MrB Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 With 12052 & 12093 preserved and operational at the Caledonian Railway it'll be hard not to buy one black (early emblem) and green (late crest)! 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shunny Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 If these are up to the standard of the recent 05 and 07 they should be great. Heljan seem to be good at small shunters, l hope they might do the Scottish 06 one day or maybe one for Model rail in the future. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted July 11, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 11, 2019 Was there ever an 11 in black with wasp stripes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) As much I am a Big Four modeller who is certainly going to slam down a pre-order for both LMS examples, I'm going to have to get one of the BR examples renumbered as SVR resident 12099. 12099 has always been my favourite SVR diesel shunter since I first saw her. This may however open the door to me getting other SVR residents now...!! Edited July 11, 2019 by Garethp8873 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hadyn Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 I started my preservation volunteering life in 1988 on 12099, needle gunning the orange off her. One of those is a definite must! I even researched her life and provided the material for the SVR stock book entry on it. Nice one. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted July 11, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 11, 2019 Would loved to have read about it but my copy of MR hasn’t arrived, even more annoying is I drive past the offices every day lol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 11, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 11, 2019 49 minutes ago, russ p said: Was there ever an 11 in black with wasp stripes? Hi Russ There are black and white photos of class 11s with the Lion on the Unicycle totem with wasp ends. Very few locos carried the totem in green livery so the photos where a loco has the totem not the emblem could well be black. Todate I am unaware of a colour photo of a black class 11 with wasp ends. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted July 11, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 11, 2019 49 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said: Hi Russ There are black and white photos of class 11s with the Lion on the Unicycle totem with wasp ends. Very few locos carried the totem in green livery so the photos where a loco has the totem not the emblem could well be black. Todate I am unaware of a colour photo of a black class 11 with wasp ends. There's a photo on Colour Rail reputed to be 1966, it has a blue FYE Class 40 in the background so looks correct cate. 12051 at Warrington Arpley with early emblem, wasp stripes and 'British Railways' showing through the worn paintwork. Other pictures on the site have 12055 with wasp stripes and early emblem in 1970, allegedly in green but not really clear enough to tell for certain and 12054 still carrying 'British Railways' in 1957 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Beware of some class 11's in preservation, as they have had exhauster boxes added, look at the above photos of 12099, and so look more like 08's. The class 11's and 12's in BR use never had vacuum brakes fitted, although some Class 12's did have air brake capability fitted towards the end of thier lives. Paul J. 2 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 24 minutes ago, Swindon 123 said: Beware of some class 11's in preservation, as they have had exhauster boxes added, look at the above photos of 12099, and so look more like 08's. The class 11's and 12's in BR use never had vacuum brakes fitted, although some Class 12's did have air brake capability fitted towards the end of thier lives. Paul J. Three of them from 1970 according to Wiki. 15230–15232 Air from 1970 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_12 Something I was looking at as I was wondering whether they were used as station pilots. Seems not. http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/class12.html Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil gollin Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) . Edited July 12, 2019 by phil gollin Edited for idiocy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 5944 Posted July 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2019 19 hours ago, adb968008 said: Gosh it’s refreshing to see a new modern image type... I'm not sure a 75 year old design counts as modern image! 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted July 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2019 8 hours ago, Swindon 123 said: Beware of some class 11's in preservation, as they have had exhauster boxes added, look at the above photos of 12099, and so look more like 08's. The class 11's and 12's in BR use never had vacuum brakes fitted, although some Class 12's did have air brake capability fitted towards the end of their lives. Paul J. I remember them as yard shunters in the West Midlands, much the equivalent of the Steam Braked Jinty. In the late 1950s the local allocations were used for Bushbury yards (2), Bescot (2), and Aston Goods/ Curzon Street (4) on the LNW lines There was also one at Ryecroft but I dont know the purpose of that, possibly the goods depot by Walsall station and the PWay yard. Saltley had a big allocation of 13 , plus 6 08s for Lawley Street, Duddeston Sidings, Washwood Heath, Bromford Bridge and Water Orton. Four, along with 15101 and 15103 were used at Tyseley during the early 1950s, but these were replaced by the first five 08s, 13000-04. The latter were replaced by 13025-29 about a year later. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapford34102 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: Three of them from 1970 according to Wiki. 15230–15232 Air from 1970 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_12 Something I was looking at as I was wondering whether they were used as station pilots. Seems not. Hi, They were something of an ad-hoc solution to the lack of air braked shunters for the Bournemouth electrification and were used mainly at Bomo and Weymouth. They only lasted a short time before the A/B'd 03's with high level pipes came along and took over. They could, and did, shunt A/B'd MK 1's and TC's, the latter using hose extensions in the same way as non push-pull Cromptons headed TC units. They were used on the Weymouth Tramway for the Boat trains. At least one arrived with 3 link couplings and had to be hastily supplied with a screw coupling. They worked fine but not particularly liked primarily because of visibility running hood forward down the tram. Definitely on the list but I've been collecting bits to do one from an 08 inspired by EM Gauge 70's http://emgauge70s.co.uk/model_omwb154.html However with a longish wait in prospect may well carry on with it. Stu Edited July 12, 2019 by lapford34102 Appalling spelling! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) Prompted by this thread I've just opened my electronic copy of the mag. This model is most welcome and I shall certainly be ordering one of the LMS liveried examples. One thing though, the editorial says that this model will be suitable for 1930s layouts but that isn't true, the prototype was very much a 1940s to early 1970s machine. A question to Chris Leigh, is it being designed so it will suitable for conversion to EM/P4? Regards Edited July 12, 2019 by PenrithBeacon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pillar Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Are there any photos of these in ICI use? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 15 hours ago, dibber25 said: I love 18000's looks but I sometimes wonder if I would have enjoyed how it sounded or smelled. Having lived under the Heathrow flightpath for half my life, I guess the sound and the smell might be all too familiar! However, 18000 would be a bit big and too streamlined for Model Rail. We've just done a steam loco that looks like a garden shed, now we're doing a diesel that looks like a bunch of tin lockers nailed together! I guess what it lacked in beauty, it made up for with pretty colour schemes - and there are loads to choose from!. (CJL) Ah yes, the whiff! “Kerosene Castle”. Smells can be very evocative, not necessarily in a good way. Diesel exhaust used to stink a lot worse than it does nowadays but the evil smell takes me back to messing about in cruise boats. The racket which comes from the turbines in the APT-E is very impressive but I can well understand that the stream of jet airliners over your head would leave you unenthused. Model Rail does seem to go for the small stuff and does it very well. The USA Tanks were breathtaking. As for the 11s and 12s, apart from anything else, they fill two gaps at a stroke and I dare say that I’m not alone in looking at unmodelled TOPS codes. A very good choice! I wonder if Kernow might be persuaded once the steam railmotor is well in hand. If the Bulleid diesels and the diesel hydraulics have sold well, why wouldn’t the turbines? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 53 minutes ago, Pillar said: Are there any photos of these in ICI use? http://www.llangollen-railway.org.uk/davydieselshunter.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 2 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said: Prompted by this thread I've just opened my electronic copy of the mag. This model is most welcome and I shall certainly be ordering one of the LMS liveried examples. One thing though, the editorial says that this model will be suitable for 1930s layouts but that isn't true, the prototype was very much a 1940s to early 1970s machine. A question to Chris Leigh, is it being designed so it will suitable for conversion to EM/P4? Regards Not something I can answer, but I would expect it will be a standard Heljan mechanism design and i don't know if they suit easy conversion or not. In general such considerations add to the cost (unless they are already built in to standard components and assembly methods) and with margins being very tight these days it usually doesn't make economic sense to spend a lot extra for a few extra sales. It's early days yet, anyway, so I doubt that any design work has yet been undertaken. (CJL) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapford34102 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 12 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: Three of them from 1970 according to Wiki. 15230–15232 Air from 1970 Just to update this, not sure where Wiki got the info but four, 15230 - 15233, were A/B'd. 15231 was the errant 3 link equipped one. Hopefully Heljan won't need reminding that the Class 12's had additional pairs of marker lights front and rear. Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted July 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2019 Hello everyone Firstly, congratulations to Chris and Model Rail on these welcome announcements! In the Wishlist Polls since 2013, the Class 11 has been mainly Middle Polling with the Class 12 Low Polling. (Note that even if an item is Low Polling, it is still extremely high if one considers that the Polls could list 30,000+ items each year!) On a personal note, I will certainly be ordering a Class 12. Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, dibber25 said: Not something I can answer, but I would expect it will be a standard Heljan mechanism design and i don't know if they suit easy conversion or not. In general such considerations add to the cost (unless they are already built in to standard components and assembly methods) and with margins being very tight these days it usually doesn't make economic sense to spend a lot extra for a few extra sales. It's early days yet, anyway, so I doubt that any design work has yet been undertaken. (CJL) But it doesn't take much to make sure that such items are EM/P4 compatible. We had this with the 1600 thread. All that's required is a dimension in the spec to make sure there's sufficient clearance for EM/P4 wheels. That's all. Nothing more. I fail to see how that significantly adds to the cost of the project. I'd have thought that with margins being very tight any manufactuer would want to maximise all possible sales for what should amount to very little effort... If I can get P4 wheels in one I'll definately have 15105. If not I'll buy another Hornby 08. Justin Edited July 12, 2019 by jjnewitt Yypo 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, dibber25 said: Not something I can answer, but I would expect it will be a standard Heljan mechanism design and i don't know if they suit easy conversion or not. In general such considerations add to the cost (unless they are already built in to standard components and assembly methods) and with margins being very tight these days it usually doesn't make economic sense to spend a lot extra for a few extra sales. It's early days yet, anyway, so I doubt that any design work has yet been undertaken. (CJL) Thanks for that. I wouldn't like to predict what Heljan will do, the Bachmann 08 is suitable for EM/P4 but due (I think) to the nature of the conversions the loco is out of the loading gauge at the platform level. It's difficult to design an outside frame chassis for RTR that's to scale and suitable for EM/P4; pity. It might be worth noting that the LMS shunters were wider than the BR ones across the platform Regards Edited July 12, 2019 by PenrithBeacon Additional paragraph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 23 minutes ago, lapford34102 said: Just to update this, not sure where Wiki got the info but four, 15230 - 15233, were A/B'd. 15231 was the errant 3 link equipped one. Hopefully Heljan won't need reminding that the Class 12's had additional pairs of marker lights front and rear. Stu They are fully aware, the article does state- "We will include key differences- Bulleid 'Boxpok' wheels and the extra lamp iron/marker lights - but please be aware that limitations to the tooling may mean that it's not possible to include some smaller detain differences (also applicable to the Western Region machines)". 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2019 6 hours ago, lapford34102 said: Just to update this, not sure where Wiki got the info but four, 15230 - 15233, were A/B'd. 15231 was the errant 3 link equipped one. Hopefully Heljan won't need reminding that the Class 12's had additional pairs of marker lights front and rear. Stu Hi Stu Did they have a air-brake cabinet like an 08? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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