For those interested in "Modern Classic" Cars

[monkeysarefun]

The fun went out of GM here when Holden killed off the Commodore V8, the writing was on the wall at that point, everyone had gone insane and preferred buying Korean SUV's "because they are safer"  "If you crash into someone you won't get as hurt"and "you can see over other cars" - now that everyone has one the last two reasons have been negated and the first reason is just rubbish anyway. 

No fun, bland motoring in boxy looking  yet no-boot-space  whitegoods vehicles seems to be the thing these days, I don't see any aftermarket performance kits for this  current crop of family 'cars',  unlike the Commodore V8 where for instance if you have say a lazy 25 grand you can get a Walkinshaw supercharger package bolted on that'll up your humble family cars output to 670HP (738 if you've got the later 6,2L).

[jjb1970]

For a while we got a big V8 Holden coupe here,the Vauxhall Monaro, it had real presence and was lauded as a terrific fun car but it never managed to make inroads into Mercedes AMG, BMW M cars etc despite offering a lot of car for less. The problem here for cars like that is that most new cars are financed through PCP or lease schemes and actual purchase price is less important than monthly price.  Strong residual values and finance arrangements mean that it is not uncommon for premium models to be competitive with ostensibly much cheaper cars.

[MJI]

6 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

The only GM Europe cars I ever really liked were the Opel Monza and Mantra coupes, although the 1990's Opel (and Vauxhall) Omega was a nice car, if a bit pricey. The other one I liked was the Ampera badge version of the Chevrolet Volt we got.

 

I ran a Carlton for 5 years then 4 Omegas longest 8 years.

 

Ran big Vauxhalls for about 20 years.

[MJI]

Just found out today what it is like to drive a 4x4 with no effective anti roll bars.

 

Had a big bang on way to work and a lot of noise, snapped drop link.

 

Every corner the roll bar was banging as it moved.

 

Unplugged the relay to disable them.

 

On way home like a boat.

 

It was horrible.

 

Back is on air so is quite soft anyway, and with relay pulled the ARBs are in locked mode, usable when both are connected properly but the fluid from front ram was going to rear ram so no roll control at all.

 

Gone from a fully active system to no system until Wednesday.

[boxbrownie]

Nasty sounds disturbing, what vehicle?

[MJI]

2 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Nasty sounds disturbing, what vehicle?

 

Land Rover Discovery 2

 

It is not pleasant, OK on the straight but my commute is very twisty. When working well it corners very well for something with excellent off road ability.

 

However there is a garage on the commute so booked in for tomorrow.

 

 

[45568]

QUOTE:

The fun went out of GM here when Holden killed off the Commodore V8, the writing was on the wall at that point, everyone had gone insane and preferred buying Korean SUV's "because they are safer"  "If you crash into someone you won't get as hurt"and "you can see over other cars" - now that everyone has one the last two reasons have been negated and the first reason is just rubbish anyway. 

No fun, bland motoring in boxy looking  yet no-boot-space  whitegoods vehicles seems to be the thing these days

 

How true this is! I honestly do not understand the appeal of the so-called SUV, (precious few if any are 'sports' by my understanding of the term), yet it is becoming difficult to buy any car/sedan at a reasonable price that is a little different or sportier. I do wonder if the move to this type of vehicle is sex-related, (quiet at the back...!), to my eyes the majority of drivers now seem to be women, with hubby in the passenger seat as madam propels 'the SUV' around like a suburban panzer, kids in the back looking green. The Simpsons caught this perfectly!

 

 Last couple of visits to the UK I was given an SUV, despite asking for a compact sedan. The result was that we could not leave suitcases in the car whilst parked as there was nowhere to put them out of sight, and, as monkeys says, storage space was woeful! The Renault example was quite brisk when driven with vigour, but the Fiat example seemed underpowered with gear ratios selected at random.

 

 Here in the West, Perth must be the Toyota capital of the world, with all that implies..bland boring vehicles styled with Pokemon character looks, and driven sat in by people who have no real idea of driving, or interest in, road skills, forming a mobile road block by travelling at 5-25 km/hour below the speed limit regardless of road type or condition. It is a breath of fresh air to drive in the UK, or even other Australian states when visiting!

Ah well, spleen vented, I'm going back to the 'old cars' thread, I'm more comfortable there!

Cheers from West Oz, the land of the slow white Toyota!

Peter C.

[jjb1970]

I am not such an enthusiast of sportiness in general unless it is a sports car or coupe. There was a period when it seemed to be the fashion to fit saloon cars with "sport" suspension which actually meant stiff and uncomfortable suspension. Some car manufacturers could actually do sharp handling suspension without abandoning comfort altogether ( such as BMW, Ford and Jaguar) but most couldn't and cars just ended up being far far too harsh riding and still weren't especially good in handling (hello Audi.......). Weight is crucial to handling if you want to retain some degree of comfort, small lightweight low slung sports cars can be provided with very sharp handling and still be comfortable, it is a lot harder in a big saloon let alone an SUV.

And how many cars are taken on track days or driven in environments where sharp handling is really relevant? Most UK drivers probably fall into wanting either comfortable motorway cruisers, urban run abouts or country dwellers needing B road work horses. I think Lexus got it right by opting out of the saloon car as wannabe Nurburgring sports car race and instead going for comfort and refinement.

On Korean cars, KIA and Hyundai are making some nice looking cars which are very good to drive. And I hear few complaints about their quality, they seem to have occupied the space once dominated by Japanese manufacturers in providing well made, well engineered cars majoring on value and pain free ownership. 

[MJI]

18 hours ago, 45568 said:

QUOTE:

The fun went out of GM here when Holden killed off the Commodore V8, the writing was on the wall at that point, everyone had gone insane and preferred buying Korean SUV's "because they are safer"  "If you crash into someone you won't get as hurt"and "you can see over other cars" - now that everyone has one the last two reasons have been negated and the first reason is just rubbish anyway. 

No fun, bland motoring in boxy looking  yet no-boot-space  whitegoods vehicles seems to be the thing these days

 

How true this is! I honestly do not understand the appeal of the so-called SUV, (precious few if any are 'sports' by my understanding of the term), yet it is becoming difficult to buy any car/sedan at a reasonable price that is a little different or sportier. I do wonder if the move to this type of vehicle is sex-related, (quiet at the back...!), to my eyes the majority of drivers now seem to be women, with hubby in the passenger seat as madam propels 'the SUV' around like a suburban panzer, kids in the back looking green. The Simpsons caught this perfectly!

 

 Last couple of visits to the UK I was given an SUV, despite asking for a compact sedan. The result was that we could not leave suitcases in the car whilst parked as there was nowhere to put them out of sight, and, as monkeys says, storage space was woeful! The Renault example was quite brisk when driven with vigour, but the Fiat example seemed underpowered with gear ratios selected at random.

 

 Here in the West, Perth must be the Toyota capital of the world, with all that implies..bland boring vehicles styled with Pokemon character looks, and driven sat in by people who have no real idea of driving, or interest in, road skills, forming a mobile road block by travelling at 5-25 km/hour below the speed limit regardless of road type or condition. It is a breath of fresh air to drive in the UK, or even other Australian states when visiting!

Ah well, spleen vented, I'm going back to the 'old cars' thread, I'm more comfortable there!

Cheers from West Oz, the land of the slow white Toyota!

Peter C.

 

 

I like SUVs for a number of reasons.

 

1) High up seating position

2) Permanent 4WD

3) Great in snow

4) Can take me along RUPPs and BOATs

5) Generally longer lasting than ordinary cars. (even if need lots of preventative maintenance)

6) My commute can flood (rain flood not flowing water flood).

7) My route home if road closed the alternate road is one of the BOATs

8) Spares are readily available

9) Light and airy

10) Mine has a curry hook.

 

Mine is a nice vehicle to travel in, comfy and pleasant. Even handles well for something on live axles.

[MJI]

90 quid as it is 60 quid per hour

 

They had trouble removing the broekn drop link it seems.

 

Not cheap but I didn't have to get wet and cold as my garage is too small to fit a car.

[Chris M]

Reasons for not having an SUV

1. I like a low, sleek machine.

2. I like cars that go round bends without leaning. My friends who drive SUVs go pale and hold tight to the seat if I corner with even moderate enthusiasm.

3. I like cars that can change lane quickly and safely on a motorway without wobbling.

4. I get better fuel economy and performance from a lighter vehicle with less wind drag.

5.My last car did 90,000 miles and the only spare I needed was a light bulb so whats all this about spare parts? Too early to say with my current one as it has only done circa 20k.

6. I have never felt the urge to take my car down a BOAT or RUPP - I use my ebike for such routes and hope I don't find any SUVs spoiling my ride.

7. It hardly ever snows in England and if it does you get stuck in a queue with loads of other cars regardless of what you are driving. I have heard that SUVs aren't great at stopping in snow because of their weight.

8. I'm not a great follower of fashion!

 

But its a free world and each to their own

[big jim]

I’ve bought a ‘new’ SUV last night as our current one, the Nissan Murano at 230k miles finally has lost it’s newness!

 

it’s got to a point where I’ve had enough of throwing money at it every month, it needs 2 new tyres, the engine management light is on due to one of the catalitic converters playing up and the ABS light is lit as the sensor ring is damaged, not too much wrong with it and if I got those bits sorted and kept the fluids topped up it would soldier on for another 100k miles easily but after 5 years I’ve decided it’s time for a change so I’ve ended up buying a VW Touareg for a couple of grand off eBay, again not a new one, 2005 plate with 180k on the clock, 2.5 diesel with a superchip bluefin fitted, other than that bog standard

 

hopefully it will be more economical than the 3.5 V6 petrol lump in the Murano, obviously won’t be as quick off the mark but as it’s for my wife she won’t be bothered by performance, all I know is she likes her 4x4/suv cars as she feels safe in them, I hope she likes it anyway coz I’ve not told her I’ve bought it yet and the first she will know is when I arrive back home in it from work on Saturday morning (I’ve bought the car from Newbury so am collecting it tomorrow and leaving it in oxford for when I finish work there on Saturday) 

 

 

The Murano is up on eBay for £750 spares or repair, my mechanic Who has done the work on it for the last 4 years said he will give me £500 for it as he likes it and fancies a ‘toy’ so if it doesn’t go on eBay it’s got a home

[Hobby]

9 hours ago, MJI said:

2) Permanent 4WD

 

Not all of them are...

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Chris M said:

Reasons for not having an SUV

1. I like a low, sleek machine.

2. I like cars that go round bends without leaning. My friends who drive SUVs go pale and hold tight to the seat if I corner with even moderate enthusiasm.

3. I like cars that can change lane quickly and safely on a motorway without wobbling.

4. I get better fuel economy and performance from a lighter vehicle with less wind drag.

5.My last car did 90,000 miles and the only spare I needed was a light bulb so whats all this about spare parts? Too early to say with my current one as it has only done circa 20k.

6. I have never felt the urge to take my car down a BOAT or RUPP - I use my ebike for such routes and hope I don't find any SUVs spoiling my ride.

7. It hardly ever snows in England and if it does you get stuck in a queue with loads of other cars regardless of what you are driving. I have heard that SUVs aren't great at stopping in snow because of their weight.

8. I'm not a great follower of fashion!

 

But its a free world and each to their own

 

Reasons for having an SUV

1. Both of us have mobility issues and the ingress/egress with a saloon/low car is painful/damaging. 

[Hobby]

12 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Reasons for having an SUV

1. Both of us have mobility issues and the ingress/egress with a saloon/low car is painful/damaging. 

 

Reasons for not having an SUV:

1. My wife has mobility issues and cannot transfer from her wheelchair (or when stood up) into and out of such high step vehicles without major issues...

 

[jjb1970]

Some SUVs handle pretty well, admittedly these tend to be the road based crossover type rather than offroaders. The Jaguar I Pace is such a crossover and arguably the best all round car on sale. The problem for many of them is because of weight and a high of g the suspension becomes excessively stiff to control roll and give good handling. The ones set up for easy cruising as opposed to sharp handling can be very pleasant. 

[boxbrownie]

16 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

Reasons for not having an SUV:

1. My wife has mobility issues and cannot transfer from her wheelchair (or when stood up) into and out of such high step vehicles without major issues...

 

I understand, but have you tried one of the smaller SUV type, we had a Q3 a few years ago and getting in and out was very easy for my wife as the vehicle is not at all “tall” like the normal Range Rover type, we have an i3 now and the H point is exactly the same height as the batteries are under the floor and it results in the interior being that much higher than normal saloon cars, we find transferring my 92 year old mum who is a wheelchair user very easy with the Q3 and the i3, she’d never get into our old RR though, even our present Freelander is too tall for that.

 

It comes down to people need a car that suits them and their needs, and sod the rest 

[MJI]

3 hours ago, Chris M said:

Reasons for not having an SUV

1. I like a low, sleek machine.

2. I like cars that go round bends without leaning. My friends who drive SUVs go pale and hold tight to the seat if I corner with even moderate enthusiasm.

3. I like cars that can change lane quickly and safely on a motorway without wobbling.

4. I get better fuel economy and performance from a lighter vehicle with less wind drag.

5.My last car did 90,000 miles and the only spare I needed was a light bulb so whats all this about spare parts? Too early to say with my current one as it has only done circa 20k.

6. I have never felt the urge to take my car down a BOAT or RUPP - I use my ebike for such routes and hope I don't find any SUVs spoiling my ride.

7. It hardly ever snows in England and if it does you get stuck in a queue with loads of other cars regardless of what you are driving. I have heard that SUVs aren't great at stopping in snow because of their weight.

8. I'm not a great follower of fashion!

 

But its a free world and each to their own

 

1) I struggle to get in them.

2) Mine doesn't lean, the ARBs lock on corners and disconnect on the rough.

3) No problem there.

5) 130,000 16 years old and still nice.

6) I like the freedom of exploring the countryside.

7) But when it does.

8) It is not a fashion

[MJI]

2 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

Not all of them are...

 

I forgot about the series with part time.

[boxbrownie]

19 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

Some SUVs handle pretty well, admittedly these tend to be the road based crossover type rather than offroaders. The Jaguar I Pace is such a crossover and arguably the best all round car on sale. The problem for many of them is because of weight and a high of g the suspension becomes excessively stiff to control roll and give good handling. The ones set up for easy cruising as opposed to sharp handling can be very pleasant. 

Not so fast on the iPace there.....Our daughter has one and last time she was here at Christmas we went out for a meal and getting into the passenger seat it was so low I twisted my knee getting in and ruptured my bakers cyst in my left knee, it’s still not healed.

The iPace is a lovely car but it is low, even compared to our i3

[MJI]

Actually car fashion is wrecking tyres choice, I have found that the proper tyres are not being made as most large pretend tall car buyers want road only tyres.

 

I used to like Avon Rangers, NLA.

[boxbrownie]

2 minutes ago, MJI said:

Actually car fashion is wrecking tyres choice, I have found that the proper tyres are not being made as most large pretend tall car buyers want road only tyres.

 

I used to like Avon Rangers, NLA.

There is still plenty of very decent off road rubber around, and in the correct sizes not super wide like the fashion is on the “performance” SUVs.

 

We have Michelin Latitude Cross on the FL2, very good on road but with enough tread for use on the farm and rough tracks, if I needed better for mud and crap then Wranglers are up there with the best.

[Chris M]

Why on earth are there so many tyre sizes? I'm sure there is no need and it causes unnecessary problems. For instance my daughter had a puncture on her new style Peugeot 3008. The tyre was a right off but I couldn't get the size from any tyre fitters. I phoned Peugeot who just said tough, we don't have any that size either. In the end my local independent tyre depot managed to get one sent over from Belgium. At the time this tyre size had not been made available in the UK even though it was being fitted to cars sold here . Why on earth couldn't Peugeot fit a more standard size tyre? Other derivatives of the same car have different sizes. 

[boxbrownie]

20 minutes ago, Chris M said:

Why on earth are there so many tyre sizes? I'm sure there is no need and it causes unnecessary problems. For instance my daughter had a puncture on her new style Peugeot 3008. The tyre was a right off but I couldn't get the size from any tyre fitters. I phoned Peugeot who just said tough, we don't have any that size either. In the end my local independent tyre depot managed to get one sent over from Belgium. At the time this tyre size had not been made available in the UK even though it was being fitted to cars sold here . Why on earth couldn't Peugeot fit a more standard size tyre? Other derivatives of the same car have different sizes. 

I expect you’d have found it was a “normal” size but the exact tyre type/make wasn’t available on the replacement market at that time, this often happens on new release cars........you should have tried to get a spare tyre for a BMW i3 after they came out.....one type, one manufacturer ONLY......situations better now but still Bridgestone are the only approved (and decent) supplier. 

[monkeysarefun]

I think modern SUV's have made us all soft. Theres very little todays computer controlled everything SUV can do that a 1954 Holden FX couldn't at least have a try at back in the day.