Use of the Term "Snowflake"

[Hobby]

Canada's leader isn't he?

[phil-b259]

Who is Justin Trudeau? No, I really have no idea.

 

The prime minister of Canada.

 

While I'm not sure of his domestic record, on the international scene he has been exemplary - taking in Syran refugees for example and not kowtowing the the racist bully in the White House just to the south.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Trudeau

[njee20]

Millennials is generally defined as those born early-80s to mid-90s.

 

Spot on, we live in a society where the young expect everything instantly, however sadly they forget these things need to be earnt.

 

Cars for instance, most people bought used cars as they could not afford new ones. New cars came along much later, usually after getting on the housing ladder. Now after passing their test youngsters get a brand new lease car, might be cheap to start with but after 2 years what have they got other than a big bill for exceeding the mileage allowance!! 

 

There are plenty who thankfully buck this trend, but they are the quiet minority who get on and do it.

But that's nothing about expectation and everything about having access to cheap lease cars... Expectation would be those who, on their 17th birthday, have a hissy fit becuase they've not been bought an Audi A1. Whilst I don't doubt they exist in reality, they're far more common in the minds of the curmudgeonly baby boomers who ruined the housing market for successive generations by buying everything up cheap!

[Reorte]

Millennials is generally defined as those born early-80s to mid-90s.

 

But that's nothing about expectation and everything about having access to cheap lease cars... Expectation would be those who, on their 17th birthday, have a hissy fit becuase they've not been bought an Audi A1. Whilst I don't doubt they exist in reality, they're far more common in the minds of the curmudgeonly baby boomers who ruined the housing market for successive generations by buying everything up cheap!

My ire towards the housing market is directed towards those who think stretching  yourself to the limit when rates are low is a good idea (sell it for more later anyway!), ignoring the effect of low rates pushing up prices, and who think that house price inflation is a good thing.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

While I'm not sure of his domestic record, on the international scene he has been exemplary - taking in Syran refugees for example and not kowtowing the the racist bully in the White House just to the south.

 

Not sure the Chinese agree with that sentiment at the moment...

[doilum]

It wasn't cheap at the time. Everyone told me that £7.5K was too much to pay for a terraced house. That was about two years salary in 1979. The next house was shy of £30K and we had to take credit cards to melting point as this was more than the banks would lend us. We were also the generation conned into endowment mortgages only to be told, five years from maturing, that we would have to find a significant lump sum or remortgage and keep working beyond our planned date.

We sacrificed social life and holidays for almost two years to find that very first deposit and have spent hours every week laying under old bangers just to keep them running. We gritted our teeth and cut down on the jam as interest rates went north of 15%. DIY Was a survival skill not a hobby and we were not too pround to accept handed down carpets or recycled furniture.

What inflated the housing market was the use of easy get remortgages to fund holidays and new cars and the rush for buy to let in order to secure a decent pension.

Oh yes, the bright young thing who ran in to the back of me on a roundabout was driving a new A1 on daddy's insurance....

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I suspect the term snowflake reflects the perceived fragile nature of the current younger generations - see the endless memes noting the soldiers of WW1, the blitz spirit and the indomitable 'British spirit' in comparison to today's younger generation - particularly students. In reality, the same argument has probably been levied against the younger generations since prehistoric times; lazy, entitled etc. What has given these things far more traction in recent years is social media. The ability to comment and have an opinion on anything and everything in the public domain (exactly what we are doing here!!), expressed in a couple of sentences at most; often just an emoji.

 

People have always been sensitive and offended by stuff...it's only been in the last 10-20 years that we have been able to freely express these emotions. Posting on Twitter or Facebook takes a little less effort than a letter to the editor...

[njee20]

It wasn't cheap at the time. Everyone told me that £7.5K was too much to pay for a terraced house. That was about two years salary in 1979. The next house was shy of £30K and we had to take credit cards to melting point as this was more than the banks would lend us. We were also the generation conned into endowment mortgages only to be told, five years from maturing, that we would have to find a significant lump sum or remortgage and keep working beyond our planned date.

2 years salary...

 

Average salary for full time employees in 2015: £27,600

Average house price: £225,621

 

 

Slightly random timeline, but most graphs focus on the last 25 years!

[rockershovel]

I’d always understood that the term “snowflake” referred to “every one different” (with the implications that the differences referred to, were indistinguishable to most others) and that they would melt away without trace under pressure.

 

“Gammon” is a new one, much used in the “readers comments” columns of the daily press. It seems to refer to older voters who support Brexit, with the reference being to their high coloured complexions. A modern version of “Colonel Blimp”, I suppose - although the film version of the eponymous Colonel was very different from the subsequent cartoon character, being more akin to Corporal Jones in some ways.

[Hobby]

Agreed, Doilum, we stretched ourselves to the limit as well... Something some critics seem to forget...

 

the baby boomers who ruined the housing market for successive generations by buying everything up cheap!

 

I never had any extra money to buy up other properties and never had the control you seem to think we did on house prices, though the "profit" I've made will help towards getting my kids a house of their own as is common with many of us from that generation... The "investors" you criticise were in the minority, though have always been around... I've read many books which mention that one of the "workers" owned many houses (often nothing more than slums) which were then rented out to his/her fellow workers... There's nothing new under the sun.

[Hobby]

It depends on where you live and that figure is grossly distorted by the SE of England. There are plenty of affordable houses outside that area... Many kids these days seem to want to "start" with a 3 bed semi, when we started that was what we aiming for but we started much smaller and moved up when we could... There's another difference between expectations now and back then.

 

Average house price: £225,621

Edited January 16, 2019 by Hobby

[njee20]

I never had any extra money to buy up other properties and never had the control you seem to think we did on house prices, though the "profit" I've made will help towards getting my kids a house of their own as is common with many of us from that generation... The "investors" you criticise were in the minority, though have always been around... I've read many books which mention that one of the "workers" owned many houses (often nothing more than slums) which were then rented out to his/her fellow workers... There's nothing new under the sun.

 

 

It was a bit tongue in cheek in response to the "all young people are entitled" comment, plenty of people did exploit the market when it made sense to do so, and who can blame them, quite frankly. Speaking as home-owning millennial!

Edited January 16, 2019 by njee20

[rockershovel]

Agreed, Doilum, we stretched ourselves to the limit as well... Something some critics seem to forget...

 

 

 

I never had any extra money to buy up other properties and never had the control you seem to think we did on house prices, though the "profit" I've made will help towards getting my kids a house of their own as is common with many of us from that generation... The "investors" you criticise were in the minority, though have always been around... I've read many books which mention that one of the "workers" owned many houses (often nothing more than slums) which were then rented out to his/her fellow workers... There's nothing new under the sun.

It needs to be remembered that for anyone borrowing to buy a house in the 1970s and 1980s, there was a long period when double-digit inflation would float you off the rocks of debt quite quickly, but holding cash was pointless, and investment wasn’t much better. Yes, I made a handsome paper profit from the inflated price of the house I bought in 1982 - but the Trust Fund from my late fathers estate, comprising primarily the returns from selling a shop owned by the former family business, was inflated away to nothing between 1963 and 1978.

 

Am I ahead on the deal? Hard to say. I started with the price of a house in the bank in 1963, and I’ve ended with a house in 2018...

[njee20]

It depends on where you live and that figure is grossly distorted by the SE of England. There are plenty of affordable houses outside that area... Many kids these days seem to want to "start" with a 3 bed semi, when we started that was what we aiming for bit we started much smaller and moved up when we could... There's another difference between expectations now and back then.

 

 

But average wage is also vastly distorted in the same way by London and the SE. You can't deny that house prices have gone crazy since the 1970s, regardless of how distorted the data is.

Edited January 16, 2019 by njee20

[Pacific231G]

I suspect the term snowflake reflects the perceived fragile nature of the current younger generations - see the endless memes noting the soldiers of WW1, the blitz spirit and the indomitable 'British spirit' in comparison to today's younger generation - particularly students. In reality, the same argument has probably been levied against the younger generations since prehistoric times; lazy, entitled etc. What has given these things far more traction in recent years is social media. The ability to comment and have an opinion on anything and everything in the public domain (exactly what we are doing here!!), expressed in a couple of sentences at most; often just an emoji.

 

People have always been sensitive and offended by stuff...it's only been in the last 10-20 years that we have been able to freely express these emotions. Posting on Twitter or Facebook takes a little less effort than a letter to the editor...

I agree.  "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" came a long time before the internet let along Twitter. Is  a politician who relies of Twitter to communicate their 'policies 'a Twit? 

[Hobby]

Looking at the "ordinary" workers (rather than investment bankers, etc. which tend to be based in the SE) I'm not sure there's as much difference in average wages around the UK as there is between property prices in the SE and the rest of the UK (barring some small areas such as the footballer belt in Cheshire). For instance in my company all get the same wages wherever we live in the UK, and many "national" companies such as banks do the same. Sometimes there is an extra "allowance" (such as London Weighting) but that often isn't enough to compensate for living in an expensive area...

[rockershovel]

It depends on where you live and that figure is grossly distorted by the SE of England. There are plenty of affordable houses outside that area... Many kids these days seem to want to "start" with a 3 bed semi, when we started that was what we aiming for but we started much smaller and moved up when we could... There's another difference between expectations now and back then.

Depends where you are, and who you believe. There are areas which literally can’t give houses away, because the surrounding infrastructure is so deteriorated and there’s no work. No 1 Son and his wife bought a 3 bed detached when they married. My daughter is buying a 5 bed house in Bolsover for £185,000; it needs work but for two young professionals earning around £75,000 jointly, they can afford it. It’s all relative.

[HonestTom]

"Snowflake" originally referred to a person who believed that they were unique and precious, i.e. someone who requires special treatment for qualities that are, in reality, neither notable nor special. For example, one who claims to be triggered by the colour red and so demands that no one around them wear red (this was an example I encountered in person). The implication is that the person is simply making these demands for the sake of attention. However, the meaning has shifted over the last couple of years to mean "anyone who makes any request that I would not make myself," "anyone who complains about something I consider unimportant," and ironically has now reached the point where many of those now using the term would actually qualify as one (see also: Piers Morgan somehow getting angry about sausage rolls).

[Hobby]

Piers Morgan somehow getting angry about sausage rolls).

 

He's not getting "angry", that's his normal attitude!

[Reorte]

It wasn't cheap at the time. Everyone told me that £7.5K was too much to pay for a terraced house. That was about two years salary in 1979.

Two years' salary? If that was around the average salary, well, it's incredibly cheap compared to now. Adjusting for "London is expensive and distorts the figures" still doesn't come close to bringing the average salary to average house ratio down to anywhere near that for the rest of the country. Last Land Registry figures for Stockport - £173 109 for terraces for example. Average wage in Stockport? First few Google results have one saying about £20 000 and another £27 000, and the latter sounds a bit on the high side (without drilling down to see what average it's using). So over six times the average salary for a terraced house.

 

There are some significantly cheaper locations but what will the average salaries be in those places? Yes, it may be affordable for people from elsewhere but that doesn't help those locations.

 

Examples of working couples being able to get half-decent places illustrates part of the problem, if it now needs to professionals to buy a house that used to only need one.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Reorte

[phil-b259]

Not sure the Chinese agree with that sentiment at the moment...

 

China is a one party state with an appalling human rights record and has a history of industrial espionage.

 

Do not confuse economic clout with having a good moral compass when it comes to international affairs. Successful countries should be looking to apply both at home and abroad.

 

As such what China may think of him makes no difference to his record.

[Big James]

Snowflake as a term come from the context that working parents who haven’t got time to raise the kids due to working feel guilty so they make them out to be special little snowflakes who should be showered with love, anything the want and their opinions however absurd shouldn’t be disagreed with because they feel guilty because they go to work, so rarely spend time with them. When they get older and into the real world they encounter real people who don’t share the same opinions hence the term triggered. So now the term snowflake has been turned into an insult.

 

Big James

[Gibbo675]

I really don't get it.

I see it being increasingly used in the past few months but why do people use that specific word? Does it entertain the user to use it?

 

A snowflake is something that falls from the sky when it's snowing, isn't it?

I assume when used outside of these terms, it's meant to be offensive. So why not just say "stupid", "thick", "sensitive" or something else that says what the person actually means?

 

I understand the term "Snowflake generation", which is perhaps where this whole using it to describe someone who seems to be sensitive has come from, but if we're all about changing word meanings, surely I can call someone that naughty C word (which incidently I do not get offended by!) and that's okay?

 

It's like the term "special" rarely means what the word actually means.

Unless you're in in Asda, the word "special" is usually said in a silly tone of voice suggesting "disabled".

Therefore I struggle to find a word other than "special" that means "special", because I don't want people thinking I mean "disabled".

 

Maybe I am just being grumpy old man here but I really don't get it.

Steady on there, you might cause an avalanche of consternation !

 

Gibbo.

[Giles]

When it comes to the large rise in house prices, people tend to forget that for many, many years it was controlled by the limitation of the mortgage providers, whereupon the maximum you could borrow was 2 1/2 times one persons annual salary. This effectively capped property prices at a reasonable level.

 

Some wise-guy then decided to increase the allowable amount that could be borrowed to 4 x both partners annual salary, and hey-presto - up went all the prices because of demand, and up went all the interest payable to the mortgage companies......

 

I may have misremembered   the exact rates - but that was certainly the gist of it. We all still had to buy a house, but had to borrow a great deal more money to do it, and pay the mortagage companies for the privilege. Then came (unaffordable) negative equity. Nothing to do with the Baby Boomers per-se, rather the financial institutions who worked out they could shake the money tree.

[hayfield]

My ire towards the housing market is directed towards those who think stretching  yourself to the limit when rates are low is a good idea (sell it for more later anyway!), ignoring the effect of low rates pushing up prices, and who think that house price inflation is a good thing.

That's always what happens to most people when buying homes certainly in the south east, 45 years ago everyone had to stretch themselves to the limit financially to get on/up the housing ladder, the difference being inflation and wage rises over a 3-5 year period, which devalued the loan to acceptable amounts.

 

The long period of both low inflation and wage rises are no relief and borrowers have got used to low interest rates. Still as they say they are not making land anymore !!