Popular Post webbcompound Posted March 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 24, 2019 Stung by intimations of lurking and lack of relevance on other threads, and in the vain hope that the pace of modelling will somehow accelerate as a result of posting I am starting this topic to show progress on my Connah's Quay layout. Connah's Quay was the riverside terminus of the Buckley Railway, a venture set up to move coal, bricks and industrial ceramics from the collieries and brickworks of the Buckley area to a shipment point on the Dee. The line was rapidly taken over by the Wrexham, Mold and Connah's Quay Railway, and in its turn this was eventually absorbed by the Great Central, which is how the LNER came to have an outpost in North Wales. The layout is intended to represent the situation at the point of the GCR takeover in 1906 although Rule 1 applies and so there will be an amount of backward easement as far as 1904. Scale is 4mm/foot, gauge is P4 The area of the layout is the old quay, and a section of the newer quay, with the Chester to Holyhead line of the LNWR on a low embankment forming the boundary at the rear of the modelled area. So far much time has been spent juggling and slicing baseboards to produce a viable set-up in the available space. I also want to make the layout removable from its attic location in case we move house, or popular acclaim demands a public outing, neither of which seems terribly likely. So here we are. The plan is taken from a survey of the railway carried out by the GCR prior to taking over the line, currently held at the County Archive. The post apocalyptic photo is the situation so far, on the verge of actual tracklaying. 24 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted March 24, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2019 Bravo. Another pre-Grouping layout thread is always very welcome indeed. Not least when there's some modelling going on. Looks a darnsight more skillful and professional than CA already, so something to look forward to! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Harrison Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Another Great Central (or constituents thereof) layout? Excellent. That makes what?- three, four of us now? I'm looking forward to seeing this progress! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted March 24, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2019 An interesting prototype. North Wales is a sadly neglected area. Another thread to watch. Jonathan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted March 24, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2019 Not sure if you've seen the side by side maps ? https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=53.2212&lon=-3.0592&layers=168&right=BingHyb 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davegreenly Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Is the bridge under the main line the infamous one that the WM &CQ locos were too tall to pass under? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted March 24, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) Was this one that couldn't pass under? Edited November 10, 2019 by phil_sutters 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbcompound Posted March 24, 2019 Author Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) Dave, the bridge is very low, but the locos were made especially short. Phil, as in your photo (1922) No6 couldn't get under the bridge, but it has had its dome and chimney increased in size by the GCR. No6 and No8 did turns on the Buckley when No1 and No2 were unavailable. I haven't worked out how they ran the docks, but since both No6 and No8 were specially made low I'm assuming it was to allow them to get down to the quay. As an example of a specially low WM&CQR loco here is Sharp Stewart built No8 as running in WMCQR guise. Again the GCR raised all the boiler fittings and the cab when they got hold of it and the second photo shows it in that guise. No8 is quite high up my build list. Edited March 24, 2019 by webbcompound 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin S-C Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Great to see another pre-grouping project under way, and as others have said, a very unusual prototype. I shall watch with interest. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Very exciting; good luck finding info on WM&CQ goods stock though. Hobby horse droppings are plentiful in comparison. I always thought the former Buckley Railway was an absolutely ideal prototype for anyone who likes obscure bye-ways. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted March 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2019 There are at least some pointers to liveries in Nigel Digby's first liveries volume. Two possibly stupid questions; How is the loco an 0-6-2 when it has all its coupling rods? How did the GCR service the docks if it rebuilt the locos to be too high to go under the bridge? Possibly more useful, I have just found a source of GCR wagon transfers - the HMRS has none. They came from Quainton Road Models. There is a website but it does not take orders. However, when I sent a cheque the response was very fast. Jonathan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said: How is the loco an 0-6-2 when it has all its coupling rods? If you read the caption to the photograph I read it as saying that it had been an 0-6-2st and then had been converted to an 0-8-0st. Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted March 26, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 26, 2019 Ah, if you assume that the second line is a new sentence it makes sense - just no capital letter. Jonathan 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbcompound Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 11 hours ago, Caley Jim said: If you read the caption to the photograph I read it as saying that it had been an 0-6-2st and then had been converted to an 0-8-0st. Jim Even with punctuation this loco had a long and complex history. It started as an 0-6-0 tender engine built in 1846 by Sharp for the Manchester and Birmingham (their No.30, later LNWR No.430, then No.1222). In 1870 the LNWR rebuilt it as an 0-6-0ST, (became No.1029). Bought by the WM&CQR in 1872 and renamed "Queen". Rebuilt in 1880 as an 0-8-0ST. Rebuilt in 1890 as 0-6-2ST. Demolished in an accident after running out of control into the exchange sidings at Connah's Quay LNWR station. Rebuilt in 1897 as 0-6-2ST. Rebuilt 1903 as 0-8-0ST. Became GCR No.400 in 1905, then No.400B in 1907. Although it passed into LNER ownership in 1923 it did not receive a number and was scrapped in October of that year. 3 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted March 26, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 26, 2019 A bit like grandad's axe then, - three new handles and two new heads and it's still the same axe. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted March 26, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2019 7 hours ago, webbcompound said: Even with punctuation this loco had a long and complex history. It started as an 0-6-0 tender engine built in 1846 by Sharp for the Manchester and Birmingham (their No.30, later LNWR No.430, then No.1222). In 1870 the LNWR rebuilt it as an 0-6-0ST, (became No.1029). Bought by the WM&CQR in 1872 and renamed "Queen". Rebuilt in 1880 as an 0-8-0ST. Rebuilt in 1890 as 0-6-2ST. Demolished in an accident after running out of control into the exchange sidings at Connah's Quay LNWR station. Rebuilt in 1897 as 0-6-2ST. Rebuilt 1903 as 0-8-0ST. Became GCR No.400 in 1905, then No.400B in 1907. Although it passed into LNER ownership in 1923 it did not receive a number and was scrapped in October of that year. Thank you for clarifying and adding to my rather badly punctuated caption. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 20 minutes ago, Annie said: A bit like grandad's axe then, - three new handles and two new heads and it's still the same axe. Or Trigger's brush from 'Only Fools and Horses'! Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNP Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 On 26/03/2019 at 18:08, Caley Jim said: Or Trigger's brush from 'Only Fools and Horses'! Jim You mean like this? 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted April 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2019 Just found this thread by accident! i used to work down dock road in connahs quay for my stepdad who owned ‘c.c.crump and co’ the railway wagon builders who were based in dentith sidings next to the quay when railway traffic dried up back in about 1996 we lifted the track, looking back we should have kept some of the stuff we scrapped, there were all sorts of things like GCR weighted points levers and throws we just binned! one thing I did keep though, and it’s still in my dads garage is a WM&CQR bullhead rail chair On 25/03/2019 at 21:18, corneliuslundie said: How did the GCR service the docks if it rebuilt the locos to be too high to go under the bridge? Would they have been able to access the docks from the chord that used to come off the wrexham-Dee marsh line that ran or was that a later addition? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbcompound Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) WM&CQR chair! Nice. The chord from the main line to the Quay was authorised in 1883, and the contract let in 1891. The 1900 working timetable shows a 1.15pm mineral train leaving Brymbo North Junction, picking up at Frwyd Junction and Lay Hall and arriving a Connahs Quay Docks via the chord at 4.35pm. A goods train leaves Connah's Quay Docks via the chord at 5.00pm, arriving at Wrexham at 7.29pm with the specification that it is to work traffic for the Cambrian. There were six trains in, and six trains out of Connahs Quay Docks on the Buckley line, with the 4.10pm specified to put off traffic for Birkenhead at Buckley Junction at 5.45pm, and the 4.30pm to put off traffic for the CLC system also at Buckley Junction when required at 6.00pm. A mineral train for the Wirral picked up at Buckley Junction at 7.35pm, and a goods and mineral at 11.55pm There was also a link in from the LNWR by the chemical works/timber yard/wagon repair works, but it doesn't seem to have been much used. Edited April 4, 2019 by webbcompound 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted April 5, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2019 Interesting. What might have been the Cambrian traffic carried to Wrexham? Jonathan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted April 5, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2019 Lovely project. An area and railway full of interest and it will create a model railway that will be different. That is a big plus for me! There is at least one model of the loco pictured above. The story is that after the GCR took over, they moved it away to leafy Buckinghamshire for other duties. Not the finest of fnescale models but a bit historical in its own right. Built from a photograph in "Dow" many years ago by the Rev. peter Denny. It has a wooden chassis block with brass frames bolted to it and old 3 rail metal wheels, with the axles cut and put into plastic tubes to open it up to EM gauge. I have restored the paint finish and filled a big hole in on one side tank. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted April 5, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2019 I assume webbcompound is aware of the book "The Buckley Railway Album and Associated Industries" eg https://www.amazon.co.uk/Buckley-Railway-Album-Associated-Industries/dp/B00E7OA17W Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted April 5, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2019 There is also a book about connahs quay docks too im going to see my stepdad this weekend and I know he has a copy so I’ll find out some info on it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbcompound Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) Yes I have the Buckley Album. Other sources I am using are: Boyd on the WM&CQR and the Buckley Connolly on the Victorian brickyards of Flintshire and Denbighshire Pritchard: The Making of Buckley and District plus Dow on the GCR and the resources of the Archives at Hawarden which has some of the source material for the above publications, plus other photos (in particular of the inn) and documents, and the (very big) GCR survey map plus of course several site visits to look at what is left of the embankment and quay stonework. There are still several buildings that I have very little evidence on (they appear right at the back of other photos giving tantalising and contradictory information about roof lines0 so I would be interested to track down a copy of the book on the docks mentioned by big jim if he can provide details. The Cambrian traffic no doubt included empties returning after delivery of stuff (coal?) to the Quay, but also possibly incoming pit props. Edited April 5, 2019 by webbcompound 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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