RMweb Premium 30368 Posted February 14, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2019 Hi, There has been some interest in the ex LSWR/ex SR H15 class 4-6-0. I confess to being slightly obsessed with these handsome and robust locomotives that I can recall trundling through Woking in the 1950s. They were, arguably, the prototype of the classic British 4-6-0 mixed traffic loco with two cylinders and outside, accessible, valve gear. One attraction of the class is the many significant variations in such a small class, five in a class of only 26 and that's before you consider other variations like chimneys and tender swaps! During the build my main source of prototype information will be Peter Swift's excellent "The Book of the H15 and S15 4-6-0s". I know that Peter also has a minor obsession with the class! The prototype, 30491 looking resplendent ex works. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted February 14, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2019 Some initial thoughts and the PDK Kit. I have found the guys at PDK very helpful in my quest for building a version of every H15 variation. For 30491 they supplied me with a standard H15 kit with the brass boiler wrapper replaced with a Maunsell style tapered boiler which is a resin casting. All the kit goodies on display, well almost all. One point that is apparent is the different smokebox wrapper diameters for the taper and parallel boilers, the kit is supplied with a parallel style front so I will have to scratch build one suitable for 30491. By the way, no intended criticism of the kit! Lastly I also want to mention the variations in driving wheel spacing. 30330-30335 were all rebuilds of earlier Dummond classes with fireboxes longer than Urie's new build loco's. So this series have a 6 inch longer wheelbase between the 2nd and 3rd driver. The great team at PDK built me a model of 30333 a few years. This has a standard wheelbase (7ft 6inches) or 2mm shorter than the prototype but correct for all the other variations. It was only after a few years of further research that I realised this oversight. So the chassis supplied for 30491 will be built with the extended wheelbase and fitted to 30333 so 30491 already has a working chassis! The PDK chassis cater's for both variations:- That's all for now! Kind regards, Richard B 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted February 15, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2019 Me again, have done a bit more this afternoon. One thing I should add. I am not suggesting that this topic is in any way "an expert view" - I started building 4mm loco's about 8 years ago and as many will agree, it is a continual learning (and re-learning!) process. The H15 frame frets are very well thought out, they are joined by crossmembers and after the axle bearings have been soldered they need to be bent up as shown below. The bearing holes will need to be enlarged to fit the bearings, I use a broach. Once soldered (from the inside) the bearings will need to be reamed (1/8 "). I have not yet fitted the trailing bearings because I am building the extended wheelbase and will mount the frames in a jig with the coupling rods fitted to ensure alignment. The frames mounted in the jig with the extended wheelbase coupling rods fitted (both types are supplied in the valve gear fret), you can see the small ovality of the trailing bearing hole. The final view for today shows the frame crossmembers fitted and clamped ready for soldering. That's all for today - off to collect a grandson from Salisbury station. Have a good weekend. Kind regards, Richard B 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Great stuff that you've made a start! Looking at the photos, are the wheels Markits, presumably RP25? John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted February 17, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2019 Many thanks John. Yes the wheels are Markits. I have now fitted the wheels, including the leading pair. A few pictures follow. I now realise that perhaps I should have started this story as a Blog but that seemed a bit too grand so I did this! If you look carefully you can see that the leading pair of wheel flanges are touching. Picture also shows cylinder stretcher and cylinder castings. This (poor!) picture shows the wheel mounted on its axle and clamped into my pillar drill chuck. I reduce the flange height using a fine file (sparingly) and emery paper. Frequently checking flange clearance and progressively reducing each pair of wheels. If I recall, drill speed is about 400 rpm. Final picture in this session shows all three wheels fitted and front pair have the necessary clearance. Obviously there is no impact on wheel diameter in relation to track surface and having run four H15's I can detect no impact on running stability due to the slightly reduced flange height. Cheerio for now! Richard B 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Richard, your pictures are very clear and informative. It isn't a lot you've taken off, but just enough to do the trick. Perfect. Many thanks for posting. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LN850 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 There is a drawing of the Cab & Splasher arrangement for 491 available from the NRM. I have these drawings for other versions of the H15 and they are very useful, being fully dimensioned. Those for the Maunsell versions certainly debunk the idea, that seems to have gained traction, that the straight footplate versions had no splashers, they may have been small but they were there. A small correction if I may, the wheelbase dimension between the 2nd & 3rd driver of the rebuilds was 7 inches more at 8'1". The firebox was 6" longer resulting in the cab front being further back, In fact the cabs of all the varieties were slightly different. I'm looking forward to following your progress on this. I've never seen a model of 491. Mike 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted February 18, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2019 Hi Mike, Do you have the reference for the drawing mentioned, sounds very useful. Yes all versions of the H15, including 330-334 had a splasher over the driving wheels. You are correct regarding the coupled wheelbase, it is 8'1" or an additional 7", my drawing is very well worn and my eyes are not what they were! Fortunately 1" makes no difference in 4mm! Will keep you all posted on progress, one thing I must remember is that I am building a chassis for 30333 and not 30491, the brake block positions are different! 30333 built by PDK with a few additions by me. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted February 19, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2019 Hi, Not so much progress to report, today was our Wedding Anniversary so off to the seaside for a nice lunch with Mrs B. I have now separated 30333's body from the chassis. I think that you can see the 2mm difference in trailing driver wheelbase. Next shot shows new chassis with cylinder stretcher, front motion and main motion brackets fitted and ready to solder. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LN850 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Quote Posted Monday at 13:18 Hi Mike, Do you have the reference for the drawing mentioned, sounds very useful Collection: SR Works Drawings Catalogue Reference: E 15407 Description: Cab & Splasher Arrangement for 491 with N15 boiler. You will need to download the order form for drawings on the 'microfilm' lists from the NRM. Here is another drawing that would prove useful. This drawing is valid for all locos mentioned after 1952. Same order form. Collection: SR Works Drawings Catalogue Reference: E 46800 Description: Arrangement of Live Steam Injectors for N15, H15 and S15 classes Yet another drawing that would prove useful. This is for the Maunsell rebuild of the F13. Unfortunately this one is on the original drawings list and is much more costly (£27 for a digital download). You will need to download the order form for drawings on the 'original drawings' lists from the NRM. Collection: SR original drawings Box: 15 Roll/Drawer: 068 Co. Prefix: E Drawing No.: 13387 Description: Pipe, rod & brake arrangement for A17. Mike 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted February 20, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2019 Many thanks Mike, much appreciated. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted February 20, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2019 30333 on its new chassis, fair bit to do yet but coming along. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted February 23, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2019 Quick update. Lovely sunny day today so the garden takes priority! Have had "permission" to do a bit of soldering though. Cylinders soldered to frame stretcher but not yet soldered to frame. Both front and rear motion brackets fitted. Not that cylinders have a slight slope from horizontal (about 7-8 degrees I think). Previous PDK kits have had fabricated cylinders, this one has cast cylinders which will have a brass etch covering. You need to drill a 2mm hole through the castings for the piston rods. I used a pillar drill at a slowish speed and kept the drill lubricated (spit is ok!) and clear of swarf since white metal can snag and break the drill. Sorry to go on if you already know all this! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted March 1, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2019 Quick update. Off on holiday for warmer location now that usual British weather has returned! Bogie construction complete coupling and connecting roads assembled and all valve gear prepared ready for assembly. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted March 1, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2019 PS Regarding information on the prototypes, apart from Peter Swift's excellent book already referred to I should also mention David Maidment's equally good "Urie and Maunsell 2 Cylinder 4-6-0's". Has has good pictures of 330 series and of 491. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted March 12, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 12, 2019 Back from the sunshine and fantastic "Carnaval" week in Las Palmas, Grand Canaria ! Quick update - valve gear ready for final assembly and gearbox/motor assembly ready for fitment. Now waiting for some items from Finecast to final assembly of valvegear etc. Kind regards, Richard B 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted March 14, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2019 I see that we have a delay to indexing the activity streams due to a software update so I assume that those modellers that were following are/will be else you are all bored. I understand! Anyway, I have started building 30491 PDK bodykit whilst I wait for some parts to arrive. The picture shows the chassis from 30333 united with the footplate for 30491. In front is an ex Wills King Arthur taper boiler which has had the first of two brass boiler sections added, the original kit was for fitting to a Triang chassis. Lastly is the very hybrid cylinder assembly for 30335's new chassis. The cylinder castings and stretcher are PDK (plus a few scratchbuilt bits and pieces) the crosshead and piston rods are from Markits and of very high quality. Lastly the cylinder piston gland casting and slidebars are from SE Finecast. I like a challenge! Bye for now! Richard B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted March 21, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2019 Making some progress so long as I remember which H15 variant I am building! Have all the parts I need to finish 30333 chassis and have fitted the cylinders to the chassis. Will now focus on 30491. Main body now mated with tapered boiler. Bit of a struggle because the old Wills white metal boiler needed a huge amount of fettling to get it to look respectable. Then, fitting it to the body assembly was equally tricky. I'm not suggesting that I am an expert but I would not recommend this particular conversion to a starter. PDK built chassis still runs superbly but has also needed some filing to fit and the brake hanger for the trailing axle will have to be removed and fitted to the leading position. 30333 has its trailing wheel hanger trailing the wheel. 30491 boiler, as you can see, needed a lot of filler because the smokebox on this boiler is about a foot or so longer than the Uris parallel boiler smokbox. This may help to explain why drivers reported that 491 was a bit more powerful than its the parallel boilered sisters. 491 looks a bit of a mess but it will be much better I promise! Kind regards, Richard B 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 There's not much taper either. I built a Urie S15 with Maunsell boiler in 7mm. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted March 22, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2019 Hi Peter, Yes, the Urie and Maunsell taper boilers were interchangeable and in both cases the small taper is on the first boiler section adjacent to the smokebox. Urie S15 in 7mm must be a fine looking beast? One of my first projects was a Urie S15 from DJH. Model of the last one I saw working 30499, which, has survived. Do you also model Brazilian prototypes? Thanks for your interest. Kind regards, Richard B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) The steam prototypes here are either British or American manufacturers. Railways here are a bit run down. And the only ones that where in this state where close some years ago. Down south the domestic still working and a few preserved lines. There is or was a veriety of gauges, Irish, standard and narrow, in places duel. Edited March 22, 2019 by N15class 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted March 26, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 26, 2019 Thanks N15 for the Brazilian update, interesting range of track gauges, Irish 5ft interesting. A quick update with 30491: Body moving ahead and fits chassis well. Camera is so cruel - my eyesight is not what it was so more wet and dry work required! Richard B 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted March 29, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29, 2019 Quick update in between watching practice for weekend's F1 race and Brexit vote (sorry). First few coat's of paint on 491. Probably over the hump now, should not take too long to complete then on to the tender. Kind regards, Richard B 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted April 6, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2019 Hi, Final stages of building 491's body and have completed all the modifications to the chassis that was fitted to 30333. Cab details. Drivers side of 491. A minor point noted whilst building, the reverser lever for 491 is a little higher than standard to clear extended firebox mountings unique to this engine. When I have completed 491 I will take a break from my H15 obsession and make a start on a PDK J36 kit that I am building for a local model railway club. Kind regards, Richard B 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted April 9, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 9, 2019 Hi, Now painting and lining 491, doesn't look too bad. Will take some pictures and provide another update when completed. Off to Train West this weekend, annual exhibition at Corsham Wiltshire. http://www.trainwest.org.uk/ Kind regards, Richard B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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