Formula 1 2019

[Kingzance]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

Not exactly a stunning race, but some great performances, particularly from Bottas, and that Ferrari loss of power in recent races was evident again. 

Let's see what the FIA announce regarding technical and sporting infringements relating to fuel and Ferraris!

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

 

The rise and rise of electric cars may mean that in a few years we will look back on this era with rosy specs, as the sport may change dramatically in the next decade. Who knows?

With the competitive racing in Formula E and advancements in battery/motor/control systems for electric vehicles it must be only time before F1 goes all electric.

Maybe much more powerful motors than Formula E and limits on how many kWh of power each car can carry and consume, with stops to change tyres and batteries?

 

Edit we could get headlines about drivers stopping due to a flat battery rather than a flat tyre

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by melmerby

[Oldddudders]

Ferrari fined 50k euros for under-declaring the fuel load in Leclerc's car, by 4.88 kilos. No penalty to the driver. 

[Bulleidboy100]

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

 

 

The rise and rise of electric cars may mean that in a few years we will look back on this era with rosy specs, as the sport may change dramatically in the next decade. Who knows?

 

 

Heaven forbid! Electric F1 - no doubt the British GP will be sponsored by Scalextric!

[micklner]

Caught cheating and a pitiful amount of a  fine only. The team should have been disqualified . No hold on its Ferrari yet again  !!          

[micklner]

7 minutes ago, Bulleidboy100 said:

 

 

Heaven forbid! Electric F1 - no doubt the British GP will be sponsored by Scalextric!

United Dairies as co sponsor, my days of watching motor racing are rapidly coming towards the end . BTCC is going the Hybrid route in 2 year too. God help us.

[Andrew P]

I seem to have a stuck needle, and it keeps playing the same record, Vettel should call it a day, 3 Kids, down on performance against his new younger team mate, and making some big mistakes, SO;

 

Go now Seb.

[Mike Storey]

5 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Not exactly a stunning race, but some great performances, particularly from Bottas, and that Ferrari loss of power in recent races was evident again. 

 

Bottas certainly did well, but Hamilton was imperious, first place all race, and even managing a fastest lap in the penultimate turn. There were multiple overtakes in the middle and towards the front, with multiple tyre strategies, but not at the front, which is, I guess, what you meant?

[Oldddudders]

1 minute ago, Mike Storey said:

 

Bottas certainly did well, but Hamilton was imperious, first place all race, and even managing a fastest lap in the penultimate turn. There were multiple overtakes in the middle and towards the front, with multiple tyre strategies, but not at the front, which is, I guess, what you meant?

Indeed. Lewis just did it. One pitstop to take on the hard tyre. His fastest lap was on about lap 53, on old hards, while Leclerc, after a second pitstop, was still on new-ish softs. Says it all about Ferrari and their resurrection after the Summer. Something wasn't kosher. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

With the competitive racing in Formula E and advancements in battery/motor/control systems for electric vehicles it must be only time before F1 goes all electric.

Maybe much more powerful motors than Formula E and limits on how many kWh of power each car can carry and consume, with stops to change tyres and batteries?

I don't think we are anywhere needing to limit power in electric cars; the challenge is packing in enough power for endurance, and improving efficiency in making use of that power for delivery of high performance. A weight limit for a design that complies with a set of design criteria for driver safety and the basic car envelope is enough for that, combined with endurance stress (race distance, high acceleration demand) that is a real  'stretch' for the power available.

 

That means leaving the specification much less detailed than at present, to offer plenty of space for experiment in what works best. It is going to take a shift in F1 mindsets to result in something that pushes development of electric, much as when the IC motor and the tech around it was underdeveloped.

 

27 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

... Vettel should call it a day...

Throw in the Vettowel, eh?

 

As for Lewis Hamilton, looks like he's got another fully competitive season in him...

 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Interesting difference in view between the BBB Radio 5 Live and C4 commentary teams about the "failure" of the DRS system early in the race. The former thought the overtaking in the early "no DRS" period was better than the false performance difference it creates, while C4's Ben Edwards welcome the "benefit" it provided when it was re-enabled about one third of the way through the race.

[melmerby]

Vettel seems to have confirmed that he will be still there next year as he has commented that he & the team must do better in 2020

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I don't think we are anywhere needing to limit power in electric cars; the challenge is packing in enough power for endurance, and improving efficiency in making use of that power for delivery of high performance. A weight limit for a design that complies with a set of design criteria for driver safety and the basic car envelope is enough for that, combined with endurance stress (race distance, high acceleration demand) that is a real  'stretch' for the power available.

 

I'm not on about limiting the power of the motors but the actual power in kWh each car can carry, this would lead to the same situation when re-fuelling was allowed where the teams have the choice of driving hard and needing several top-ups (replacement batteries) or driving slower and not wasting so much time in the pits.

Also each car would have an upper limit on total power carried i.e. the total amount of kWh in batteries during the race, in the same vein as limiting fuel to "X" number of litres.

Batteries of course would have to be certified for capacity in the same way the rating of the fuel used in cars today which is used to stop "demon" brews of petrol giving extra performance.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

8 hours ago, melmerby said:

I'm not on about limiting the power of the motors but the actual power in kWh each car can carry, this would lead to the same situation when re-fuelling was allowed where the teams have the choice of driving hard and needing several top-ups (replacement batteries) or driving slower and not wasting so much time in the pits.

Also each car would have an upper limit on total power carried i.e. the total amount of kWh in batteries during the race, in the same vein as limiting fuel to "X" number of litres.

Batteries of course would have to be certified for capacity in the same way the rating of the fuel used in cars today which is used to stop "demon" brews of petrol giving extra performance.

That's current thinking, applicable to a fairly mature technology.

 

Now for the brave new world. Electrical power storage is immature for road vehicles and therefore should be unrestricted in an F1 racing context, other than the boundaries set by vehicle weight, physical envelope of the car, driver safety provisions. We need 'the special hot sauce' in this department, not over-regulation: that gives the design teams the freedom to look for novel solutions. This is supposed to be prototype racing...

[Hobby]

As you all know I am not a fan of pit stops at all, so how about an electric car that is capable of running a full GP on one set of batteries but just to keep some of you happy it can change tyres...

[Hobby]

11 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

As for Lewis Hamilton, looks like he's got another fully competitive season in him...

 

At least... He seemed a lot more settled this season, even during the difficult times when Ferrari's cheating got them up to speed, I'd have said there's more than one season in him for two reasons, firstly he'll want Shue's record and secondly I get the impression he wants to race under the new regulations which don't start until the following season... However he's definitely his own man so he'll do what he wants to do!

[RedgateModels]

47 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

 when Ferrari's cheating got them up to speed

 

alledgedly ...   

[Bill Radford]

Formula e would get a lot more acceptance if it was raced on PROPER race tracks not stunted by numerous artificial chicanes even at Mexico City.

[njee20]

2 hours ago, Hobby said:

As you all know I am not a fan of pit stops at all, so how about an electric car that is capable of running a full GP on one set of batteries but just to keep some of you happy it can change tyres...

That's just Formula E.

[Hobby]

Last time i looked FE races only lasted 45 minutes... Some way to go until they get to the same length as F1...

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, RedgateModels said:

alledgedly ...   

 

Your explanation for their increase in performance mid season followed by a sudden decrease after another team complained and the FIA investigated is? ;) 

 

(I know, my comment was tongue-in-cheek, though there's no smoke without fire... ;) )

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

3 hours ago, Hobby said:

As you all know I am not a fan of pit stops at all, so how about an electric car that is capable of running a full GP on one set of batteries but just to keep some of you happy it can change tyres...

Tyre change is a necessity to allow for weather changes during a race.

 

Quite what the rule set might define for batteries is pregnant with possibilities. It might prove best to allow flexibility. A team can go lighter battery with replacement battery pack(s) at pit stop(s), or heavier battery for full race duration with no 'repower' stops required; and conceivably design a car that can use either, to adapt it to specific tracks or race conditions on the day: e.g, weather conditions variable, likely to have both wet and dry requiring stops for tyre changes, therefore run light battery today.

[didcot]

18 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Ferrari fined 50k euros for under-declaring the fuel load in Leclerc's car, by 4.88 kilos. No penalty to the driver. 

Ferrari International Aid to the rescue again. What's 50K to a team like them.

Edited December 2, 2019 by didcot

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

16 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

Bottas certainly did well, but Hamilton was imperious, first place all race, and even managing a fastest lap in the penultimate turn.

Back in the current F1 world, I feel that this was something of a demonstration from Mercedes, which I had thought might happen once the titles and driver positions were secure.  What Hamilton didn't do in the lead was the 'managed gap' back to second place that we regularly see once he is in front. He just kept extending the lead steadily throughout, and then right at the end popped in a 'qualifying lap' almost a second faster than any competing car achieved on the day. Imperious is the word, both machine and man: there's more yet in this car, and a driver to make fullest use of the potential.

 

I make that a 50:50 result between Bottas and Leclerc. Slightly different events through a race would decide which one got that third place on any particular race day. Had Bottas started from his front row qualifying place would he have held off Verstappen? Another 50:50, Verstappen was looking very hungry yesterday, so clearly wanted to make sure of being third in the driver standings.

 

23 minutes ago, didcot said:

Ferrari International Aid to the rescue again. What's 50K to a team like them.

Special deal for taking on the pantomime villain role. Oh yes they didn't, Oh no they would, They've hided it, He's behind you!; all the well developed resources of commedia dell'arte from Italee...

[Steadfast]

I made a second attempt at watching formula E the other day, and during the commentary I'm sure some of the conversation mentioned that F1 could never go fully electric as legally Formula E has that locked up. Not sure if it's down to copyright, marketing or what as I wasn't fully paying attention as the race wasn't particularly tickling my fancy.

Watching James May on Drivetribe talk about his electric cars was interesting. Both the Tesla and the Toyota Mirai have electric motors powering the wheels, but where the Tesla has a battery, the Mirai is hydrogen fuel cell powered and he believes is the longer term solution once more manufacturers get on board. I have to agree, as buying a 5 year old second hand car and having to spend multiple times the value of the car you just bought replacing the batteries doesn't seem sustainable, either financially or environmentally. It'll be interesting to see if hydrogen electric ever takes off in Motorsport, and whether we'll get ever get electric cars that make better noises than the motor on my kitchen blender...

 

Jo