you find an era when mentally ill people were considered entertainment, with visits to asylums to laugh at the inmates being considered normal. 

 

There never was a golden age. All "jokes" are funny when you aren't the butt of them. Bullying is fine if you are the bully, but not the victim. If things had been so perfect, they wouldn't have changed much.

 

 

I grew up with a West Indian Family from St Lucia, they were welcome in our community. Our football team stuck together from when we were about 8 till our 30's, we joined the local sunday league when we were 18 and always had at least 2 of the brothers in the team sometimes up to 4. We were always known as a team of friends, multiracial was not invented then. During our playing career despite initially one of the few to have a coloured player I never over 16 years hears any racist comments, I never ever saw any signs about blacks or irish (the town had a large Irish community at that time). Yes I saw some racism then it was in the open, to be quite honest I see as much now

 

As far as women were regarded, they were respected and certainly never put down, never came across anyone who was sacked for being pregnant, many like my wife chose to stop working to bring up their children, my wife took the opportunity to take a second collage course which assisted her when she returned to the work place. Women who I knew and worked with were respected and treated fairly. To be quite honest some women are treated far worst now

 

Going back to the 60's/70's the next village had a large Jewish community, everyone got on with each other. When I left 3 years ago sadly things had changed slightly for the worst owing to incommers,

 

"There never was a golden age. All "jokes" are funny when you aren't the butt of them. Bullying is fine if you are the bully, but not the victim. If things had been so perfect, they wouldn't have changed much."

 

Never said there was a golden age, I had the fun taken out of me and I gave as good as I got, it was friendly banter, we laughed together as friends do. As I said we did not tolerate bulling. Things were much better than today, sadly its changed for the worst. 

[Zomboid]

It's not very funny. At least not when it's just written down.

 

But I can understand why some would be offended. It's a condition that some people have who didn't choose it. Ultimately it's the same as using any other physical characteristic as the basis of humour. Would it be acceptable to make a joke which is a pun on black people having naturally curly hair? It's essentially the same thing.

 

I had a guy work for me for a while who had tourettes, though not at the shouting stuff level, just a few involuntary twitches from time to time.

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

And women "knew their place" - it was acceptable to sack them when they got married, and certainly if they fell pregnant. You could also have signs in windows saying "No blacks or Irish".

 

Head back further and you find an era when mentally ill people were considered entertainment, with visits to asylums to laugh at the inmates being considered normal. 

 

There never was a golden age. All "jokes" are funny when you aren't the butt of them. Bullying is fine if you are the bully, but not the victim. If things had been so perfect, they wouldn't have changed much.

 

Part of life is knowing where banter ends and bullying begins. That some people don't and confuse one for the other (either way) isn't a good reason to play it safe and eliminate it altogether - the cure there is worse than the disease. A safe but sterile life is no life any more than the opposite extreme.

 

No-one's ever claimed things had been perfect, but even if they were it doesn't mean that it's impossible to fall from perfection.

[Phil Parker]

4 minutes ago, Reorte said:

No-one's ever claimed things had been perfect,

 

You really need to read the Internet. I think you'll find that "perfect" according to many commentators is usually about 25 years ago.

Since then, the world has gone to hell in a handcart, toy trains were cheaper and cars were better and England won at cricket and footballers were polite to their mothers and kids were given a friendly clip around the ear by the local bobby and no-one ever got sick or fat... (Continue until one of the popular newspapers offers you a column).

[Ozexpatriate]

25 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

I think you'll find that "perfect" according to many commentators is usually about 25 years ago.

Since then, the world has gone to hell in a handcart, ... England won at cricket

Yeah, I'm not so sure about that! 1994-95 Ashes Australia 3 / England 1, Drawn 1

 

As to jokes, it is said that comedy = tragedy + timing

On some level they are always a bit heartless.

[rab]

Humour is dead. Long live humour!

[Guest]

As a bit of context here's an excerpt from Welcome to Biscuit Land by Jessica Thom. It describes a night out with Tourettes.

 

NO ANGEL

Ruth texted me earlier to ask if I wanted to join her and some friends for a drink tonight. I was totally up for it, but the only thing putting me off was the journey. Having Tourettes and using public transport can be a gruelling combination. It’s hard enough trying to get my hands to hold on to anything long enough to keep me steady without having to worry about the unpredictable reactions of other passengers. I wasn’t sure if I could face travelling across London on my own. But I wanted to see Ruth so I set off by tube for North London to meet her. The journey was going well until one stop before where I’d planned to get off. The driver announced that Angel station was closed due to flooding, so I got off at Old Street and went up the escalator. I approached two members of staff who were standing together by the ticket barriers and asked one of them for the best way to get to Angel. He ignored me, so I asked again, but he turned his back on me to speak to another passenger. I moved round and explained that I had Tourettes, that if I was swearing or making unusual movements they were not directed at him, and that I just needed some information. He looked at me and said, ‘I’m not giving you any information.’ I was shocked and asked him why he’d sworn at me like that. He didn’t answer and just walked away. I tried again to explain about Tourettes but he continued to ignore me. I realised that trying to make him understand was pointless and decided it would be best to find someone else to help, but the other member of staff had gone away. I tried to get through the ticket barrier, but when I swiped my freedom pass it didn’t work so I had to go back to the same member of staff and ask him to let me out. He said he would let me through when I stopped swearing. I started to cry and said, ‘I can’t stop swearing – I’ve got Tourettes Syndrome.’ He walked away again and left me in tears, stuck behind the barrier. I felt humiliated and didn’t know what to do so I called out to anyone in the ticket hall for assistance. I shouted, ‘I need help to get out and this man isn’t helping me.’ Most people walked past and I began to sob. A woman on the other side of the barrier came over and asked what was happening. I couldn’t tell her straightaway because I was so upset. The member of staff who’d refused to help me pointed at a side gate and said, ‘Tell her to go over there.’ I walked round and spoke briefly to the woman who’d helped me. When I stopped crying I approached the ticket office to make a complaint and get the directions I needed. The man at the desk listened politely and said he’d call the station supervisor. This turned out to be the man who’d gone away when I first asked for directions. I explained that I had Tourettes and described what had just happened. I asked him to write down the name of the member of staff who’d sworn at me but he refused, saying he didn’t have to give that information to me. He went on, ‘If you want to make a complaint, you know the station and the time.’ I asked if he would write down his own name, but he said, ‘You can see it here’, pointing to his badge. I asked him again and he reluctantly wrote his first name on the back of an old receipt. I left the station and found the quietest place I could to call Leftwing Idiot. To start with I described what had happened calmly, but as I repeated what the man had said I broke down again. I didn’t feel like going out any more and couldn’t face getting back on public transport, so I decided to take a cab home. I called Ruth, and sadly she understood all too well how it felt to be treated in this way. The cab came and as soon as I got in I began to explain my tics to the driver. Before I’d finished he stopped me and said, ‘You’ve got Tourettes. No worries here – my best mate of twenty years has Tourettes, you’re in the right cab.’ And I was. He was brilliant, and by the time I got home I felt much calmer and more cheerful. I went to Leftwing Idiot’s and hung out with him and some other friends. I can understand that if you’ve not met someone with Tourettes before some tics can be challenging. But it’s really not right for people working with the public to be disrespectful and unhelpful. I’ve already written a letter to Transport for London to complain – it’ll be interesting to see how they respond.

 

 

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

It would seem to me that the hidden hand of self appointed, auto offended, political correct subversives have yet again had another underhanded, back stabbing assault upon the freedom of speech.

 

All we hear form such low life is, " Hate Speech! - Hate Speech! ", when what they really want is  " NO SPEECH !!! -  NO SPEECH !!! ".

 

I suggest that they start immediately and silence themselves.

 

Mr Besmanov explains quite clearly what their agenda is below:

 

 

Gibbo.