Rugby Union

[The Fatadder]

[rockershovel]

Someone obviously had more time than enough at the BBC. Their latest predictions of pool stage qualifications can politely be described as "over-thinking" - it might be arithmetical possible for Italy to knock NZ out, but k certainly wouldn't put money on it - but there are some interesting possibilities. 

 

Particularly, Fiji knocking out Australia to set up a rematch v England is exciting. Wales v Samoa would be interesting. 

[rockershovel]

So.... England have won their pool with one match still to play. Let Farrell have a run out against Samoa, then. That will be "big boys rugby" and puts him squarely on the spot. 

 

Japan v Argentina looks attractive. 

[The Fatadder]

Fingers crossed he gets his  inevitable red card out the way now rather than when it will actually impact the team ..

[rockershovel]

16 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

Fingers crossed he gets his  inevitable red card out the way now rather than when it will actually impact the team ..

I thought it uncharitable to say so.... I was more thinking, let him take the punishment against this very physical side and put up another stodgy performance, as a contrast to the first two outings....

[Joseph_Pestell]

NZ-Italy last night a real disappointment. All over after 15 minutes.

 

Studio team talking up the chance of Italy still qualifying by beating France. Get real, guys.

[rockershovel]

On 30/09/2023 at 09:13, Joseph_Pestell said:

NZ-Italy last night a real disappointment. All over after 15 minutes.

 

Studio team talking up the chance of Italy still qualifying by beating France. Get real, guys.

Didn't expect anything else. Italy beat France? Ha ha...

 

This weekend seems like a parade of dead rubbers and walk-overs so I'm giving it a miss, off to Wembley on Sunday

 

Next week? Scotland v Ireland has to be worth a watch. England v Samoa could be anything or nothing. Japan v Argentina... I'd back Los Pumas on form so far, but could be a good game. 

Edited October 7, 2023 by rockershovel

[EddieB]

Maybe it’s me, but I’m sure I’ve seen a number of forward passes not called, while Georgia’s “try that wasn’t” looked at least no worse than a pass that propelled Japan to a win over Samoa.  Inconsistency?  Yes, I think so.

 

Surely in these days of TMO and offside technology in soccer, can we not use similar technology to check passes that have led up to a try?

[rockershovel]

22 minutes ago, EddieB said:

Maybe it’s me, but I’m sure I’ve seen a number of forward passes not called, while Georgia’s “try that wasn’t” looked at least no worse than a pass that propelled Japan to a win over Samoa.  Inconsistency?  Yes, I think so.

 

Surely in these days of TMO and offside technology in soccer, can we not use similar technology to check passes that have led up to a try?

Forward passes seem to be very inconsistently refereed these days. Between that, the "high tackles" issue and the wildly inconsistent level of entries I'd say the various governing bodies have a lot of hard thinking to do before next time.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, EddieB said:

Maybe it’s me, but I’m sure I’ve seen a number of forward passes not called, while Georgia’s “try that wasn’t” looked at least no worse than a pass that propelled Japan to a win over Samoa.  Inconsistency?  Yes, I think so.

 

Surely in these days of TMO and offside technology in soccer, can we not use similar technology to check passes that have led up to a try?

 

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

Forward passes seem to be very inconsistently refereed these days. Between that, the "high tackles" issue and the wildly inconsistent level of entries I'd say the various governing bodies have a lot of hard thinking to do before next time.

What constitutes a forward pass is interpreted very differently in the Northern and Southern hemispheres.

[rockershovel]

On 30/09/2023 at 23:24, St Enodoc said:

 

What constitutes a forward pass is interpreted very differently in the Northern and Southern hemispheres.

SH interpretation appears to be "these don't actually occur" 

 

 

Speaking of which, what about the "match fixing" question? What a corker... not least because it's not unknown in sports with this sort of match-point system. The Australians clearly weren't happy when Fiji went to kick a penalty with the last kick of the game, which they didn't need to do to win but would have been significant in terms of group scores, could have put Australia out of contention - and that would have been legitimate game-management in their own interest. 

 

now RSA have been openly asked if a second and third side intend to manipulate the score line to affect future progression. RWC need to act on this, and fast. 

 

The actual question implies a pretty unlikely outcome, something like Scotland winning by 21 points while conceding a losing bonus point. That's against the run of play so far, to be charitable. The journalist in question probably ought to have his accreditation withdrawn, for bringing the game into disrepute. 

 

 

Speedway suffers from this sort of thing. The NFL isn't untouched by allegations and crucially, has been the subject of some very poor reffing at times. RWC can't afford this. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by rockershovel

[St Enodoc]

53 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

SH interpretation appears to be "these don't actually occur" 

Not far wrong.

 

53 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

The Australians clearly weren't happy when Fiji went to kick a penalty with the last kick of the game, which they didn't need to do to win but would have been significant in terms of group scores, could have put Australia out of contention

Australia shouldn't have given away the penalty! Attempting a penalty goal to deny Australia a losing bonus point was totally legitimate - it was in Fiji's own interests. Something similar on behalf of another team might be slightly more dodgy.

 

 

[rockershovel]

If the latest display by Italy doesn't bring on their departure from the 6N, I don't know what will. They were completely outclassed.

 

Fiji, by their own efforts have put Australia out. Samoa aren't looking so dusty, either. I await their confrontation with the ever-misfiring Farrell/Ford combination with interest. 

 

The South Seas players are playing for a few hundred pounds a game. Time for the governing bodies to put aside the disgraceful hypocrisy about "development" and put up a decent purse for these players. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

Interesting to see that the RFU are being dragged reluctantly towards a central-contract model. 

 

The inherent conflict of interest with the clubs must be resolved. The clubs have never been weaker; their essential position of "you must support our profits", never less justifiable. England needs a minimum number of clubs. It clearly doesn't need any of the owners - least of all, the speculators and absentees. 

 

Rob Andrew did more than any other man at Twickenhsm to sustain this conflict, but he is long gone. Time for progress. 

[rockershovel]

Oh, and a word about refereeing.

 

Whoever thought that disallowing a perfectly good try, after several minutes pondering the screen while the crowd booed and heckled - and not even awarding a yellow-to-red there and then - was in the interests of the game should clear his desk forthwith.

 

Tries, once given, should stand. If the TMO or linesman sees an offence, they should notify the ref FIRST. He has a mic and they have flags.

[tigerburnie]

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

Interesting to see that the RFU are being dragged reluctantly towards a central-contract model. 

 

The inherent conflict of interest with the clubs must be resolved. The clubs have never been weaker; their essential position of "you must support our profits", never less justifiable. England needs a minimum number of clubs. It clearly doesn't need any of the owners - least of all, the speculators and absentees. 

 

Rob Andrew did more than any other man at Twickenhsm to sustain this conflict, but he is long gone. Time for progress. 

Without the clubs, ALL of them there is no RFU. the game can continue without the RFU, they do not exist without the clubs, the RFU should be replaced it is not fit for purpose.

[BoD]

I hope England don’t meet any of the ‘big boys’ in this tournament.

It will all be rather embarrassing.

[gwrrob]

The sooner they are out the sooner we can get rid of Borthwick.

[The Fatadder]

When will Borthwick see what everyone else can and stop playing Ford and Farrell together.

(Or more to the point stop playing Farrell full stop!)

 

his kicking is terrible, yet with him on the pitch we never let players with a better kicking game take the penalties.   The running out of time on such a simple kick was beyond a joke, at that point I was really hoping that we’d lose by <3 points just so he would suffer!

 

Todays performance undid all the good work of the past 3 games, back to endless penalties and sloppy kicking!  Will need to step it up against Fiji, dropping Farrell would be a good start. Along with having Care as the starting scrum half  

[whart57]

10 hours ago, rockershovel said:

If the latest display by Italy doesn't bring on their departure from the 6N, I don't know what will. They were completely outclassed.

 

Fiji, by their own efforts have put Australia out. Tonga aren't looking so dusty, either. I await their confrontation with the ever-misfiring Farrell/Ford combination with interest. 

 

The South Seas players are playing for a few hundred pounds a game. Time for the governing bodies to put aside the disgraceful hypocrisy about "development" and put up a decent purse for these players. 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem with Italy is that they sit in that huge gap between the 6N and the rest of Europe. They were outclassed by France and the AB - no surprise there - but dealt with Namibia and Uruguay comfortably. 

[rockershovel]

Farrell timed out while complaining to the ref about Samoan tackles... you couldn't make it up. As a captain, he is beyond useless; as a tactical leader on the pitch, there seems to be no beginning to his talents; his seamless integration into the half-backs quite invisible and his management of the referee, a master-class in how not to do it. 

 

Please God, someone tie him up in a cellar to keep him from playing in the QFs 

 

 

Meanwhile Scotland have just run in two very neat tries in three minutes. They won't qualify and probably won't win tonight, but two tries in three minutes is classy rugby. 

[rockershovel]

20 hours ago, tigerburnie said:

Without the clubs, ALL of them there is no RFU. the game can continue without the RFU, they do not exist without the clubs, the RFU should be replaced it is not fit for purpose.

The bottom line is that the great majority of clubs in England, well over 99% of them are completely irrelevant to the national squad.

 

Our youth and development scheme is worthless. The club game is of too low a standard. The majority of England players come through the upper tiers of the education system and a handful of Universities. 

 

Players used to reckon it necessary to play for an inner circle of 6 or 7 clubs - Wasps, Quins, Saracens, Bath, Northampton, Richmond, Leicester, London Irish - to have any real chance of selection. It isn't much different now. 

 

Rugby isn't football. The professional clubs are financial disasters - half of them are in receivership. It's time to sweep away the broken ownership model. Put the top 8 clubs in a closed league. Cut their fixture list by 50% and centrally contract the 40 or so top players. Impose maximum numbers of imported players. 

 

The RFU can afford this. The 6N brings in more revenue than the whole Premiership season. Get a competent management team to replace ALL the present club owners.

 

The RFU are grossly neglecting the grass-roots game, allowing a handful of professional clubs to run amok and utterly failing to run an effective international team 

Edited October 8, 2023 by rockershovel

[St Enodoc]

26 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

The bottom line is that the great majority of clubs in England, well over 99% of them are completely irrelevant to the national squad.

 

Our youth and development scheme is worthless. The club game is of too low a standard. The majority of England players come through the upper tiers of the education system and a handful of Universities. 

 

Players used to reckon it necessary to play for an inner circle of 6 or 7 clubs - Wasps, Quins, Saracens, Bath, Northampton, Richmond, London Irish - to have any real chance of selection. It isn't much different now. 

 

Rugby isn't football. The professional clubs are financial disasters - half of them are in receivership. It's time to sweep away the broken ownership model. Put the top 8 clubs in a closed league. Cut their fixture list by 50% and centrally contract the 40 or so top players. Impose maximum numbers of imported players. 

 

The RFU can afford this. The 6N brings in more revenue than the whole Premiership season. Get a competent management team to replace ALL the present club owners.

 

The RFU are grossly neglecting the grass-roots game, allowing a handful of professional clubs to run amok and utterly failing to run an effective international team 

Much the same, under different names, applies in Australia too.

[whart57]

11 hours ago, rockershovel said:

Rugby isn't football. The professional clubs are financial disasters - half of them are in receivership. It's time to sweep away the broken ownership model. Put the top 8 clubs in a closed league. Cut their fixture list by 50% and centrally contract the 40 or so top players. Impose maximum numbers of imported players. 

 

 

Perhaps controversially the merger of the Premiership and United Rugby Championship should be considered, only those clubs with a sustainable base invited to join. Leicester, obviously, then probably Bath and Gloucester, Harlequins, Saracens if they can fumigate their affairs, Northampton and possibly Sale and Newcastle.

[tigerburnie]

There was talk of a european league with promotion and relegation, but seemingly the french weren't keen.