RMweb Premium Popular Post macgeordie Posted March 15, 2019 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) I was looking for something different for the layout which was built in my preferred era which is early BR and it was suggested that the Thompson BZ 6 wheel brake van might be a good choice as it has never been offered as an RTR vehicle, probably because 6 wheelers are not the easiest to get to run well except on the gentlest of curves. I had a look at some information on the prototypes and Tim Shackleton sent me the following which I found very useful. Apart from Milk tanks, six-wheeled stock of any sort was unusual after WW2 and apart from the familiar LMS-designed BGZ or 'Stove R' the only other passenger-rated vehicles to be seen in any numbers were the LNER-influenced, BR-built BZ. Entering service in 1950, a total of 80 these vans were built to Dia 358 at Stratford carriage works using pre-assembled parts manufactured at Darlington. They were numbered E70647E to E70726E. In detail they closely resembled bogie suburban stock designed under the supervision of Edward Thompson, who had left the LNER in 1946 and may have had little to do with the BZ. Apart from the six-wheeled underframe their most unusual feature was the positioning of the springs which were behind the axleguards. The bodywork was 32ft long by 8ft 111/4 in wide and the stated load capacity was five tons. When marshalled with passenger stock, the lack of corridor connections imposed limitations on the BZs but there were no particular restrictions on their use, and like most NPCS they could be seen on rural branches as well as main lines the length and breadth of the country. They were widely travelled and a random trawl of available images from the 1960s finds them at places as diverse as Andover, Preston, Ely, Reading, Doncaster and Aylesbury. The BZs provided accommodation and a brake valve for the guard – compared with the LMS design, the lack of a stove made them less appealing in cold weather if steam heat wasn’t available – but they were more commonly used as ordinary parcels stock. For the most part they seem to have been diagrammed indiscriminately alongside other NPCS vans but in the carriage working book certain diagrams specifically requested BZs. They were vacuum-fitted (brakes on the outer axles only) and had electric lighting with jumper cables so they could connect to an adjacent vehicle. The use of six-wheeled vehicles in passenger trains appears to have been outlawed in 1959 – at least officially – but this instruction may not have been immediately heeded. When introduced these vans carried plain crimson livery with gold or straw-coloured Gill Sans lettering and many were later painted in lined maroon. The roof was grey (at least for a week or two after shopping) while the ends and running gear were black – when vans were repainted from 1962 onwards, the ends would have been in body colour. The BZs were solidly built but in later life some received riveted strengthening strips around the doors, windows and lower bodysides. The BZs survived long enough to receive blue livery with white Rail Alphabet lettering from 1966 on, but many were still in some form of red in 1970. In 1973 a total of 70 BZs were nominally in service but there were only 9 by 1977, the last few examples being withdrawn in 1979. I bought a copy of the Isinglass drawing and sourced quite a few photos. I found a set of photos which had been taken of the preserved one. They were on another forum called Western Thunder, here is a link http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/anatomy-of-a-thompson-bz-brake-van.2471/ I found a few more photos in the books in my collection and a few more on the internet. I've built a couple of test builds now and so far it has come out quite well. I've made a few tweaks to the drawing for the underframe to improve the fit of things but other than that it has gone well. I've test run it on the layout and it sailed around reverse curves without batting an eyelid which pleased me no end. I based the chassis on the 'Cleminson Truck' principle and the centre wheel has springing as well as being able to move from side to side. Once the three sections of the running chassis are fitted, the outer sections swivel slightly to align the tread more with the track which assists the running. One end can rock slightly and the other is the reference end so is rigid. Due to the fact that the springs are behind the Axleguards I couldn't find a suitable casting for the axlebox which was commercially available, so in the end I added it to the etch as a 3 part assembly. It's a bit fiddly but goes together well and looks like a good representation of the real one. Edited January 23, 2023 by macgeordie Photo reloaded 21 1 1 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Roger Sunderland Posted March 15, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 15, 2019 Looks magnificent, as do all your creations. When is it likely to be available? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted March 15, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 15, 2019 Hi Roger I'm ordering some more etches this weekend, so about two to three weeks should see it ready to go. The only other thing I am waiting for is the roof profiles which I ordered from Dart Castings, but they sometimes take ages to deliver stuff. Ian 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Fantastic beastie Ian. Nice to see a proper BZ appear. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Dave Bradwell is/was allegedly going to do one of these, though it hasn't appeared yet.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaymzHatstand Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 That looks absolutely fantastic! I do like a good 6 wheel vehicle to add interest to a rake, and this is definitely a good one! Very much looking forward to seeing more of it! Cheers J 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 11 hours ago, Tim Lewis said: Dave Bradwell is/was allegedly going to do one of these, though it hasn't appeared yet.... Dave is doing one. He had a nearly finished test etch at Scalefour North last year and it looked excellent with an inovative method of springing the centre axle. Not sure how close to release it is though. Justin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted March 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2019 13 hours ago, Tim Lewis said: Dave Bradwell is/was allegedly going to do one of these, though it hasn't appeared yet.... Snooze you lose. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) On 16/03/2019 at 10:57, 57xx said: Snooze you lose. I don't suppose Dave will be remotely bothered; it's not exactly a commercial enterprise, and just like Ian, it'll be something he wants to do. I've enjoyed building kits from both. Neither will be able to - or would want to, necessarily - retire to the Maldives on the proceeds. Adam Edited March 21, 2019 by Adam Grammar and spelling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted March 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2019 /s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted March 16, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Adam said: I don't suppose Dave will be remotely bothered; it's not exactly a commercial enterprise, and just like Ian, it'll be something he wants to do. I've enjoyed building kits from both. Neither will be able - or would want too, necessarily - retire to the Maldives on the proceeds. Adam Dave will be at Scalefour North in 3 weeks time. I am demonstrating there myself this year so I'll have a chat with him. I don't know if this is Dave's business or like me he just does it for enjoyment. As you say, you never earn enough to make a decent living out of it. I am quite happy if I break even on a project and that's about all that happens with most of them. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hamlin Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Count me in for a couple of these Ian, love em Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted March 17, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 17, 2019 I remember a blue BZ being shunted around York station by an 08 in 1975, even then it looked archaic, mind you there was a black painted ED Gresley coach in one of the north bay platforms too. Happy days [no camera back then]. Dava Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted March 17, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 17, 2019 14 hours ago, Mark Hamlin said: Count me in for a couple of these Ian, love em O.K. Mark, you are on the list. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted March 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2019 Anything Thompson is too late for me, but that 6 wheel underframe arrangement looks great! I'm hoping to get some 6 wheel GE coaches at some point - they will likely be body only, is the W irons etc. something you may be able to do as a standalone kit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted March 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2019 On 16/03/2019 at 11:23, Adam said: I don't suppose Dave will be remotely bothered; it's not exactly a commercial enterprise, and just like Ian, it'll be something he wants to do. I've enjoyed building kits from both. Neither will be able - or would want too, necessarily - retire to the Maldives on the proceeds. Adam, tongue was firmly in cheek. I'm more than well aware that Ian is genuinely making these kits for his own use/enjoyment and sharing what he creates with others (I did after all help with his O33 kit), not running a business. Don't know about Dave, but either way, it was not a dig. Merely a poke at the frothing going on over in the Hornby section (and others) at the moment. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 One for me, please, Ian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted March 18, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2019 19 hours ago, Bucoops said: Anything Thompson is too late for me, but that 6 wheel underframe arrangement looks great! I'm hoping to get some 6 wheel GE coaches at some point - they will likely be body only, is the W irons etc. something you may be able to do as a standalone kit? The W irons (axleguards) are on the nickel silver etch along with most of the rest of the chassis parts but the solebars are on the brass etch so you would need to make those from L section brass. The wheelbase is 10'6" x 10'6", you could cut the pieces up to adjust the wheelbase, but it would be a bit messy. As the springs are behind the Axleguards I have made it a fold back etch so they automatically align themselves when you fold them as you can see here. They sit behind the solebar as in this photo. The parts for the running chassis are also part of the nickel silver etch as well so you could probably utilise those as well. I assume you will be using cast springs and axleboxes so the fold up part of the Axlebox would probably be best just cut off. I can supply the nickel silver etch as a separate item if you would like to use it for your scratchbuilds. Ian 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted March 18, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, jwealleans said: One for me, please, Ian. O.K. Jonathan, you are on the list. It was nice to meet you at Wakefield last year, loved the layout. Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted March 18, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2019 (edited) Original reply was to the wrong thread lol. I'm hoping the bodies have the solebars so it's just the actual axle holders etc. with the centre swivel etc. Edited March 18, 2019 by Bucoops Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Hi Ian, Please put me on your list for one of these, they look great. Thanks Clem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
50A55B Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I’ll have one of these too please, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted March 18, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2019 O.K. gents, you are on the list. Ian 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted March 18, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2019 Can you put me down for one too please, Ian? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 And could you put me down for one as well? Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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