Use of the Term "Snowflake"

[Ozexpatriate]

US usage of 'snowflake' is usually in a political context, often prefixed by 'liberal'. It is a particularly charged epithet here and was heavily used by right-wing commentators.

 

It primarily refers to Millennials, often university students. A 'snowflake' in this context is someone who was cozened and brought up to believe they are individually valued but melt away in the face of life's realities, unable to stand up for themselves.

 

I first noticed it being used to describe students protesting campus speakers with a controversial right-wing agenda (the notion being that they could not handle hearing a different point of view than their own) or students insisting on specific inclusive language (often related to LGBTQ concerns) that others see as 'political correctness'.

 

It is pejorative.

 

The idea that a bunch of snowflakes united together can create havoc is not part of the metaphor.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Ozexpatriate

[Claude_Dreyfus]

China is a one party state with an appalling human rights record and has a history of industrial espionage.

 

Do not confuse economic clout with having a good moral compass when it comes to international affairs. Successful countries should be looking to apply both at home and abroad.

 

As such what China may think of him makes no difference to his record.

It was a slightly tongue in cheek comment...but only slightly though. The current issue between China and Canada is partly due to Beijing believing that Canada are kowtowing to Trump...see Huawai. Edited January 16, 2019 by Claude_Dreyfus

[Hobby]

Last Land Registry figures for Stockport - £173 109 for terraces for example. Average wage in Stockport? First few Google results have one saying about £20 000 and another £27 000, and the latter sounds a bit on the high side (without drilling down to see what average it's using). So over six times the average salary for a terraced house.

Between 4 and 6 times then... mine was 3 times back in '85 and bloody expensive train tickets as well (no they weren't cheap back then either).

 

Bear in mind interest rates as well... 15.4% at one point in the 80s compared to a fraction of that now... Not so affordable then...

 

Property prices have always varied as well. You chose the area you could afford just like now and if you could afford you rented and moaned. Just like now! ,)

Edited January 16, 2019 by Hobby

[doilum]

Agreed, Doilum, we stretched ourselves to the limit as well... Something some critics seem to forget...

 

 

 

I never had any extra money to buy up other properties and never had the control you seem to think we did on house prices, though the "profit" I've made will help towards getting my kids a house of their own as is common with many of us from that generation... The "investors" you criticise were in the minority, though have always been around... I've read many books which mention that one of the "workers" owned many houses (often nothing more than slums) which were then rented out to his/her fellow workers... There's nothing new under the sun.

No. The "profit" you made will mostly go to fund your care home costs @ @£850/week until you are down to the last £23K.

[Hobby]

I wonder if these equity release schemes might mitigate that?

[Ozexpatriate]

It was a slightly tongue in cheek comment...but only slightly though. The current issue between China and Canada is partly due to Beijing believing that Canada are kowtowing to Trump...see Huawai.

China has subsequently announced a death sentence for a Canadian citizen who was previously convicted as a drug smuggler.

[doilum]

2 years salary...

 

Average salary for full time employees in 2015: £27,600

Average house price: £225,621

 

 

Slightly random timeline, but most graphs focus on the last 25 years!

To be fair, you could have had a newly refurbished two up two down for £5.5K except they sold like hotcakes. In this part of God's own county you don't have to look too far to find an ex local authority semi for around £80K.

Of course it won't be brand new, may require a little tlc an diy, and won't be in the must have post code. It is however a first step on the ladder. I appreciate and sympathize with those caught up in capitals toxic housing mess. Given a referendum would we vote for Lexit??

[Reorte]

Between 4 and 6 times then... mine was 3 times back in '85 and bloody expensive train tickets as well (no they weren't cheap back then either).

 

Bear in mind interest rates as well... 15.4% at one point in the 80s compared to a fraction of that now... Not so affordable then...

 

Between 6 and 9. 173 / 20 = 8.65, 173 / 27 = 6.4.

 

I agree that high interest rates effectively narrowed the gap but not entirely, and if you're at your limit of affordability when they're this low you're probably in a more dangerous situation since there's only one direction they can go.

[Hobby]

A quick on a right move search shows terraces in the "district" of Stockport from 42k upwards. As I said in the bit you didn't quote the area is also key.

[Reorte]

A quick on a right move search shows terraces in the "district" of Stockport from 42k upwards. As I said in the bit you didn't quote the area is also key.

If you're narrowing down areas that much you should also narrow down the average wages of the people living in them for the comparison. Prices only affordable by moving into pretty rough areas doesn't change the picture.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 Has there ever been a time when obtaining good housing wasn't a struggle? Even those in the happy position of getting a local authority house from some cause (in my Ma and Pa's case because he was a key worker recruited from The Netherlands to work on electronic systems in the UK aviation industry) they moved in without any furniture byond deckchairs and no cooker. The scraping together of the basic necessities took them three years. We didn't have any floor coverings other than a bath mat until I was four, when Pa landed a better paying position.

 

The market for mortgages was brutal when I came to purchase our first marital home. I had a third of the price in ready cash, and still struggled to get a sufficiently large loan because it was 2.5 times my salary, no leeway, future wife's earnings (which would only have been 1x anyway) not considered because we were only engaged. My then manager generously perjured himself, to get me the loan.

 

,,, your care home costs @ @£850/week until you are down to the last £23K.

 Ooh, where can I get that? With the three family elders with the most significant health conditions necessarily in care that would save about £5000 a month net. But perhaps I am best to be concentrating on the worst afflicted qualifying for 'continuing health care' funding. Interesting snippet: when any of these three die die, I have been told they will be credited their last three weeks care costs as a sort of refund to acknowledge that they were really unwell and probably should have been in an NHS hospital.

[spikey]

I think of it as a description of people who may look good but have no substance ...

 

As in the Texan  expression "All hat and no cows"?

Edited January 16, 2019 by spikey

[Nearholmer]

I thought it was a word used by crude, bullying types, to belittle people who have an ounce of sensitivity. But maybe I misunderstood.

[Reorte]

Whatever it means they seem pretty unpopular in Austria at the moment.

[Nearholmer]

Housing costs.

Given that, for a very long time, housing supply has lagged demand, often very significantly, it’s no surprise that housing has always been priced at the very edge of affordability. The price will rise when interest rates are low, and level or fall when they are high, but the combined price of bricks and mortar and borrowing money will always be barely within grasp for a person on a middling income, and out of the grasp of a person on a low income. It’s a fairly simple market.

The issue in recent years, especially since 2008, is that the economic policies in play massively favour owners of capital assets over those who own little or none, they cause capital assets to appreciate far faster than wages and general prices, and they give owners of capital assets huge advantage in terms of collateral against which to borrow on very low interest rates. So, the policies have driven much increased “ wealth division”. And, if so happens that young people are among the losers (not-winners?) in that, as are older people who own no equity in bricks and mortar.

That isn’t “old Kev having a sound-off”, it’s fact attested to by Chancellors of the Exchequer, and I’ve heard two CoE say that they were well aware of the near certainty that this would happen, and concerned about its social impact, but decided to set policy as they did because they thought the other options would lead to worse outcomes for society.

To me, it’s no surprise at all that society seeks to recover some of the windfall in capital value increase by having people use some of it to fund ‘elder care’.

Equally, it’s no surprise if people try to dodge attempts to get them to use their capital in this way, by using equity release.

A Chancellor soon will catch up with that one!

Edited January 16, 2019 by Nearholmer

[rockershovel]

The key moment in the housing market, was when the Thatcher administration decided that the law could be interpreted to allow Mutual Building Societies to be bought out and asset-stripped by small groups of their members.

 

The housing market was, at that time, fundamentally different from today. Mutual Building Societies were literally that; mutual societies which existed for the specific purpose of collecting deposits from their members and re-investing those deposits in the form of loans, at interest, for the specific purpose of buying houses, and funding development of housing.They didn’t advertise much, because everyone knew this, and everyone knew where to find their local one.

 

They didn’t have shareholders to please, so all their profits were ploughed back into the Society. They represented the embodiment of the idea of mutuality and mutual support. They didn’t lend money for cars or holidays, because that wasn’t their purpose. They also dominated the market, because (1) they lent money to people who often didn’t have any other bank account, or require one (2) they were considerably cheaper than the banks.

 

They also colluded to a considerable extent to control the credit supply, by restricting the multiples of earnings they would lend. They could do this because (1) they dominated the U.K. market (2) the governments of the day did not, dared not allow uncontrolled foreign property speculation in the housing market (3) the social housing system provided a lot of people with affordable housing of reasonable quality.

 

None of those conditions apply today.

[JeremyC]

My wife and I  were discussing the cost of housing with some friends a few months ago.

We are three couples who all bought their current houses in the late 1980s when the 2 1/2 or 3 1/ 3 times husband's salary plus 1x wife's salary limits for morgages were still imposed. All three husbands are professionals (Marine engineer, lecturer and quantity surveyor) as are two of the wives. In all three cases at our current salaries none of us could afford todays market price of our respective home were these limits still in place.

[jjb1970]

As a general observation I find that quite often those who apply labels to others are the first to take offence if they are at the receiving end of an asinine label.

[davknigh]

“Snowflake” as an insult, must have been coined by someone who came from sunny climes. Anyone who has experienced real winter knows that when snowflakes come in large numbers they are a formidable force, when they hang around they become glaciers which are capable of shaping continents, if you have ever seen an avalanche you know that snowflakes can kill. So yes, an individual snowflake may not seem like much, but get a few of us together and the story changes. Like many insults then, “snowflake” was born out of ignorance and is perpetuated by the ignorant.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[doilum]

“Snowflake” as an insult, must have been coined by someone who came from sunny climes. Anyone who has experienced real winter knows that when snowflakes come in large numbers they are a formidable force, when they hang around they become glaciers which are capable of shaping continents, if you have ever seen an avalanche you know that snowflakes can kill. So yes, an individual snowflake may not seem like much, but get a few of us together and the story changes. Like many insults then, “snowflake” was born out of ignorance and is perpetuated by the ignorant.

Cheers,

David

But to survive, they need that perfect environment.

[doilum]

My wife and I  were discussing the cost of housing with some friends a few months ago.

We are three couples who all bought their current houses in the late 1980s when the 2 1/2 or 3 1/ 3 times husband's salary plus 1x wife's salary limits for morgages were still imposed. All three husbands are professionals (Marine engineer, lecturer and quantity surveyor) as are two of the wives. In all three cases at our current salaries none of us could afford todays market price of our respective home were these limits still in place.

I remember the conversation in 1979 with our building society branch manager. He informed us that each month he had around £30K to lend. He could therefore help four or five first time buyers or one professional couple looking at five bedroom houses. We also had to find 33% deposit on any car loan or finance large or small.

[Guest]

But to survive, they need that perfect environment.

A 'Safe Space' if you like.

[davknigh]

But to survive, they need that perfect environment.

True. But then don’t we all? The temperature range that humans can survive in without added heat or cooling is actually quite narrow.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[big jim]

A 'Safe Space' if you like.

Time to roll this out....

 

https://youtu.be/sXQkXXBqj_U

 

From One of the best episodes of South Park in recent years in my opinion

[pH]

Not sure it had origins in Fight Club. Considering that film is now 20 years old (wow), and it's only a term which gained popularity in the last 5 years I definitely dispute that!

 

 

 'Snowflake' or more usually just 'flake' has been in common use since the 1960s to my knowledge. One of the female teachers at secondary school was known as 'Miss Flake' because she caved under any sort of pressure. It was very commonly regularly encountered thereafter in the work place too.

 

 

Snowflake is fairly new.

 

"Snowflake" was quite commonly used amongst youth in our area of the west of Scotland in the late 1960s - early 1970s. The nearest single-word equivalent I can think of (though it would never have been used there and in that time) is "milquetoast".

 

Our local paper used to report court cases, often with verbatim quotes. These could sometimes be quite hilarious. However, this one wasn't so funny. A guy I had gone to school with was steadily working his way though the list of violent offences. I think this one was for GBH. An eyewitness to the assault quoted the victim as saying "Do not hit me, for I am a snowflake."