Upgrading to a new SSD drive

[Torper]

I have a PC running Windows7 64-bit. It has two hard drives, a Seagate 500Mb SATA3, and a WD 500Mb SATA3. Each of these drives has three partitions, with the Seagate having the boot drive C plus D and E. In general terms I have plenty of space, but the C drive is nearly full and I want to enlarge it. I have considered merely enlarging the C partition (there’s plenty of space on D and E) but apart from being quite worried about doing that in case everything goes bottoms up I think that the best way forward is to get an SSD drive which will hopefully have the additional advantage of considerably speeding up my PC's rather slow booting time.

 

As I see it there are two ways of doing this. First is to buy a 250Gb SSD drive and clone the C boot drive onto it (I assume I won't have to clone the whole Seagate HDD). Then plug the new SSD drive into the SATA socket used by the old Seagate drive, and plug the Seagate into one of the remaining five SATA sockets as a storage drive. But in that event, what happens to the old C drive on the Seagate? Will the computer not try to boot from that? Or will it be automatically renamed? I will obviously get rid of it once all is working.

 

Alternatively, I could buy a 500Gb SSD and clone the whole Seagate drive onto it. That would in many ways be simpler, and would presumably give me faster access to the largely music and photographs I have on D and E. But I’ll still be left with too small a C drive, and will have to reorganise the partitions which is what I want to try to avoid.  Or would cloning software, eg Macrium Reflect Free, allow me to organise the partition sizes on the new SSD before cloning the old Seagate onto it?

 

I'm probably seeing problems where none exist, but any help and advice would be much appreciated before I actually buy anything!

 

DT

[Damo666]

Which drive do you install your software to? If you install your software to another drive (Partition) then you would need to be careful making any changes.

 

If your software is to remain in the same relative position, would you consider getting a 254GB SSD, cloning the C drive over, then replacing the 500GB HDD for a 1TB HDD. That's what I have on my laptop.

 

'C' drive is purely for OS (other stuff sneaks onto it though). The HDD is then partitioned into 'D' for work files, 'E' for software installations and 'F' for personal files. I avoid the Microsoft insistence of saving everything the way they think I should work (My Documents, My Pictures, My Downloads etc all on the 'C' drive).

 

Many different ways, my way may not suit you though.

[Vistisen]

I would buy one large disk and create partitions on it.  SSD prices are falling all the time. Although the fact that you are running Windows 7 indicates that the PC is not  likely to be using the latest hardware, So do check that the drives interface is support by your motherboard, ( and Windows 7 drivers). If it was my PC ,I would install a fresh version of the O, even if you want to stick with Windows 7. Windows systems tend to get slower over the year because of all the junk that gets installed om them. Slow boot times are often improved by SSD disks, but even more so by not starting programmes that you do not need.  See my PCs start menu, all deactivated bare one at that was an error now corrected. I start the programs when I need them, not because Adobe feels that I need to check if there is a new version of acrobat every five minute!

Edited June 18, 2019 by Vistisen

[Torper]

1 hour ago, Damo666 said:

Which drive do you install your software to? If you install your software to another drive (Partition) then you would need to be careful making any changes.

 

Yes, I'm a bit worried about that.  Initially most software was installed on the C drive as the default, with any data produced by it going onto one of the other drives.  Then as my C drive began to look a bit full I tried installing software on one of the other drives - E drive, for example, is largely for work, so work related software went onto it, D drive is for music and photography, so related software went onto it, F is for Games, and so on.  That's why I'm anxious that all my drives retain their names - D, E, F, etc - as I assume tnat if the C drive is a clone, the rest should work with it.

 

I really would love to do a fresh install of the OS, but I find it really daunting to then have to reinstall so many of my programmes, etc - I don't know if I've still got the installation details for some of them.  As for my motherboard and the drive's interface, Crucial can scan your system and tell you which of its products are compatible with your motherboard.  I've done that and it seems OK.  I should add that I'm very happy with Windows 7 and my computer is very stable, so I have no intention of upgrading to 10.

 

DT

Edited June 18, 2019 by Torper

[Roy Langridge]

1 hour ago, Damo666 said:

 I avoid the Microsoft insistence of saving everything the way they think I should work (My Documents, My Pictures, My Downloads etc all on the 'C' drive).

 

 

With Windows 10 there is no insistence - yes the default will be the C drive, but in Settings, System, Storage you can just tell it to use somewhere else for user data and apps.

 

I tool have partitioned, OS, Apps and User files separately and using the above makes it very easy.

Roy

[Damo666]

27 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

With Windows 10 there is no insistence - yes the default will be the C drive, but in Settings, System, Storage you can just tell it to use somewhere else for user data and apps.

 

I tool have partitioned, OS, Apps and User files separately and using the above makes it very easy.

Roy

Hi Roy,

 

You are indeed correct, I phrased my sentence wrong. Perhaps I should have said Microsoft's preferences, or defaults, instead of insistence. A lot of people just accept the default set-up but, like you, I too have changed it to the way I work.

 

37 minutes ago, Torper said:

I should add that I'm very happy with Windows 7 and my computer is very stable, so I have no intention of upgrading to 10.

 

I'm also happy with Win7. Not broken so not fixing it.

[Vistisen]

It's been years sine I used it as 90% of my work on computers is with virtual servers and disks that can be resized on the fly. But in the old days ( windows 7)  I used partition magic that can resize partitions including system drives with losing data. https://www.easeus.com/partition-master/free-download-partition-magic-full-version.html

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by Vistisen
spelling

[Roy Langridge]

3 minutes ago, Vistisen said:

It's been years sine I used it as 90% of my work on computers is with virtual servers and disks that can be resized on the fly. But in the old days ( windows 7)  I used partition magic that can resize partitions including system drives with losing data. https://www.easeus.com/partition-master/free-download-partition-magic-full-version.html

 

 

I have used that and Acronis Disk Director (https://www.acronis.com/en-us/personal/disk-manager/) - both very good.

 

Roy

[Roy Langridge]

6 minutes ago, Damo666 said:

Hi Roy,

 

You are indeed correct, I phrased my sentence wrong. Perhaps I should have said Microsoft's preferences, or defaults, instead of insistence. A lot of people just accept the default set-up but, like you, I too have changed it to the way I work.

 

 

I'm also happy with Win7. Not broken so not fixing it.

 

Don't forget though, Windows 7 is end of life next year (January 14), beyond that there are no updates.

Roy

[Nick C]

You should be able to clone the existing drive onto the new disc - all you need to do then is to tell the BIOS which disc to boot from - it won't care that there are two, it'll just ignore the other one.

 

Having said that, I too would suggest using a fresh install, as Windows does build up a lot of cruft over time, and a clean install every so often does tend to make things run faster. I'd go through all the software you use, and make a list, then install Windows on the new drive (therefore keeping the old one intact should anything go wrong...), boot into it and run updates,  then install everything from your list - some things you'll probably want newer versions of anyway.

 

I'd also agree with the other posters about trying Windows 10 - it had some bad publicity to start with, but I've been using it at work for about 18 months now and it's settled down fine - just remember to turn off all the 'phone-home' options. As Roy says, Win7 is EOL in January, and no security updates means you're more vulnerable to nasties (so while, as you say, it's not broken now, it will be in six months time). Our IT department are requiring all remaining Win7 machines to be upgraded or replaced in the next few months because of that. You can always keep the existing Win7 install for the time being.

[Vistisen]

2 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Don't forget though, Windows 7 is end of life next year (January 14), beyond that there are no updates.

Roy

Interesting blog here  https://www.soltechit.co.uk/windows-7-is-a-major-security-risk  about why WIndows 7 is more unsafe for both the user and everyone else. Surprise it's not Windows 7 itself that is inherently unsafe. If the only other choice was Windows 8 I would also still be using Windows 7. Windows 10 is actually very good a lot of things, even though it is incredible annoying in other areas. In terms of hardware, I don't think that is is slower than the old Windows7. It's certainly quicker to boot up ( because it cheats and does not really shut down, it does a hybrid hibernate (https://lifehacker.com/shutting-down-windows-10-doesnt-actually-shut-down-wind-1825532376) I have been running it since an early beta version on an 15 year old laptop  which proudly stated 'certified for Windows XP'.  It runs fine...with an SSD.

 

If you buy a new hard disk you could install it and try windows 10 without risking anything, use it for a couple of days and then decide whether to keep it or wipe and re-install Windows 7.

[Torper]

1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Don't forget though, Windows 7 is end of life next year (January 14), beyond that there are no updates.

 

There aren't very many updates as it is - new Windows Defender updates every day or so, but precious little else save the monthly security and malicious software removal tool updates.  Meanwhile I'll continue to have my Eset Internet Security suite and Malwarebytes Premium, neither of which are ending support and have kept me pretty safe so far.  I think I'll see how it goes after January.

 

As for trying Windows 10 to see if I like it, I missed the initial free upgrade and I note that a new Windows Home licence retails at about £120 (from Microsoft) although there seem to be a large number of places that claim to sell it for about £15..........

 

DT

Edited June 18, 2019 by Torper

[MPR]

1 hour ago, Torper said:

 

..as for trying Windows 10 to see if I like it, I missed the initial free upgrade and I note that a new Windows Home licence retails at about £120 (from Microsoft) although there seem to be a large number of places that claim to sell it for about £15..........

 

DT

 

See

https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-you-can-still-get-a-free-windows-10-upgrade/

 

it may not be too late.

[Roy Langridge]

1 hour ago, Torper said:

 

There aren't very many updates as it is - new Windows Defender updates every day or so, but precious little else save the monthly security and malicious software removal tool updates.  Meanwhile I'll continue to have my Eset Internet Security suite and Malwarebytes Premium, neither of which are ending support and have kept me pretty safe so far.  I think I'll see how it goes after January.

 

 

But that is the point, there will be no security updates and no matter what anti-virus you use on top of the operating system, you will be at risk. I work in an industry that is very reticent to upgrade and has been mainly using Windows 7 for years - pretty much every body is now going to Windows 10 in advance of January because of these risks.

 

Roy

[RFS]

2 hours ago, Torper said:

 

As for trying Windows 10 to see if I like it, I missed the initial free upgrade and I note that a new Windows Home licence retails at about £120 (from Microsoft) although there seem to be a large number of places that claim to sell it for about £15..........

 

DT

 

It's still a free upgrade so long as you have a valid Windows 7 or 8 licence.  You should be able to just go here and select "update now". All that MS stopped doing is offering the update via Windows Update. 

Edited June 18, 2019 by RFS

[Torper]

Thanks everyone, you've given me lots to think about.  I think I shall proceed as follows:

1. Try to download Windows 10 as suggested by MPR and RFS above.  If that works

2. Check out all the programmes on my computer that I actually use and ensure that I have the installation files, disks and keys to hand and

3. Buy and install a 500Gb SSD and divide it into two partitions of equal size.

4. Remove the current two HDDs from my PC and replace them with the SSD.  Install Windows 10 from a USB stick (currently on order) onto partition C.

5.  Once that is installed, then proceed to load all my programmes onto new partitioned disk D in the hope and expectation they will work.

6.  If that goes well, put my old HDDs back as data storage disks.

7.  If it doesn't, format the SSD. clone old disk C onto it, and continue with Windows 7.

 

DT

[SRman]

That sounds like a sensible plan, Torper.

 

I have done something similar twice with the laptop I am typing this on, albeit I started with a small SSD divided into two partitions (OS and Data).

Macrium Reflect is good, but I have used EaseUS products (also free versions) to clone the drives. The OS has worked straight off after each cloning operation. The Easeus products have a facility to optimise for SSDs when going from a mechanical drive to an SSD, and also allow for resizing of the drive upwards or downwards, within the constraints of the amount of data on the drive (it cannot make the target partition smaller than the total of the data on the original, of course).

In my case, the laptop started with a 256GB SSD which I knew would not be sufficient for my needs, so was upgraded to a 500GB SSD fairly early on. Just before Christmas, I treated myself to a 1TB SSD as I was running out of storage for all the videos and photos. 

I also have two older desktop computers (one of these in my train room), both of which have had SSDs added with the OS cloned onto them using the EaseUS software. In both cases, the old mechanical drives are still in them acting as data storage, including full backups for the laptop. All are using Windows 10 now, but the train room computer can also optionally boot into Windows XP and Windows 2000. In the train room computer's case, the SSD was the oldest and smallest one I cascaded from the laptop as originally fitted (this also required an adaptor for the SATA to NVME interface (easily obtained from eBay or computer stores). My wife's laptop received the 500GB one displaced from the laptop before Christmas, again with her OS cloned from her old mechanical drive. The SSD had to use an adapter in her case.

One other thing: for the best results, I found it was best to clone the disks/SSDs outside of the computers they were intended for using USB to SATA adapters.

Edited June 19, 2019 by SRman

[Torper]

I'm pleased to say that thanks to the advice I've received on this thread I duly downloaded Windows10 and installed it, free of charge, on my new SSD using my Windows7 key as recommended.  I was a bit surprised that it worked, but it did!  I'm now busy reinstalling my old programmes, most (all?) of which seem to work fine on Windows10 - but there again, people say that if they work on 7, they'll work on 10.  Only real problem I've had is that a couple of the programmes are so old that their installation keys are no longer recognised, but so far I've always found a way round that.  I suspect I may have trouble with one or two of my old games (I only have old games, new ones are usually far too complicated).

 

Once again, thanks to everyone who has helped on this - it's saved me money, time and angst, as well as making up my mind for me to upgrade, which otherwise I wouldn't have done until the last minute, if at all!

 

DT

[Nick C]

I usually find that any program that is too old to install has usually been superseded by something better anyway - often an open-source one that is free to download as well.

 

Quite a few old games have been re-released as open-source as well, it's always worth a look - such as OpenTTD, which started off simply trying to make the old Transport Tycoon available, and has since moved on to improving it.

[Reorte]

On 18/06/2019 at 15:25, Roy Langridge said:

 

With Windows 10 there is no insistence - yes the default will be the C drive, but in Settings, System, Storage you can just tell it to use somewhere else for user data and apps.

 

I tool have partitioned, OS, Apps and User files separately and using the above makes it very easy.

You can? I gave up trying to move my user directory away from C! Did I miss something that obvious or was it changed to be easier to move in an update?

[Reorte]

On 18/06/2019 at 16:17, Vistisen said:

Interesting blog here  https://www.soltechit.co.uk/windows-7-is-a-major-security-risk  about why WIndows 7 is more unsafe for both the user and everyone else. Surprise it's not Windows 7 itself that is inherently unsafe.

 

What that boiled down to was an assumption that because you're using Windows 7 you're using an older browser and email software (and more reasonably an older version of Windows Defender). That may be true for email but I'd hazard a guess that most Windows 7 users are using the latest browsers. Internet Explorer may be behind on the security front compared with Edge but how many people use it?

Edited June 28, 2019 by Reorte