Julia Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019  I would like to add a silberlingen push/pull set to my collection. I'm modelling German Epoch III.  My current thought is a rake of 3 Piko silberlingen coaches and a V100. Is a rake of 3 prototypical? Or did they usually run in longer formations?  What do people think of the quality of the Piko coaches? Is there a better quality model available?  Thanks  J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CloggyDog Posted April 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 1, 2019 27 minutes ago, Julia said:  I would like to add a silberlingen push/pull set to my collection. I'm modelling German Epoch III.  My current thought is a rake of 3 Piko silberlingen coaches and a V100. Is a rake of 3 prototypical? Or did they usually run in longer formations?  What do people think of the quality of the Piko coaches? Is there a better quality model available?  Thanks  J  Lok + 2/3 is prototypical, I travelled on a number of DB trains so formed in the early/mid-1990s.    Can't help you on the Piko front I'm afraid (being a DR modeller) but AFAIK the Piko one is the correct scale length.  1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcanman Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Cannot comment on Piko but Lima produced some nicely detailed, scale length Silberlingen coaches, including a driving trailer. Â Not sure if they are still in production but can possibly be found on ebay. Â Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted April 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 1, 2019 Piko are pretty good...their latest offerings are scale length. If you're feeling rich, there's also the Brawa version.  https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Brawa/5-4-001012-312811-0-0-0-3-3-2-0-gatt-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Claude_Dreyfus said: Piko are pretty good...their latest offerings are scale length. If you're feeling rich, there's also the Brawa version.  https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Brawa/5-4-001012-312811-0-0-0-3-3-2-0-gatt-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html   OOOOh, that is pretty! I like!  I notice the driving cab version on the Brawa website has an interesting picture,   Can anyone identify the coach and loco behind the silberling?  Thanks  J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted April 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 1, 2019 It could be a BR64. They certainly hauled them... Â Â Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sncf231e Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 The coach are actually two close coupled coaches; so called donnerbüchsen, one second class and one first/second class. The locomotive looks like a Baureihe 78 to me. Regards Fred 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019  Thanks all,  I'm trying to understand the coach codes that are listed by Piko and Brawa.  Brawa lists: AB4N-59,B4NB-59 (x2) , BPW4NF-59, Piko lists: BD4nf, B4nb, AB4nb  What do the codes mean? Am I right in thinking if I got 1 of each, and put the three piko ones together, and the 4 Brawa ones together, I'd end up with two prototypical formations?  J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted April 2, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2019 I cannot give a detailed answer on what codes actually mean, but yes, they denote the carriage type (something akin to the British classifications FO, BSK etc.). In theory getting one of each would give you a plausible consist.  There are plenty of sites out there giving more details...the one below is good (the silberlingen listed are older Roco models)  http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=84  Also, if you don't have too much luck here, there is an English language German railway forum here.  https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/germanrailfr/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamysandy Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 I believe the train seen in the photo is a local train which ran in the Hamburg Area.The two green coaches were known as umbau ( rebuilt) wagon being new bodies fitted to Prussian 6 wheel chassis.Some were still in use in Koln in 1976! The train as shown features in Eisenbahn Kurier DVD 8249,Verkehrsknoten Hamburg and the loco was a class78 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted April 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2019 11 hours ago, Julia said:  Thanks all,  I'm trying to understand the coach codes that are listed by Piko and Brawa.  Brawa lists: AB4N-59,B4NB-59 (x2) , BPW4NF-59, Piko lists: BD4nf, B4nb, AB4nb  What do the codes mean? Am I right in thinking if I got 1 of each, and put the three piko ones together, and the 4 Brawa ones together, I'd end up with two prototypical formations?  J  The A, B, D, etc is a UIC classification (i.e. Europe wide). I don't recognise the other classifications , so they are probably DB/DR before the UIC came into force.  A - 1st class, B - 2nd class, C - 3rd class, D - baggage brake. The number is the number of compartments/seating bays.  So a brake second with 4 compartments is a B4D. An all first is A7, A8......  An LSWR tri-compo with it's brake compartment would be fun: A2B2C3D.  The UIC system also gets difficult with coupe compartments and couchettes which can involve numbers expressed as fractions.  And finally, another quirk, motorail vehicles are counted as baggage brakes and numbered in the D series. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted April 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2019 11 hours ago, sncf231e said: The coach are actually two close coupled coaches; so called donnerbüchsen, one second class and one first/second class. The locomotive looks like a Baureihe 78 to me. Regards Fred  I agree that it's a 78, one of my favourite locos - but then I have a liking for big tank locos.  But I think the "thunder box" nickname only applies to the 4w variant which certainly lived up to that epithet. The 6w version was quite civilised. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted April 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2019 11 hours ago, Julia said:  OOOOh, that is pretty! I like!  I notice the driving cab version on the Brawa website has an interesting picture,   Can anyone identify the coach and loco behind the silberling?  Thanks  J  Would that be a shunt move? I have never seen a service train in that format and I don't think the 6w rebuilds were push-pull fitted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamysandy Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Steamysandy said: I believe the train seen in the photo is a local train which ran in the Hamburg Area.The two green coaches were known as umbau ( rebuilt) wagon being new bodies fitted to Prussian 6 wheel chassis.Some were still in use in Koln in 1976! The train as shown features in Eisenbahn Kurier DVD 8249,Verkehrsknoten Hamburg and the loco was a class78 A check of the DVD reveals it ran between Bergedorf and Altmuhl till1968/9.Loco numbers appear to be 78-206 and 78-235 It was definitely push- pull operated Edited April 2, 2019 by Steamysandy Additional information 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CloggyDog Posted April 2, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2019 12 hours ago, sncf231e said: The coach are actually two close coupled coaches; so called donnerbüchsen, one second class and one first/second class. The locomotive looks like a Baureihe 78 to me. Regards Fred  Sorry, I think they are the DB Umbauwagen (rebuilt coaches), 3-axle, close coupled, not 2-axle Donnerbuschen. Lok looks like a Br78 2-C-2 (4-6-4T)  As... just noticed the question was correctly answered further down the thread... that'll teach me to scroll right down!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted April 2, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2019 A very similar set up to that train is depicted here... albeit with a BR64 leading   Linked from the first website I mentioned earlier, which gives a good selection of train consists. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyA Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 43 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:  A - 1st class, B - 2nd class, C - 3rd class, D - baggage brake. The number is the number of compartments/seating bays.  So a brake second with 4 compartments is a B4D. An all first is A7, A8......  An LSWR tri-compo with it's brake compartment would be fun: A2B2C3D.   In the original classification system, the number is actually the number of axles, the number being omitted for 2-axle vehicles. For example, the AB3yg Umbauwagen was first/second class, 3-axle with enclosed rubber connections.  Tony 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamysandy Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said: Â The A, B, D, etc is a UIC classification (i.e. Europe wide). I don't recognise the other classifications , so they are probably DB/DR before the UIC came into force. Â A - 1st class, B - 2nd class, C - 3rd class, D - baggage brake. The number is the number of compartments/seating bays. Â So a brake second with 4 compartments is a B4D. An all first is A7, A8...... Â An LSWR tri-compo with it's brake compartment would be fun: A2B2C3D. Â The UIC system also gets difficult with coupe compartments and couchettes which can involve numbers expressed as fractions. Â And finally, another quirk, motorail vehicles are counted as baggage brakes and numbered in the D series. The German system was different in that the number of compartments weren't counted but the French Railways certainly did as above Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019  Thank you everyone, lots of really useful info. Just what I needed.  Thanks  J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted April 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) The 3-axle Umbau coaches (as in the photo) were push-pull fitted; their code is B3yge. There were no driving trailers however, hence the Silberling with the older-style cab (there is a newer style of cab too). These coaches always travelled in close-coupled pairs.  The bogie Umbau coaches (Byge) were not push-pull fitted. Edited April 2, 2019 by D9020 Nimbus Add info about Byge coaches. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Madog Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Here is a link to the UIC coach classification:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIC_classification_of_railway_coaches   1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 I can recreate the train in the initial posting in O Gauge, albeit my Silberlingen are green. The train is four foot long!  Bill 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium readingtype Posted April 2, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2019 If my observations are part of a larger picture then Silberlingen in plastic at 1:87 seem occasionally to go a bit banana-shaped in the manufacturing process. I was disappointed to notice that one of the Piko ones I bought online suffered in this respect. It wouldn't be so bad if it sagged a little, but (probably to do with the way things go with the tension in the plastic moulding) it arches. I've seen this in another one of scale length -- can't remember the manufacturer. Â (I'd stay away from anything not scale length by the way, even if it was less likely to sag!) Â The window frames in the Piko ones are a bit overcooked, but otherwise the models are reasonable given where they are pegged pricewise against Roco's ones (I don't have any of those to do a visual comparison but they do look a little sharper). Shall we say the Pikos would be a good choice if you wanted to create a long train? I thought the ride height of mine was too high, and fiddled about with the bogie pivots. I'm not sure this was a great idea, and it was complicated by the sagging as the bogies are a fair way in from the ends. Moral: check for warp on delivery and if in doubt send it back! Â I wonder what Brawa have done to represent the 'peacock's eyes' -- the circular burnishings on the lower bodysides of the prototype. Different manufacturers have tried various ploys to represent these, some resembling fish scales more than anything else. I'm sure the general feel of the Brawa model will be lovely and the detailing characteristically delicate. Â Secondhand Ade Silberlingen from the 1980s are interesting but I think my advice would be to avoid unless you want to spend a lot of time fiddling about with them. Ade coaches were (as I understand) originally sold only as kits and have amongst other things an innovative and slightly maddening coupling system of their own. The details are great with lovely filigree bogies that capture the very fine parts of the prototype, but it's fairly easy even for me to point out a couple of things that aren't really right about the bodies and I have never seen such thin tyres and such deep flanges combined in a single NEM wheel as with Ade. Â I very much like the photo of the possible push-pull train (Wendezug), thanks for sharing that. I particularly like the combination of the massive Prussian T18 / BR 78 (a design dating back to 1912) with the long, sleek and evidently lightweight Silberling -- even with the rather messy details of the sides and ends, the driving trailer (Steuerwagen) is like a spaceship alongside all that cast iron and plumbing. I hope to be able to replicate it in miniature some time, and perhaps meanwhile someone can confirm whether it would have been possible to run the control connection from the Steuerwagen through to the loco via the two 6-wheelers? Â Ben 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adecoaches26point4 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) They were the early versions and can be used for push/pull services, I noted a three coach set, all in green, including a driving coach in Paderborn. Â Â Â Edited April 2, 2019 by adecoaches26point4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium readingtype Posted April 2, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, adecoaches26point4 said: They were the early versions and can be used for push/pull services, I noted a three coach set, all in green, including a driving coach in Paderborn.  Thanks! I have just found a photo that shows exactly that, in August 1968. It's on page 39 of Eisenbahn Journal Exklusiv 1-2015, Wendezüge in Deutschland, and shows exactly the same train formation with 78 246 pushing. Could be the same vehicles, though the weather is much sunnier. Perhaps earlier in the day? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now