Politicking by "pub landlord"?

[Dava]

Tim Martin is an engaging roguepreneur but Wetherspoons seemed to have headed inexorably downmarket. Pubs once smartly refurbished end up distinctly tatty, smelly & overcrowded.One doesn't take one's wife for lunch there anymore. The Moon & bell' in Loughborough is a case in point but there are worse. Political propaganda in the pub is just part of the divided society we've become. Fortunately there are independent pubs again which are doing a better [though not cheaper] job.

[Nearholmer]

Ozex

 

They have 900 pubs and 55 hotels, so it’s nigh-on impossible not to be proximate to one.

 

You’re making me think that it might be ‘marginals’ that are getting beer magazines.

 

K

[jjb1970]

Makes me happy to be teetotal.

[Mike Storey]

That's a new one on me.

I always thought he was an outspoken supporter of company owned & operated premises and made a big song and a dance about it some years ago during one of his other politcal/economic crusades.

 

Mind you he has somersaulted before on "red-line" policies.

Convinced that the Euro was a failure he stated that JDW would never accept payment in Euros.

That changed when he realised Europeans would willingly pay in Euros in London and other touristy hotspots and go elsewhere if they couldn't.

He was dead against a smoking ban and said it would be bad for business, but he changed his mind and was one of the first pub chains to introduce a ban before the actual deadline (sales went up).

 

Keith

 

Yup. Capital expenditure has halved in the past two years (and most of that went on major works to existing sites), but the number of outlets using the Wetherspoon brand has risen by a dozen, I think, whereas Wetherspoon themselves closed more they than they opened. I am not saying the guy is a hypocritical, opportunistic, rich twit, and possibly quite bonkers, but others may choose to do so....

 

I am just not quite sure why anyone would accept the views of a multi-millionaire, living in Devon, who clearly feels he has been ostracised by the Oxbridge set (he went to Nottingham Uni), as reason enough to assume that the Metropolitan elite (I guess he means the multi-millionaires of Brixton, Deptford, Enfield, Southall, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool, Glasgow and Edinburgh) had no idea how things in the "real world" worked. But to be fair, he has not moved his money to Dublin, or applied for French residency, or ensured his children have German nationality, like some other Metropolitan elite members, who just happen to share his views, have done...

 

I rush to say there are examples of the same rich proponents on the other side of the fence, before being accused of bias. It is just another example of the very rich seeming to think they are entitled to help us how to think. I thought we elected people to do that?

 

Before you know it, they will be making justice only available to people who can afford it......

[Nearholmer]

I did read the political bits of the magazine before binning it (the beer bits are, sadly, no longer of relevance, ‘cos I have barely touched alcohol in ten years), and “metropolitan elite” seems to be a synonym for what used to be called “the establishment”, with which/whom Mr Martin (it is Martin isn’t it?) has long been at odds.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Tim Martin is an engaging roguepreneur but Wetherspoons seemed to have headed inexorably downmarket. Pubs once smartly refurbished end up distinctly tatty, smelly & overcrowded.One doesn't take one's wife for lunch there anymore. The Moon & bell' in Loughborough is a case in point but there are worse. Political propaganda in the pub is just part of the divided society we've become. Fortunately there are independent pubs again which are doing a better [though not cheaper] job.

In the past I've always thought that they tended to reflect the locality in which they were located. Although it is some years since I was in these particular ones, Spoons in Stratford on Avon or Leamington were definitely nicer than the one in Basildon. More recent experience has shown that  those in Aylesbury, York and Bracknell seem much the same. Does that say anything about the similarity between those three places or a now more consistent standard of Weatherpersons and its customers profile? 

 

Those I have visited lately have tended to be when we have been out with London Road as we can get inexpensive meals to suit most tastes and leave the heavy drinkers to a cheap evening when the sensible ones leave for an early -ish night. 

[Tony Davis]

LBRJ

 

I don't think anyone here is criticising Wetherspoons for selling cheap beer, or even for advocating their political views in their beer halls,

 

I am criticising Wetherspoons for advocating their (HIS) political views in the beer halls, I don't want to see it.

 

That's not the only reason I no longer go there though. I have experienced poor service, poor food and dirty tables once too often.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Tony Davis

[brianusa]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<I refuse to go into Wetherspoons establishments, they have banned dogs, even from beer gardens>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Out of all the comments so far, this one had the most impact.  Dogs banned in pubs?  The cats will be next!

How many time s have you been in a pub with a dog lying at your feet or a cat in the window sill?  They are a part of pubs almost as much as the beer and now this twerp has banned them?  I'm surprised WS still has any business!

 

Brian.

[phil-b259]

 

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<I refuse to go into Wetherspoons establishments, they have banned dogs, even from beer gardens>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Out of all the comments so far, this one had the most impact.  Dogs banned in pubs?  The cats will be next!

How many time s have you been in a pub with a dog lying at your feet or a cat in the window sill?  They are a part of pubs almost as much as the beer and now this twerp has banned them?  I'm surprised WS still has any business!

 

Brian.

 

 

One thing the H&S brigade look down on is animals in eating establishments (even if they don't go near the kitchens) due to the potential for food contamination and as such most places are forced to exclude them. Having previously had colleagues have cat hairs in their salad boxes prepared by outside caters while on a training course I can see the point.

 

Indeed I believe that several of these 'Cat Cafes' (where you can literally go and stroke the resident cats while having tea + cakes) have received very poor food hygiene ratings as a result - although technically there is no actual law banning animals from cafes so they cannot actually be shut down.

[Nearholmer]

If Ozex is right that this might be leafletting targeted in Brexit-marginal areas, based on the referendum results, I would certainly expect leafletting to occur anywhere in Buckinghamshire, East Herts, East Cambs, St Albans, and across a broad swathe of Surrey, because constituencies in these areas returned very close results. London, Kent, Sussex, Nothants, Oxford and Cambridge, and the rest of the Eastern Counties were more polarised one way or the other. 

 

There were other 'close' areas, but my appetite for reading figures ran out somewhere in the south midlands, working northwards, and I didn't look west of a line Oxford-Southampton.

 

PS: Did you know that Gibraltar was a constituency in the referendum? I didn't. But, it was. Does it return an MP to Westminster, or is this troops stationed abroad exercising their vote?

Edited January 15, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Ozexpatriate]

Having previously had colleagues have cat hairs in their salad boxes prepared by outside caters while on a training course I can see the point.

I'd choose cat hair over rodent poo in my food, but will stipulate that neither is a better option.

 

As I expect Brian knows well, a lot of US establishments (brew pubs, coffee shops etc) welcome pets outside, but not inside, dogs (except bona-fide service animals being forbidden). Some have covered patios and hold pet-friendly events.

[wombatofludham]

Ozex

 

They have 900 pubs and 55 hotels, so it’s nigh-on impossible not to be proximate to one.

 

You’re making me think that it might be ‘marginals’ that are getting beer magazines.

 

K

 

I'm happy to report I live in a postcode where the nearest 'spoons is about 20 miles from me (one in Pwllheli which is actually nearer 40 miles by road, and the Old Railway Station in Aberystwyth, just under 20 miles as the Sh*tehawk flies but 47 miles by road) so haven't been subjected to his bum fodder rants.  There again having been teetotal since 1986, I've only ever been in a 'spoons once, in Aberystwyth, and it was purely for some nosebag after a trip with friends on the VoR long pre Brexit.  It seemed a spectacularly soul-less and dismal experience, quite the worst I've had in any of these identikit chain food-pubs so even if he hadn't gone all ranty Gammon I would have been most unlikely to patronise any of the chain again, simply because it didn't meet my expectations and was frankly very Tom Tit..

 

To be honest given some of the other controversies surrounding his establishments, such as banning dogs and a very nasty local press spat at Pwllheli involving an autistic child, I'm happy to boycott the chain for ever more.  The political guff is just the icing on the boycott bun as far as I'm concerned.

 

There again I was politically active in the past when younger, during the era of organised boycotts, whether tuna, South African businesses or even Stevenson's buses in Rugeley during the Miner's strike (my late father was a striking miner) and whilst it may seem gesture politics to boycott a plc with such a huge presence and turnover, sometimes it's nice to have a freehold on a patch of the moral high ground.

[wombatofludham]

One thing the H&S brigade look down on is animals in eating establishments (even if they don't go near the kitchens) due to the potential for food contamination and as such most places are forced to exclude them. Having previously had colleagues have cat hairs in their salad boxes prepared by outside caters while on a training course I can see the point.

 

Indeed I believe that several of these 'Cat Cafes' (where you can literally go and stroke the resident cats while having tea + cakes) have received very poor food hygiene ratings as a result - although technically there is no actual law banning animals from cafes so they cannot actually be shut down.

 

Well, we have a wonderful bar and grill here in Fairbourne which accepts dogs (and gets rave reviews on Trip Advisor for it) and does fabulous food, and has a full 5 star rating, so either Gwynedd Council have lower standards ( they do not, I know from some of the other rating locally and they are really strict) or some inspectors are over stepping the mark.  The Hygiene Ratings are supposed to be about how the food is stored, prepared, the hygiene in the preparation areas and the record keeping, not about allowing a few well behaved dogs into the bar area during food service.

[APOLLO]

Just back from my friends 66th "do" at Weatherspoons Brocket Arms Wigan

 

Beer 10/10 John Smiths & Guinness, Lovely pints

 

Food 10/10 Tuesday Steak Club - 8oz sirloin and a pint for under a tenner. Nicely grilled also,

 

Ambience - Absolutely hilarious - Brexit vote on TV - Pub in jovial uproar !!!!!! (well Wigan voted 63% leave)

 

We have tabled a few tonight (not motions though) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

[Oldddudders]

One doesn't take one's wife for lunch there anymore.

Oh, I don’t know - Sherry and I have twice lunched in the Wetherspoons in Camborne, and it was full of young mums with their bambini and toddlers. And yesterday in Teignmouth was no worse - except the kitchen was having work done so there was no food! Even a busy night in Epsom, with a zillion youngsters being ID-checked on the door, failed to offend us.

 

I find the places wholesome and effective at an attractive price. Their owner’s political views are irrelevant to my needs.

[phil-b259]

.... or some inspectors are over stepping the mark.  The Hygiene Ratings are supposed to be about how the food is stored, prepared, the hygiene in the preparation areas and the record keeping, not about allowing a few well behaved dogs into the bar area during food service.

 

This could well be true - and of course some organisations (including the RSCPA) are not fans of the idea of Cat cafes for animal welfare reasons too.

 

However its should be noted that most chain restaurant establishments (as well as a lot of independent places like the Cafe / Bar / Restaurant at the Bluebell have a 'no dogs inside' rule* so its not as if Wetherspoons are doing anything different here.

 

 

* with the exception of certified assistance dogs

[Catkins]

What about Neil's point, which expresses neatly what bothered me about it, and I couldn't quite express clearly?

 

"........something begins to seem wrong and I think it centres around the ability of individuals to exert undue and unfair influence because they can bring vastly greater resources to bear than the average man in the street......."

Isn't that what some news outlets are able to do?

And some of those are owned by individuals / family groups.

[melmerby]

Isn't that what some news outlets are able to do?

And some of those are owned by individuals / family groups.

Stop.

You'll get me going on the Daily Wail and it's shifty proprietor.  

 

Kwith

[Nearholmer]

Catkins

 

"...Isn't that what some news outlets are able to do?..."

 

Yes.

 

Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?

 

K

[Rivercider]

I have been using Wetherspoons since the 1990s, the Hamilton Hall in Liverpool Street was the first one I came across.

We have also stayed in 8 of the hotels (Mrs Rivercider has stayed in 9), so I like the brand.

The quality is a bit variable though, we have two in town, one is also a hotel where we go for a drink regularly, and occasionally a meal,

the other pub is definitely a drinking establishment, I go there as the cider range is better, but we no longer visit there for meals.

I have noticed that staffing levels are often sub-optimal in many of the pubs, but generally find them pleasant places.

 

I have noticed the increase in political publicity in our local pubs, but we have not had a mailshot here,

 

cheers

[Catkins]

Catkins

 

"...Isn't that what some news outlets are able to do?..."

 

Yes.

 

Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?

 

K

it's a good thing when you access multiple news outlets, but it's a bad thing if you only ever access one news outlet.

[brianusa]

I'd choose cat hair over rodent poo in my food, but will stipulate that neither is a better option.

 

As I expect Brian knows well, a lot of US establishments (brew pubs, coffee shops etc) welcome pets outside, but not inside, dogs (except bona-fide service animals being forbidden). Some have covered patios and hold pet-friendly events.

 

Indeed, I thought the same thing about US bars; there's precious few anything resembling pubs with dogs and cats present.  I figure I must be from the pre overly protective H & S era when pubs and other establishments didn't mind the presence of domestic animals, in fact a lot welcomed them for the business their owners brought.  Some country pubs had multiple animals due to the fact that most of their customers were farmers and generally customers loved having the animals around.  Nobody was afraid of a few animal hairs in those then.

 

Brian.

[LBRJ]

it's a good thing when you access multiple news outlets, but it's a bad thing if you only ever access one news outlet.

 

 

I used to find a mix of the Grauniad and the Telegraph fave one a half decent over view of reality.

Except the Columnists who seem to be straight out of the local Polytechnic students union in the Guardian.

[DavidB-AU]

[Ozexpatriate]

I think there's a lot going on here. Superficially this is about whether norms are broken by the 'lion in sheep's clothing' aspects of electioneering wrapped in beer-related junk mail.

 

Perhaps if people had overt political pamphlets wrapping their fish and chips there would be a reaction. (And before you wags suggest that they already do, you know what I mean.)

 

At a deeper level is the notion of what constitutes a "news" source. Traditional media outlets armed with the freedom of the press are expected to take their responsibility to print facts seriously. Some do, some do less and some don't, but a real person's name is on the editorial page and we know who owns the masthead.

 

The democratization of information on the internet has changed everything giving credibility to disinformation and reducing the credibility of facts in such a way that the putative "reasonable person" often cannot tell the difference, particularly when what is on their screens comports with their worldview. Once upon a time people who wanted to hear themselves talk went to Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park, now they have blogs which can be indistinct from state-run actors in other countries. Having said that, most of them can't afford bulk mailing.

 

At the very least this mailing was transparent in ownership and not likely to make the slightest bit of difference in public or legislative opinion, other than alienating some people who might otherwise be customers. It's going to end up in the January recycling with all the health club and exercise machine offers (unless the last two are just a US thing).