Rules of thumb for LMS carriage formations

[Lacathedrale]

I've got two prototypes that I have any remote chance of taking forward to any kind of finished state - the SE&CR (East London Railway) and pre-war LMS. I have carriage books for both of these, the former is very helpful with giving specific coach set details and then how the sets were allocated to different services -but the latter is something of a mystery.

 

I picked up Passenger Train Formations 1923-1983 LMS-LM Region on recommendation from here and it does indeed show many formations through the decades of my interest, but I can't seem to find any rhyme or reason to them other than that  more often than not, a BT or BC would braket a given rake. The use of open or corridor stock seems absolutely arbitrary, as does the location of thrd vs composite vs location of restaurant or sleepers!

 

I'm sure there must be some logic to this, beyond the obvious examples where trains have been made up en route and so have brakes sandwiched in the middle, etc.!

Edited May 15, 2019 by Lacathedrale

[Barry O]

There is a bit more information written in LMS coaches by Jenkinson and Essery. There was a bit of reasoning behind trains ..and especially ones like The Lakes Express which carried various portions which left the main train and were then pulled to other destinations (BTK/CK (or CO)/ BTK (or BTO)) being a 3 car portion add another third for extra seats.

 

Up to World War II the LMS went on a "build open carriages route". After WWII they turned back to compartment stock. They did have specific sets but seem to add at will. The WTTs show coaches by the seats required by coach type..which makes it far more interesting for some of us who build kits!

Baz

[Lacathedrale]

Interesting and thanks for that recommendation, I'll check it out next.

 

It seems for Brake vehicles, there was a predominance of BTK's, and BCK's. For dedicated passenger stock, corridor coaches vastly outnumbered open coaches, but the largest single denomination was the Third Open followed by CK and TK's - everything else constituted less than 4% the total LMS stock.  Similarly, everything else (Restaurants, Sleepers, etc.) also made up less than 5%.

 

That is to say, if one had twenty LMS-built coaches in their collection, if that were a reflection of the total stock (instead of a given train) they would have five brakes (four BTK's and a BCK), five TO's, five TK's, three CK's and two of the any of the remaining score of coach types. This is only account for LMS built coaches however, which only numbered around eight thousand from 1923 to nationalisation, as opposed to the twenty six thousand inherited from the pre group companies, more than half from the LNWR.

 

Quite how that LNWR stock integrated is something I should dig into deeper - lots of brake vans and some whole secondary trains, it seems!

[Joseph_Pestell]

There was a good series published on the subject of LMS train formations/operating diagrams. I have the one for the Midland Division. Will look for  it later and post ISBN reference.

 

Most (all?) timetabled trains were formed of a standard set that was pre-allocated with extra coaches added as traffic demanded. There would also be relief trains at particularly busy times and excursions.

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

Apart from the Coronation Scot and some suburban sets the LMS never ran fixed sets.

 

They were made up according to need and whatever was available. Whether the carriage was LNWR, CR or a brand new Stanier was of no consequence. If it was the correct type it was in.

 

 

Jason