For those interested in "Modern Classic" Cars

[monkeysarefun]

When life was simpler... this is the opening paragraph of a review of the 1974 Falcon XB GT in 'Wheels' magazine of the time:

 

EVEN ON THE VERY LAST mile of a 1200 mile test of the new Falcon XB GT we took great delight in  flashing the headlights with the car's new steering column stalk.

The astonishment that, here at last, was an all-Australian car with such a desirable device had gone, but the pleasure of knowing it was at finger tips distance from the steering wheel remained.

Now Ford Australia has shown the lead hopefully we can expect GMH, Chrysler and Leyland to follow suit.

European and Japanese manufacturers probably think it's crazy to make such a big deal of what is, in engineering terms, really just a minor change, but for an Australian car it is a major breakthrough and should lead to stalk operation for not only headlight dipping/flashing and horn operation (as on the Falcons) but also for the wipers and washers.

 

We might have the last laugh over those Japanese and European manufacturers though. GT XB hardtops now fetch up to $250,000   and beyond for a good one, off the top of my head  I can't think of many 1974 Japanese or European cars that cost $6000 here worth even a tenth of that...

Edited July 16, 2021 by monkeysarefun

[Metr0Land]

A modern classic (to me) that flies under the radar is the version of Mondeo they stopped making in 2007 (mine is 1.8L manual).  My faithful servant is being traded in this Thursday.  My late wife and I bought her early 2007 when she was 10 months old and she's lasted twice as long as any car  in my ownership.  With 182k miles on the clock she still feels like a 40-50k mileage car.  Original clutch, exhaust and shock absorbers.  Treat her right and she goes on forever.  Only once failed the MoT and that was on a tyre with a cut in it.  Unsurprisingly the dealer said any of these traded in now has similar high mileage.  She should do 200k easily and am starting to think she'll do 250k.  Only big frustration is she leaks on rear offside door when it rains and after 4 years I just CANNOT find why.  Replacement will be mild hybrid Ford Kuga.  I live in west Wales, it's hilly, no charging points, and local electricians have no experience installing home chargers (I believe layout at home is problematical) so there's no way I'm going electric this time round.

 

[spamcan61]

4 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

A modern classic (to me) that flies under the radar is the version of Mondeo they stopped making in 2007 (mine is 1.8L manual).  My faithful servant is being traded in this Thursday.  My late wife and I bought her early 2007 when she was 10 months old and she's lasted twice as long as any car  in my ownership.  With 182k miles on the clock she still feels like a 40-50k mileage car.  Original clutch, exhaust and shock absorbers.  Treat her right and she goes on forever.  Only once failed the MoT and that was on a tyre with a cut in it.  Unsurprisingly the dealer said any of these traded in now has similar high mileage.  She should do 200k easily and am starting to think she'll do 250k.  Only big frustration is she leaks on rear offside door when it rains and after 4 years I just CANNOT find why.  Replacement will be mild hybrid Ford Kuga.  I live in west Wales, it's hilly, no charging points, and local electricians have no experience installing home chargers (I believe layout at home is problematical) so there's no way I'm going electric this time round.

 

Always thought this was the best looking version of Mondeo, especially the estate.

[big jim]

31 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Always thought this was the best looking version of Mondeo, especially the estate.

I had an 06 estate with LPG fitted, gave £400 for it, never let me down once in the 9 months I had it travelling back and forth to moor st 

 

one if the drivers in work has a couple of the ST220 versions of the hatchback, in blue of course

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by big jim

[monkeysarefun]

We had a couple of early mondeos here but Ford started reimporting them in earnest with the 2007 model as a mid sized alternative to the Falcon, even though it's not much smaller size wise. It's small engine size (2.5 5 cylinder was the max they came in here) compared to the   big 6 or V8 of the Falcon kept it off many people's radar especially as a tow car  but I got a 2007 2 litre tdci, that I've clocked up over  445000km,  (275000 miles) in now and I just can't kill it even after 14 years on mainly NSW back roads, including hundreds of km of corrugated dirt roads.

 

The only issue I've had in all that time is the rear passenger door window just dropped down one day, the parts cost was about $300 so it's held up with a bit of 4 by 2 jammed  inside the door shell.

 

Made in Belgium apparently, the only complaint is its puny airconditioning which struggles in any day above 38 degrees but other than that it's handled everything country Australia can throw at it, even has a slight  crease in the front passenger door where a roo struck it a glancing blow before hopping back into the scrub.

 

A brilliant car, it still gives me a rock solid  5.2litres / 100km

 or  about 45mpg, meaning I get around 1300km between refills which is the equivalent of Sydney to melbourne and half way back again.

 

In comparison my 6 litre ute with a tank 3 litres larger does 415km if I drive it  like a little old lady.

Edited July 27, 2021 by monkeysarefun

[russ p]

I had what I would term as a mk2 mondeo as a company car

Didn't really get very interested in it but was a decent car and went well

I've got a hire car this week some hideous corsa to start with but had a issue with it only revving to 2k and painfully slow so took it back and I've been given something the size of a small house , Crossland or something,  got the same horrible non turbo 3 cylinder engine. 

How on earth are these engines suitable for sale they are so unrefined and sound and behave like a 4 pot with a lead off 

I'm dreading driving back will be so slow 

Next time I hire a car will stipulate no vauxhall,  Peugeot or Citroën,  not sure if that is the same engine as Renault use in that captur thing . I would rather be captured and tortured than own one of those 

[MJI]

The 3 cylinder VX engine is pretty naff, does sound like a V6 with slipped cam on one bank.

 

There does seem to be a trend for tiny little engines these days

[russ p]

18 minutes ago, MJI said:

The 3 cylinder VX engine is pretty naff, does sound like a V6 with slipped cam on one bank.

 

There does seem to be a trend for tiny little engines these days

Is that a Peugeot engine? 

What would the road testers of the 80s have made of it , without doubt the worst engine I've ever come across 

[MJI]

I think it was ecotec but small and too few cylinders

[Dunsignalling]

10 hours ago, russ p said:

Is that a Peugeot engine? 

What would the road testers of the 80s have made of it , without doubt the worst engine I've ever come across 

Probably, now that Vauxhall is part of PSA group. AIUI the current Corsa is basically a Peugeot 208.

 

You just had the misfortune to get one with the one litre 3-pot. I had a 107 or 108 loan car a while back and was surprised how coarse the engine was compared to the little Fiesta motor. Went surprisingly well if you could stand the tortured noises it made when having its neck wrung.

 

The 208 is quite a nice car with a decent (bigger) motor in it and handles a lot better than my 207 of not-terribly-fond memory; much more like my 206 of much fonder recollection. 

 

Incidentally, I saw one of the new-style Vauxhall Mokkas the other day. That appears to be a thinly disguised Citroen C4 Cactus.

 

John

Edited July 28, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[MJI]

Big fall from the heydays of the V cars

[Dunsignalling]

5 minutes ago, MJI said:

Big fall from the heydays of the V cars

1920s?

[MJI]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

1920s?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_V_platform_(1966)

[monkeysarefun]

 

Big fall from the heydays of the V cars

 

We went it alone post 2007 with the V series  to produce the VE Commodore which was a step up in suspension design, then the Zeta series which spawned the VF Commodore and variants. Both models are brilliant cars, no 1 litre 3 cylinders allowed.

 

Theres a 1990 V series Commodore  up for auction here at the moment, it'll end up going for a fair  bit more than what they cost new...

 

A 1990 Holden HSV VN SS Group A Commodore has been listed for auction, with high hopes of attracting a record-breaking price.

 

The value of Australian-built performance cars has skyrocketed in recent years. The sellers of this Bathurst V8 special believe it could send records tumbling once again.

 

The Australian-built four-door sedan has had two owners since new who, between them, put 36,000km on the clock. It is unknown if the car was driven primarily on the road or a racetrack.

Stamped #002, the vehicle is one of just 302 ever built. Group A motorsport regulations at the time required 500 road-going examples to be produced for homologation, however, Holden was given an exemption for the 1991 and 1992 seasons.

A 5.0-litre V8 petrol engine sends 215kW/411Nm to the rear wheels via a six-speed manual transmission, allowing the benchmark 0-100km/h sprint to be completed in a claimed 6.5 seconds on the way to a top speed of 259km/h.

 

“We auctioned the same model back in April, which broke an Australian World Record price [the vehicle was passed in at $450,000, and private agreement was settled post auction with the highest bidder] ... we believe this one being build 002 might just break it again based on the amount of enquiries we have had already,” said Lee Hames, the Chief Operating Officer at Lloyds Auctions.

“This iconic car is a timepiece in Australian motor sporting history, and serious enthusiasts will need to be verified prior to bidding due to the important significance of this car,” Mr Hames added.

Lloyds Auctions is facilitating the sale. At the time of publishing, the highest bid registered at $306,000.

[monkeysarefun]

 

I didnt want to say it twice!

Edited July 28, 2021 by monkeysarefun

[Classsix T]

1 hour ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

We went it alone post 2007 with the V series  to produce the VE Commodore which was a step up in suspension design, then the Zeta series which spawned the VF Commodore and variants. Both models are brilliant cars, no 1 litre 3 cylinders allowed.

 

Theres a 1990 V series Commodore  up for auction here at the moment, it'll end up going for a fair  bit more than what they cost new...

 

A 1990 Holden HSV VN SS Group A Commodore has been listed for auction, with high hopes of attracting a record-breaking price.

 

The value of Australian-built performance cars has skyrocketed in recent years. The sellers of this Bathurst V8 special believe it could send records tumbling once again.

 

The Australian-built four-door sedan has had two owners since new who, between them, put 36,000km on the clock. It is unknown if the car was driven primarily on the road or a racetrack.

Stamped #002, the vehicle is one of just 302 ever built. Group A motorsport regulations at the time required 500 road-going examples to be produced for homologation, however, Holden was given an exemption for the 1991 and 1992 seasons.

A 5.0-litre V8 petrol engine sends 215kW/411Nm to the rear wheels via a six-speed manual transmission, allowing the benchmark 0-100km/h sprint to be completed in a claimed 6.5 seconds on the way to a top speed of 259km/h.

 

“We auctioned the same model back in April, which broke an Australian World Record price [the vehicle was passed in at $450,000, and private agreement was settled post auction with the highest bidder] ... we believe this one being build 002 might just break it again based on the amount of enquiries we have had already,” said Lee Hames, the Chief Operating Officer at Lloyds Auctions.

“This iconic car is a timepiece in Australian motor sporting history, and serious enthusiasts will need to be verified prior to bidding due to the important significance of this car,” Mr Hames added.

Lloyds Auctions is facilitating the sale. At the time of publishing, the highest bid registered at $306,000.

I'd be interested to know Chris if bids on Auzzie muscle cars in recent times have been purely domestic or are coming from other right-hand drive nations? Is that info available?

 

C6T. 

[monkeysarefun]

1 hour ago, Classsix T said:

I'd be interested to know Chris if bids on Auzzie muscle cars in recent times have been purely domestic or are coming from other right-hand drive nations? Is that info available?

 

C6T. 

 

 

Maybe NZ, and apparently Indonesia of all places has a bunch of cult followers!

 

The interest here seems to be mainly from those who grew up with these cars, blokes (and sheilas!)  now in their 50s and 60s who maybe wanted one back in the day or had one but sold it when family came along. Now all cashed up they are bidding up the prices the same way  they are doing to beachfront retirement homes..

 

To be honest I can't see anyone who doesnt  have an emotional attachment to them seeing the 6 figure value in them, here they far outprice more  'exotic' European models of a similar age which have  always had a "rich w*nker "  image in comparison to the home grown  muscle cars. Plus reliability and part prices are chalk and cheese.

 

That said, there is an Aussie Ford appreciation group in the UK - their website is very trainspotty in comparison most fanclubs here, which proved very useful to me as I am currently doing CAD models of some of these cars to produce 3D printed  00 scale models and needed details like original wheel designs etc. 

 

http://www.aus-ford-uk.co.uk/

 

which includes a pretty nice Mad Max Interceptor replica living in Scotland of all places.

Edited July 28, 2021 by monkeysarefun

[MJI]

14 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

We went it alone post 2007 with the V series  to produce the VE Commodore which was a step up in suspension design, then the Zeta series which spawned the VF Commodore and variants. Both models are brilliant cars, no 1 litre 3 cylinders allowed.

 

Theres a 1990 V series Commodore  up for auction here at the moment, it'll end up going for a fair  bit more than what they cost new...

 

A 1990 Holden HSV VN SS Group A Commodore has been listed for auction, with high hopes of attracting a record-breaking price.

 

The value of Australian-built performance cars has skyrocketed in recent years. The sellers of this Bathurst V8 special believe it could send records tumbling once again.

 

The Australian-built four-door sedan has had two owners since new who, between them, put 36,000km on the clock. It is unknown if the car was driven primarily on the road or a racetrack.

Stamped #002, the vehicle is one of just 302 ever built. Group A motorsport regulations at the time required 500 road-going examples to be produced for homologation, however, Holden was given an exemption for the 1991 and 1992 seasons.

A 5.0-litre V8 petrol engine sends 215kW/411Nm to the rear wheels via a six-speed manual transmission, allowing the benchmark 0-100km/h sprint to be completed in a claimed 6.5 seconds on the way to a top speed of 259km/h.

 

“We auctioned the same model back in April, which broke an Australian World Record price [the vehicle was passed in at $450,000, and private agreement was settled post auction with the highest bidder] ... we believe this one being build 002 might just break it again based on the amount of enquiries we have had already,” said Lee Hames, the Chief Operating Officer at Lloyds Auctions.

“This iconic car is a timepiece in Australian motor sporting history, and serious enthusiasts will need to be verified prior to bidding due to the important significance of this car,” Mr Hames added.

Lloyds Auctions is facilitating the sale. At the time of publishing, the highest bid registered at $306,000.

 

 

You can see the family likeness with Carlton and Senator.

 

Only faster one is the 3.6l turbo.

[37114]

On 27/07/2021 at 14:43, Metr0Land said:

A modern classic (to me) that flies under the radar is the version of Mondeo they stopped making in 2007 (mine is 1.8L manual).  My faithful servant is being traded in this Thursday.  My late wife and I bought her early 2007 when she was 10 months old and she's lasted twice as long as any car  in my ownership.  With 182k miles on the clock she still feels like a 40-50k mileage car.  Original clutch, exhaust and shock absorbers.  Treat her right and she goes on forever.  Only once failed the MoT and that was on a tyre with a cut in it.  Unsurprisingly the dealer said any of these traded in now has similar high mileage.  She should do 200k easily and am starting to think she'll do 250k.  Only big frustration is she leaks on rear offside door when it rains and after 4 years I just CANNOT find why.  Replacement will be mild hybrid Ford Kuga.  I live in west Wales, it's hilly, no charging points, and local electricians have no experience installing home chargers (I believe layout at home is problematical) so there's no way I'm going electric this time round.

 

I am on Mondeo no 5, having had 1 mk 3 like yours which I bought of my Dad when 3 years old, was a good motor (2.0TDCI). The Mk4 that I had from new as a company car is still on the road 310k miles later. The Mk 5 that replaced it is still going with 200k on the clock, while the current MK5 is barely run in at 55k. Shame Ford are discontinuing the Mondeo, hoping I can get one of the last one to see me through to 2026 before I switch to something else.

[monkeysarefun]

 

12 hours ago, MJI said:

 

 

You can see the family likeness with Carlton and Senator.

 

Only faster one is the 3.6l turbo.

 

 

You've reminded me of the 1986 VL Commodore which came with a 3.0 Nissan 6 because the local 6 at the time could not be easily converted for unleaded fuel.

 

They added a Garret turbo charger, so their range included both a 5 litre V8 and the 6 turbo.

 

Secondhand models were beloved by the street racing community and the VL turbo became notorious here in the same way as say the XR2 did there if the Toy Dolls song is true to life. Consequently I dont think that there is a single one left in existence...

 

We had a similar strange partnership when the Commodore was sold for a whie as a Toyota under the name Lexcen, named after the bloke who designed the Australia 2 , the boat that won the 1983 Americas Cup.

 

It was assumed it would be a winner since it would have the popularity of the Commodore with the perceived reliability of a Toyota, but turned out Holden people didnt buy it because it wasnt a Holden, and Toyota people didnt buy it because it was a Holden.

2 hours ago, 37114 said:

I am on Mondeo no 5, having had 1 mk 3 like yours which I bought of my Dad when 3 years old, was a good motor (2.0TDCI). The Mk4 that I had from new as a company car is still on the road 310k miles later. The Mk 5 that replaced it is still going with 200k on the clock, while the current MK5 is barely run in at 55k. Shame Ford are discontinuing the Mondeo, hoping I can get one of the last one to see me through to 2026 before I switch to something else.

Ford dropped the Mondeo here a couple of years ago, leaving their true 'car' range as just the Focus and the Mustang.

 

If you want any other sized car you have to get a SUV.

 

Ignoring the Mustang which is everywhere here,  I cant see any future classics amongst their range, I dont know what the youngsters of today will get all dewy eyed over.

 

Maybe they are all like my son, he just wants something that turns on when you press the button, and that bluetooths to his phone.

 

Everything else is of no interest to him.

[Classsix T]

13 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

Maybe they are all like my son, he just wants something that turns on when you press the button, and that bluetooths to his phone.

 

Everything else is of no interest to him.

My initial thought was "ouch", but I think it is kinda transition that this generation do not place value on that which the previous did.

 

I detest the fact our species has been technology led by the desire to kill others. But conversely military hardware fascinates me. Perhaps with the end of the Cold War proper they are right and us old fogies should put away out multi cylindered ICE and embrace new tech.

 

But then, anyone who's heard Deltics on full-bore won't let that go. And even though they aren't allowed to fly, I'll never forget the EE Lightning runway thrash at Bruntingthorpe.

 

C6T. 

[Hobby]

8 hours ago, Classsix T said:

But then, anyone who's heard Deltics on full-bore won't let that go. And even though they aren't allowed to fly, I'll never forget the EE Lightning runway thrash at Bruntingthorpe.

 

Auto Union V16 beats them every day... Dresden technical museum have a set of headphones that have the sound of one recorded at full bore, David had to come and drag me away from them, the sound was lovely!

[MJI]

9 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

 

 

You've reminded me of the 1986 VL Commodore which came with a 3.0 Nissan 6 because the local 6 at the time could not be easily converted for unleaded fuel.

 

They added a Garret turbo charger, so their range included both a 5 litre V8 and the 6 turbo.

 

Secondhand models were beloved by the street racing community and the VL turbo became notorious here in the same way as say the XR2 did there if the Toy Dolls song is true to life. Consequently I dont think that there is a single one left in existence...

 

We had a similar strange partnership when the Commodore was sold for a whie as a Toyota under the name Lexcen, named after the bloke who designed the Australia 2 , the boat that won the 1983 Americas Cup.

 

It was assumed it would be a winner since it would have the popularity of the Commodore with the perceived reliability of a Toyota, but turned out Holden people didnt buy it because it wasnt a Holden, and Toyota people didnt buy it because it was a Holden.

Ford dropped the Mondeo here a couple of years ago, leaving their true 'car' range as just the Focus and the Mustang.

 

If you want any other sized car you have to get a SUV.

 

Ignoring the Mustang which is everywhere here,  I cant see any future classics amongst their range, I dont know what the youngsters of today will get all dewy eyed over.

 

Maybe they are all like my son, he just wants something that turns on when you press the button, and that bluetooths to his phone.

 

Everything else is of no interest to him.

 

I am definitely of the opinion that the V Car family were the best of the GM cars. They were Austrailias super saloons. Germanys Autobahn Stormers, UKs Police cars.

 

Big comfy saloons with decent handling and a wide range of engines. Also some versions were bonkers, such as the Lotus Carlton.

[boxbrownie]

42 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

Auto Union V16 beats them every day... Dresden technical museum have a set of headphones that have the sound of one recorded at full bore, David had to come and drag me away from them, the sound was lovely!

I would still be in favour of the Lightening, I was at Biggin Hill the last time it did a sound barrier break during a public show, must have been in the mid to late sixties…..never forget the complete silence as this little dot approached followed by just a huge explosion and ear shattering jet noise after….pure pleasure….eh? What was that you said? 

[MJI]

Great sounding things I have heard

 

Deltics of course

Lancaster

Vulcan at 97%

Double headed 50s leaving Plymouth through a cutting.