RMweb Gold russ p Posted July 15, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2019 11s seem a bit of a minefield with details, the one on the north Norfolk has four marker lights which I suspect were fitted in preservation but I have seen pictures of them in service with four. It also has wipers and these were fitted before it was on the railway so either BR or NCB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 15, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2019 1 hour ago, russ p said: 11s seem a bit of a minefield with details, the one on the north Norfolk has four marker lights which I suspect were fitted in preservation but I have seen pictures of them in service with four. It also has wipers and these were fitted before it was on the railway so either BR or NCB Hi Russ The LMR seemed to keep with just the two lights. Some ER locos had four lights fitted some time in the sixties. The rear conduit run was not the same as on a BR 350 on some locos, I think it was a Stratford own design. 12108 has the ER style and 12127 has BR style. The six (G)WR locos also received 4 lights same as an early class 08. The SR class 12s did get six lights fore and aft in two styles of conduit run . Also note the ER based class 11, the (G)WR and the class 12 locomotives received windscreen wipers. The LMR locos seemed never to have had them fitted. Here is number 15232 with the air brake pipes on the buffer beam as mentioned by Stu (Lapford) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 There will be a limit to the number of tooling variations we can accommodate to cover individual variations. (CJL) 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted July 15, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2019 14 minutes ago, dibber25 said: There will be a limit to the number of tooling variations we can accommodate to cover individual variations. (CJL) How about including some additional marker lights on the detailing sprue, to enable purchasers to produce variants not available within the main releases. Regards, John isherwood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 15, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2019 33 minutes ago, dibber25 said: There will be a limit to the number of tooling variations we can accommodate to cover individual variations. (CJL) Hi Chris I can fully understand that, but as modellers we can use those toolings to customize our purchase(s) to the variation we want especially as they are minor variations. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 2 hours ago, cctransuk said: How about including some additional marker lights on the detailing sprue, to enable purchasers to produce variants not available within the main releases. Regards, John isherwood. That sort of thing, we can probably do. The restrictions are in the main tooling, if lots of separate slides are needed in different places. I'll need to keep fairly quiet on this one, though, as it's a class of loco that I know nothing about. Must admit, I was never that much into diesel shunters - DMUs, hydraulics and steam were more my 'thing'. (CJL) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted July 15, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2019 The one on the north Norfolk was at Stratford I believe so lights and wipers were probably done there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted July 15, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2019 2 hours ago, dibber25 said: That sort of thing, we can probably do. The restrictions are in the main tooling, if lots of separate slides are needed in different places. I'll need to keep fairly quiet on this one, though, as it's a class of loco that I know nothing about. Must admit, I was never that much into diesel shunters - DMUs, hydraulics and steam were more my 'thing'. (CJL) Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me can suggest what detailing items would be required to make the model as useful to modellers as is reasonably possible? Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, cctransuk said: Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me can suggest what detailing items would be required to make the model as useful to modellers as is reasonably possible? Regards, John Isherwood. Believe me, where this particular class is concerned we have plenty of expertise, both on our staff and at Heljan - it's just not a loco that I know anything about, so I'm leaving it to those who do. (CJL) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 13/07/2019 at 10:12, PenrithBeacon said: I think that the lack of wheels in EM/P4 would knacker any conversion. This loco had 4"-0.5" wheels with the 'bevelled' rim. The 08 had 4'-6" also with the bevelled rim. I don't know how many spokes in either case. Wheels for the 08 are readily available, but there are, to the best of my knowledge, no wheels available that feature a 4'-0" o/d, bevelled rim and no crankpin. I suppose that those with a lathe could modify the RTR wheels, but for the rest of us this model is best passed by. A pity but there it is. Regards I don't think it matters whether the replacement wheels have crankpin bosses or not ....... 99.999999% of the population wouldn't turn your model over to see whether they were hiding behind the frames ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Wickham Green said: I don't think it matters whether the replacement wheels have crankpin bosses or not ....... 99.999999% of the population wouldn't turn your model over to see whether they were hiding behind the frames ! With respect, it isn't possible to hide the rim! It will be possible to carve away the crankpin boss, even my limited skills will allow for that, but the bevelled rim is very distinctive and that is going to present issues for the finescale modeller. This model, as welcome as it is, will not work for the finescale modeller unless the wheels are available, and as both AGW and Ultrascale have clearly moved their attention away from wheels to developing other parts of their businesses, I really don't think that is going to happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wickham Green said: I don't think it matters whether the replacement wheels have crankpin bosses or not ....... 99.999999% of the population wouldn't turn your model over to see whether they were hiding behind the frames ! I wouldn't be so sure. I was exhibiting my layout at the Woking show and this well dressed bloke reached over the barrier picked up a scratchbuilt loco. Looked underneath it and bumbled in a posh plumb in the mouth accent " It is not Hornby" and plonked down on the layout not even back on the tracks. And just walked off. I have had someone reach over and pick up, yet another scratchbuilt loco, off the stock table. He then proceeded to have an argument with the trader next door to me as it didn't have a price tag on it and he wanted to know how much it was. He did not believe the trader or me that it wasn't for sale and it was mine. As I am on about scratchbuilt locos, anyone want the parts to build two class 11 shunters, motors, gears, wheels, plastic card, fly cranks ? Or shall I keep them and still have a bash? As for crank pin bosses, they are not noticeable on locos with outside frames. Not the worlds best but all my own work. Edited July 16, 2019 by Clive Mortimore 5 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 37 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said: I was exhibiting my layout at the Woking show and this well dressed bloke reached over the barrier picked up a scratchbuilt loco. Looked underneath it and bumbled in a posh plumb in the mouth accent " It is not Hornby" and plonked down on the layout not even back on the tracks. And just walked off. I have had some reach over and pick up, yet another scratchbuilt loco, off the stock table. He then proceeded to have an argument with the trader next door to me as it didn't have a price tag on it and he wanted to know how much it was. He did not believe the trader or me that it wasn't for sale and it was mine. Some people are just flat-out rude! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said: ...I was exhibiting my layout at the Woking show and this well dressed bloke reached over the barrier picked up a scratchbuilt loco. Looked underneath it and bumbled in a posh plum in the mouth accent " It is not Hornby" and plonked down on the layout not even back on the tracks. And just walked off... Last reported sighting of Lord Faynesquale. You lucky man... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 5 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said: With respect, it isn't possible to hide the rim! It will be possible to carve away the crankpin boss, even my limited skills will allow for that, but the bevelled rim is very distinctive and that is going to present issues for the finescale modeller. This model, as welcome as it is, will not work for the finescale modeller unless the wheels are available, and as both AGW and Ultrascale have clearly moved their attention away from wheels to developing other parts of their businesses, I really don't think that is going to happen. With all due respect - I don't think I said anything about rims !!?! ............................. have you investigated the possibility of using tender wheels ? Incidentally, while on the subject of wheels, I'm a little concerned that I don't think I've seen any mention, on this thread, of the fact that the ( BFB ) wheels under a 'Class 12' are bigger than those of its L.M.S. predecessor ... I hope Heljan are aware of this !!?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, Wickham Green said: With all due respect - I don't think I said anything about rims !!?! ............................. have you investigated the possibility of using tender wheels ? Incidentally, while on the subject of wheels, I'm a little concerned that I don't think I've seen any mention, on this thread, of the fact that the ( BFB ) wheels under a 'Class 12' are bigger than those of its L.M.S. predecessor ... I hope Heljan are aware of this !!?! A research package will be put together by Model Rail and supplied to Heljan's UK agent. Whether it is possible to incorporate all the detail differences, only time will tell. (CJL) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Wickham Green said: With all due respect - I don't think I said anything about rims !!?! ............................. have you investigated the possibility of using tender wheels ? Incidentally, while on the subject of wheels, I'm a little concerned that I don't think I've seen any mention, on this thread, of the fact that the ( BFB ) wheels under a 'Class 12' are bigger than those of its L.M.S. predecessor ... I hope Heljan are aware of this !!?! Yes and AGW don't do a tender wheel of the appropriate size with a bevelled rim. Can you stop trolling now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Excellent news, guess I can put the Lima and Bachmann bodies back in the stash From the IRS handbook it looks like in addition to the NCB loco offered, the following locos mentioned on the initial list also ended up in Industrial service C.11 12052 - NCBOE Widdington coal disposal point 12049 - Day and Sons (London) C.12 15224 - Kent coalfields Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnfromoz Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Would love to recreate the ones which languished at Stratford in the early 1970s, ending up in the storage lines withe the Baby Deltics. They had a strange patina of oil, black paint and rust on them giving them an overall charcoal look. Can't even remember idenifying a totem on them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chris116 Posted July 17, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Down_Under said: Excellent news, guess I can put the Lima and Bachmann bodies back in the stash From the IRS handbook it looks like in addition to the NCB loco offered, the following locos mentioned on the initial list also ended up in Industrial service C.11 12052 - NCBOE Widdington coal disposal point 12049 - Day and Sons (London) C.12 15224 - Kent coalfields 12049 was then donated by Day and Sons to the Mid Hants Railway. Sadly it was destroyed by the fire at Ropley which also claimed an ex LSWR Dining coach. The full explanation is on the MHR website which I quote "The original 12049 was purchased by DAY Aggregates at Brentford, South West London, and used to shunt their internal sidings. Sadly 12049 was damaged beyond repair by a fire at Ropley in 2010, and has subsequently been replaced by sister 12082 from Barrow Hill and numbered as 12049. Service History: 12082 was built at Derby Works in November 1950 and initially allocated to Carlisle Kingmoor shed (68A). She moved around between Kingmoor, Carlisle Upperby, Speke Junction and Toton sheds before moving to Crewe Diesel Depot (5A) on 10/12/66. Her final allocation for British Rail was to Llandudno Junction (6G) on 15/08/70, staying there until being withdrawn from service on 03/10/71. From this point onwards 12082 worked in industrial service for the NCB and latterly the Harry Needle Railway Company, before moving to the Mid Hants Railway in 2010." Edited July 17, 2019 by Chris116 Better and more accurate information Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted July 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 17, 2019 Why are people getting agitated about the possibilities/ramifications of finescale conversions, the model is years away from production and we don't know what it will incorporate, it might even be an easy conversion so chill out. Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Good advice, I chilled as soon as I realised that the wheels aren't available and are unlikely to be, ever. I've got several 08s stashed away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 What are the differences between an 08 and an 11? I can't see anything obvious... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said: What are the differences between an 08 and an 11? I can't see anything obvious... 03 IGMC 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted July 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said: What are the differences between an 08 and an 11? I can't see anything obvious... There are loads to be honest. The 11 has smaller wheels a has a different shape cab . The front windows are a different shape. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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