Shops with no facility to accept cash or cards

[stewartingram]

34 minutes ago, Porkscratching said:

Northern common sense still alive then I'm glad to see, in that you can get on a bus and pay in coinage!

I don't / won't do contactless, and its,to me, absurd using cards or whatever for payments of pennies, folk buying a bar of chocolate with a credit card, to my (clearly outdated!) thinking. that's bonkers..

Pedantic point:

 

There are 2 types of personal bank cards - credit card such as Barclaycard, which is a form of bankloan on which you pay interest, and debit card, which is equivalent to paying cash (with no interest). Contactless should work with either, but tbh I've nevr used the credit card that way. I actually find contactless normally quicker than cash.

The 3rd way of course is Oyster (and other names elsewhere) It does have benefits moneywise if you look at the t&c's, and it also has drawbacks too, but for normal use is a very good system. I had one free when I was a contractor on the Underground; Like all my necessary passes for the job, and mainline rail tickets etc, they were (and still are) in a separate card holder in my right hand pocket for easy access at gatelines.

 

Big advantage I saw with cards over cash was security. If I had a wallet with (say) £50 in it, and I lost it (or had it stolen), it was gone, forever. If I lost a card, and I do check for it frequently, I would report it stolen, and transactions then made (or attempted) and the bank refunds the money. And twice I had cards scanned & used, the bank informed me and paid it back. I then carried the wallet in a lined pouch for security.

 

Stewart

[melmerby]

10 hours ago, Porkscratching said:

Sorry but i preferred it when you could just think.." I'll jump on this bus", you got on , paid your fare, job done...now I would have to have x amount of money (basically an enforced loan to them from me) pre-loaded onto an oyster card, on the off chance I might decide to get a bus...

They've obviously got a whole team of sleazy little con artists, in an office somewhere, dreaming up these schemes, to then be forced on us...

Wrong.

You can used a debit/credit card with contactless.

[Porkscratching]

I'm sure you can do all manner of wonders and run your life with these cards, if that floats your boat, ...my point simply being, I would rather just hand over the cash, job done.

Obviously as an old bloke my attitude is going to differ from yours, the world is going in a given direction, very much against what my instinct tells me is good...but nowt I can do about it realistically, other than pass comment....

[big jim]

And I bet you keep your savings under the mattress too (or down into the curtain linings!) 

 

i must admit a few a few years back I thought it odd to use a card to pay for ‘trivial’ items for a few quid but now days I do it regularly (partly because the new style notes tend to slip out of pockets easily or stick to other items such as your phone when you take it out of your pocket and are easy to drop or lose)

 

would it also blow your mind if I said I can pay for stuff with my wrist watch with a single tap, an old woman in a charity shop in mid wales nearly wouldn’t let me pay that way once as she was convinced I was trying to scam her! 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, south_tyne said:

 

 

 

Unfortunately, because of deregulation and privatisation we don't have a joined-up transport system in the North East, so don't have any kind of fully integrated Oyster system. The proposed implementation of QCS by Nexus would have allowed this but it was vetoed by the private operators. 

 

I'd agree with that.

For a large Metropolitan area the mapping is abysmal, even with less than co-operative operators a decent bus map of the system could be produced but still AFAIK isn't.

 

You need the power of a "Transport for ...." to implement county wide proposals as London has done for years and the West Midlands is now doing.

 

Eventually there will be a common branding for buses, trains & trams in the West Midlands. There are already some buses in one area where two operators buses have the same "West Midlands Buses" livery and common ticketing with only the operators branding being different.

There is already a county wide bus ticket system usable on all routes (as well  as individual operators fare structures) and a Swift card which is a top up "tap & go" card like London's Oyster.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by melmerby

[Porkscratching]

3 minutes ago, big jim said:

And I bet you keep your savings under the mattress too (or down into the curtain linings!) 

 

Damn right.!

Still never mind, us old folks won't last much longer, then you lot can have brave new world to yerselves..enjoy...

[south_tyne]

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

I'd agree with that.

For a large Metropolitan area the mapping is abysmal, even with less than co-operative operators a decent bus map of the system could be produced but still AFAIK isn't.

 

You need the power of a "Transport for ...." to implement county wide proposals as London has done for years and the West Midlands is now doing.

 

Eventually there will be a common branding for buses, trains & trams in the West Midlands. There are already some buses in one area where two operators buses have the same "West Midlands Buses" livery and common ticketing with only the operators branding being different.

There is already a county wide bus ticket system usable on all routes (as well  as individual operators fare structures) and a Swift card which is a top up "tap & go" card like London's Oyster.

 

 

 

Spot on. One of the initial goals for our part of the world was to have an elected mayour with powers over transport, like Andy Burnham in Greater Manchester; in effect 'Transport for the North East' covering the five Tyne and Wear authorities, Durham and Northumberland. However, the local authorities couldn't agree amongst themselves and unfortunately the North of Tyne has since gone off on its own, but their elected mayor has no powers over transport. 

 

When Nexus was proposing the QCS arrangements, it did get quite a way down the line (I was involved in it in my professional life), but it ultimately fell down when Stagecoach said they would pull out of the region completely, with Go North East and Arriva also being very concerned. The Metro is again operated by Nexus, having been brought back 'in house' after a few years of being operated by DB. Upshot is it is a fractured system. It evidently used to work so much better before 1986......... 

 

I travel from Jarrow to Morpeth for work, using the Metro and then bus. There is no single ticket or pass to cover both modes, so I need a monthly Metro pass and a weekly bus ticket; it's pretty ridiculous. We do have the POP card, which includes an Oyster style top-up arrangement, but it doesn't cover all modes. We've got an antiquated, unreliable light rail system, creaking at the seems, and three major bus operators all being very insular. Ultimately, it's somewhat of a shambles and I am sure it puts people off using public transport. Only strange people like me will persist.....

 

That's really interesting about the West Midlands. So are the branded buses still owned by the operators, or is their public sector involvement? 

[njee20]

As has been said, anywhere you can use Oyster you can use contactless. So any arguments about needing to “loan” TfL money or keep it topped up are moot. Buses are a flat fare. Tube is calculated at the end of the day based on the number of journeys you make. 

[big jim]

I keep my Oyster card handy as when we visit london with the kids I can turn it into a young visitor oyster for 1/2 price travel for the eldest (the youngest travels free), I just top it up at the start of the visit at a ticket machine 

 

I however use contactless debit card when travelling in london, as mentioned above it caps at a certain amount equivalent to a zone ranger day ticket dependent on which zones you have visited and how many trains/tube you have travelled on 

 

I have had it miscalculate once and I got an email to say I was due a refund of about £2.30 but to get it I had to tap my card on a reader on ticket machine, all well and good if I lived in london but being in Cheshire it’s not so easy!

 

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by big jim

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 10 May 2019 at 13:25, Reorte said:

If you say "because it's more convenient" for example that only matters if you happen to like that convenience. If you don't just happen to find the convenience more desirable it's a meaningless justification. All the reasoning is a means to a subjective end, never an end itself (there's no point otherwise). If you don't recognise that you end up falling into a trap of trying to claim other peoples' values are objectively wrong when they don't align with yours.

I am more than happy to accept others don't like not paying with cash, but will never understand, when there is an easier, more efficient, secure way of doing so, why nobody would want that as their preferred method of payment.

 

I can't think of anyone, or anything that people would prefer the less convenient way for the pure hell of it.  So far, I haven't read any reasonable reason why someone would prefer cash for general purchases (say, from the supermarket).  The odd posts previous give off a "stuck in my ways" sort of feel when I read them.

It's fine being stuck in your ways, but no need to complain when people don't understand why people choose to purposefully do something in an inefficient manner.

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 09 May 2019 at 01:14, chris p bacon said:

The builder gives you an invoice for £1000 and after fees he will receive approx £950* and will wait for 28 days for payment as you haven't purchased goods but received a 'service'  so  why should he take a Credit card unless you're willing to cover the costs within the quoted amount for a job.

I'd be happy to pay an extra £50 if it means I can spread the payment, yes.   But then all those small companies at trade shows (BBC Good Food / Gardeners World), or model railway shows, hell even small charities take card.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Sir TophamHatt

[chris p bacon]

6 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

I'd be happy to pay an extra £50 if it means I can spread the payment, yes.

 

 

 

 

But then all those small companies at trade shows (BBC Good Food / Gardeners World), or model railway shows, hell even small charities take card.

 

 

 

 

 

There is a big difference between companies that make multiple daily transactions and are an attractive proposition for banks, and builders, who by the nature of the works undertaken may only be billing every few weeks.

 

My wife works for a charity and they get cheaper banks rates and charges than businesses.   Societies are run as 'charity' accounts which are usually part of Business banking, and are either excluded from charges or on reduced rates.    

 

There is no real guideline for charges. A society I am involved with can pay in cheques for free but is charged for a BACS transfer. When enquiring about taking card payments the charges involved averaged £50 a month. Looking at another provider for cheaper card services would incur a charge for payments received from the card service provider. Which ever way you looked at it the bank wanted a cut.

[Fat Controller]

On 11/05/2019 at 18:47, south_tyne said:

 

Spot on. One of the initial goals for our part of the world was to have an elected mayour with powers over transport, like Andy Burnham in Greater Manchester; in effect 'Transport for the North East' covering the five Tyne and Wear authorities, Durham and Northumberland. However, the local authorities couldn't agree amongst themselves and unfortunately the North of Tyne has since gone off on its own, but their elected mayor has no powers over transport. 

 

When Nexus was proposing the QCS arrangements, it did get quite a way down the line (I was involved in it in my professional life), but it ultimately fell down when Stagecoach said they would pull out of the region completely, with Go North East and Arriva also being very concerned. The Metro is again operated by Nexus, having been brought back 'in house' after a few years of being operated by DB. Upshot is it is a fractured system. It evidently used to work so much better before 1986......... 

 

I travel from Jarrow to Morpeth for work, using the Metro and then bus. There is no single ticket or pass to cover both modes, so I need a monthly Metro pass and a weekly bus ticket; it's pretty ridiculous. We do have the POP card, which includes an Oyster style top-up arrangement, but it doesn't cover all modes. We've got an antiquated, unreliable light rail system, creaking at the seems, and three major bus operators all being very insular. Ultimately, it's somewhat of a shambles and I am sure it puts people off using public transport. Only strange people like me will persist.....

 

That's really interesting about the West Midlands. So are the branded buses still owned by the operators, or is their public sector involvement? 

We moved to Tyneside whilst it was still run as an integrated system, back in the early 1980s. I could travel on a single ticket from Clara Vale to work in Low Fell, using bus, Metro (to cross the river, then bus again). Then TBW decided that the buses would do better with 'competition'. Result: I, like many others, started using the car..

[south_tyne]

10 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

We moved to Tyneside whilst it was still run as an integrated system, back in the early 1980s. I could travel on a single ticket from Clara Vale to work in Low Fell, using bus, Metro (to cross the river, then bus again). Then TBW decided that the buses would do better with 'competition'. Result: I, like many others, started using the car..

 

It is no wonder that people make that decision though, given how complicated and difficult it is. Similarly to you, we used to live up at Springwell Village and when it was fully integrated it was dead easy to get the bus down to Heworth or Gateshead interchange and then jump on the metro. Now it's more complicated, being in the hands of the private operators. My daily commute is complex and long but I do persist, as I like to use public transport for a variety of reasons. However, I know I am not the 'norm' and most people will, very rightly, use the car because it is far easier. 

 

The only way to make public transport more attractive is to make it accessible - that means value for money, clean, and comfortable and, very importantly,  by making the interchange when doing a  multi-modal journeys as easy as possible. Unfortunately we don't have that up here. TheDr is investment in public transport infrastructure in 'the north' but it is focused on Manchester and Leeds and the transpennine corridor. It is understandable why that is, as that is where the bulk or the passengers and ridership is, but it does leave us as somewhat out on a limb in the North East. 

 

[melmerby]

33 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

We moved to Tyneside whilst it was still run as an integrated system, back in the early 1980s. I could travel on a single ticket from Clara Vale to work in Low Fell, using bus, Metro (to cross the river, then bus again). Then TBW decided that the buses would do better with 'competition'. Result: I, like many others, started using the car..

Back in the day some Newcastle City tram routes went into Gateshead and likewise some Gateshead routes went into Newcastle.

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

I am more than happy to accept others don't like not paying with cash, but will never understand, when there is an easier, more efficient, secure way of doing so, why nobody would want that as their preferred method of payment.

 

I can't think of anyone, or anything that people would prefer the less convenient way for the pure hell of it.  So far, I haven't read any reasonable reason why someone would prefer cash for general purchases (say, from the supermarket).  The odd posts previous give off a "stuck in my ways" sort of feel when I read them.

It's fine being stuck in your ways, but no need to complain when people don't understand why people choose to purposefully do something in an inefficient manner.

 

You like convenience, others like what you call being stuck in their ways. There is no absolute reason why one is more rational than the other. Personally I find the convenience in these things so insignificant that it doesn't even register, because I have no issue with using cash that bothers me in the slightest.

 

"A reasonable reason" - they've given them. What you're asking for is a reason that fits the criteria that you've decided based on what you personally happen to prefer and like. You admit you don't understand their position, so how can you also reject what is reasonable to those people? A rational, reasonable explanation is any one that works towards whatever you happen to prefer. Unless you understand (which is certainly not the same as agree with) then you've got no grounds whatsoever for saying or implying that they're wrong, unreasonable, irrational etc.

 

edit to add: I moved house a few years ago. There were no other changes in my circumstances (so it was entirely by choice). By any measure of convenience it's less - smaller, further from work, deliveries can never find the place etc. I'm not saving any money (not entirely true to be honest, since I bought this instead of renting, but right now the mortgage payments are very similar to the rent). So have I purposefully done something in an inefficient manner that you'd question, even though I'm rather happier because I like the house more than where I was living before? (although I still need to figure out making the cellar useable for a layout)

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Reorte

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Fat Controller said:

We moved to Tyneside whilst it was still run as an integrated system, back in the early 1980s. I could travel on a single ticket from Clara Vale to work in Low Fell, using bus, Metro (to cross the river, then bus again). Then TBW decided that the buses would do better with 'competition'. Result: I, like many others, started using the car..

Another thing I have noted with Newcastle is that the Big 3 operators (Arriva, Stagecoach & Go-Ahead) even have buses of the same route number in Newcastle City Centre but completely different routes. Seems even like less like co-operation more like just being difficult.

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

Slightly off topic.

 

When did they stop automatically giving you a receipt for things you've bought?

 

If you have no receipt how do you take something back if its faulty?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[njee20]

With your card/bank statement, it's up to them to prove that's not the correct purchase (and I've never been challenged). I'm happy not to get receipts.

Edited May 13, 2019 by njee20

[PaulCheffus]

Just now, njee20 said:

With your card/bank statement, it's up to them to prove that's not the correct purchase (and I've never been challenged). I'm happy not to get receipts.

Hi

 

Thats ok if you've paid using either of those but I have paid cash and been asked the same question.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[njee20]

Maybe you should use a card, then you're covered ;-)

 

Given I'll wager 99.9% of receipts go straight in the bin I'm all for people asking if I want one (or want one emailed if it's a big purchase). I don't need 12" of paper from the supermarket for my sandwich. If you want one, then either answer in the affirmative if asked, or make sure you ask for one. Not sure I see an issue, or were you just commenting that things have changed?

 

 

[PaulCheffus]

1 minute ago, njee20 said:

Maybe you should use a card, then you're covered ;-)

 

Given I'll wager 99.9% of receipts go straight in the bin I'm all for people asking if I want one (or want one emailed if it's a big purchase). I don't need 12" of paper from the supermarket for my sandwich. If you want one, then either answer in the affirmative if asked, or make sure you ask for one. Not sure I see an issue, or were you just commenting that things have changed?

 

 

Hi

 

I always get one but thought it strange how in the last few months it has become more common not to get one automatically.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[njee20]

Like I say, not sure it is strange, just different, and better.

[Pete the Elaner]

On 05/05/2019 at 12:02, jjb1970 said:

 

When I asked a member of staff (interestingly there was no shortage of staff) where to pay all they did was point to a poster telling customers all they had to do was have an app, a Nectar card and Apple pay, at which point I put my bottle of juice back and left. I suspect the poor chap was fed up of customers asking the same thing, and it was only 7.30 in the morning. 

I would not have put it back.

As a statement, I would have put it on the floor & walked out. If I had a full basket then that would be even better.

 

I am completely against putting unwanted items back on the wrong shelf & it annoys me to see others do it, especially when I see chilled or frozen goods on a normal shelf.

But if the company wants to dick customers around by not accepting normal payment, then they can pay their staff to put the items back again.

[njee20]

They're trialling something in a single, tiny store in Central London. I'm not sure it's really "dicking their customers around".