RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 3, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2019 16 minutes ago, gwrrob said: Get in there Lewis ! He did. And the Ferraris were rubbish. 2 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 No comments on the FIA's latest technical directive, which is widely rumoured to have been aimed squarely at Ferrari? https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/146959/red-bull-gets-fuel-flow-verdict-amid-ferrari-intrigue 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories, but it's interesting that Ferrari lost pace straight after a Technical Directive banning an alleged 'loophole' in the fuel flow monitoring system. As Lewis rather mischievously noted earlier. 3 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 11 hours ago, ejstubbs said: No comments on the FIA's latest technical directive, which is widely rumoured to have been aimed squarely at Ferrari? https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/146959/red-bull-gets-fuel-flow-verdict-amid-ferrari-intrigue Master of double speak... "Ferrari team principal Mattia Binotto reacted to the questions being raised by saying he would welcome the FIA issuing clarifications to make clear his engine is within the rules." The engine probably is, but that wasn't what was being clarified, was it, Mattia!! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 4, 2019 The clarification about not being able to store fuel after the flow sensor is telling. So it was possible to over flow fuel in between the sampling frequency of the sensor to be used when the flow rate was reduced to a legal level during the sampling stage - maintaining a higher than permitted flow rate on average .... 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted November 4, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, RedgateModels said: The clarification about not being able to store fuel after the flow sensor is telling. So it was possible to over flow fuel in between the sampling frequency of the sensor to be used when the flow rate was reduced to a legal level during the sampling stage - maintaining a higher than permitted flow rate on average .... But not as crude as the NASCAR stock cars who cheated on the fuel limits by using fuel lines up to 3" in diameter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 4, 2019 Ferrari were thereabouts in quali - hence the grid positions. I could not believe the start, though, when they were overrun by all - and an enforced reduction in actual fuel-flow would explain it well. Talk of lousy tyres on 16 at the start and suspension issues on 5, that then snapped altogether - why? - are a great smokescreen for "we've been found out!" Yes, late in the race, Leclerc set fastest lap - but he was then on softs, which no other leaders used at all. 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Verstappen nearly made it an exciting race though! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Hilarious. The Pantomime Villain team strike again. I expect a penalty appeal from Red Bull: it makes a big difference to them if they have been kept out of finishing second in the manufacturer's championship by this means. (Doesn't affect the other teams, the Ferrari is otherwise good enough to beat the rest.) But aside the kerfuffle, Albon again plugged away and is now sixth in the standings, so no hope for Gasly getting the seat back if this form continues. And Norris got a real result, hopefully can build on that now. Now with Merc champions and their drivers in 1 and 2, perhaps they can 'just go for it' in the last two races? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 4, 2019 2 hours ago, PhilJ W said: But not as crude as the NASCAR stock cars who cheated on the fuel limits by using fuel lines up to 3" in diameter. Or club bike racers years ago that had fuel lines metres long as their fuel tanks were too small to last the race once they were burning more fuel than stock .... 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 3 hours ago, RedgateModels said: So it was possible to over flow fuel in between the sampling frequency of the sensor to be used when the flow rate was reduced to a legal level during the sampling stage - maintaining a higher than permitted flow rate on average .... I was also wondering whether it would have been possible to make use of periods when the engine doesn't need to draw the maximum fuel flow (e.g. whenever the driver lifts a bit) to draw a legitimate amount of fuel through the sensor and stash what wasn't needed for later. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted November 4, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 4, 2019 That might possibly be what they did. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 5 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: Hilarious. The Pantomime Villain team strike again. I expect a penalty appeal from Red Bull: it makes a big difference to them if they have been kept out of finishing second in the manufacturer's championship by this means. (Doesn't affect the other teams, the Ferrari is otherwise good enough to beat the rest.) Maybe it was a clarification a grey area? If this was the case, Ferrari were technically doing nothing wrong until the clarification was published. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said: Maybe it was a clarification of a grey area? If this was the case, Ferrari were technically doing nothing wrong until the clarification was published. This will be like the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance, so the lawyers will be crawling all over it. If the intent of the rules was clear and a technical dodge to get around a limitation of the metering system has been employed then it is a naughtiness with all that implies. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 4, 2019 But this has been the 'racer's edge' since racing began. Reading the regs and thinking laterally. Colin Chapman was famously good at it, and he isn't often portrayed as a rotter. I do enjoy the fact that the poacher who may have caught Ferrari out, Nikolas Tombazis, was Ferrari's Chief designer from 2006 -2014. He would have a good idea where the bodies might be buried..... 5 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 On 04/11/2019 at 17:54, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: This will be like the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance, so the lawyers will be crawling all over it. If the intent of the rules was clear and a technical dodge to get around a limitation of the metering system has been employed then it is a naughtiness with all that implies. Indeed. The lawyers are unlikely to be crawling all over it, as the Red Team have clearly stopped doing it, with no appeal (that we know of). 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Probably old news, but I see Albon has the nod for the Red Bull seat next year. I wonder how happy Verstappen will be at the end of the 2020 season? Then again, it might convince him of the validity of the 'first make sure you finish the race' approach. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: Probably old news, but I see Albon has the nod for the Red Bull seat next year. I wonder how happy Verstappen will be at the end of the 2020 season? Then again, it might convince him of the validity of the 'first make sure you finish the race' approach. I am not surprised. He has done really well. For each great race, Verstappen seems to have 2 or 3 scruffy ones, during which Albon outscores him by quietly avoiding trouble. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 14, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2019 Alex certainly seems to have the consistency and attack it only remains to be seen if he can add that extra little bit of speed and maintain the first two. Max runs on the ragged edge trying to compensate for the technical advantage of the top two and tips over occasionally which seems to be where Albon has outscored him so far. What’s really impressive is Alex has done it fresh to the car and some tracks! Definitely has the potential for the top of the right machinery is available If they can close the gap on tech then we now have several drivers capable of challenging. If Bottas added Albon’s daring attack to his repertoire then I reckon he’d be pushing Lewis right to the edge too more often. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 43 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said: ...For each great race, Verstappen seems to have 2 or 3 scruffy ones, during which Albon outscores him by quietly avoiding trouble. Quite so. This is typically not discussed, but the F1 scoring system has steadily evolved from first position carrying a large points advantage over second, fewer points scoring positions, and with the provision to discard poor race results; which put a premium on winning races above all else. Present F1 is far more rewarding of reliability, because all results count and the premium for first place is reduced and there are more points scoring positions; so DNF's or finishing out of the points is more costly than in the past. In short, consistently getting home in the points is now the winning strategy. Win 11 out of 21 this season, with 10 DNFs or out of the points finishes from a 'win or bust' strategy, and you could be comfortably beaten by another driver averaging 3rd, who would never need to actually win a race. I know which one of those two I would consider the better racing driver... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 14, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2019 Alex certainly seems to have the consistency and attack it only remains to be seen if he can add that extra little bit of speed and maintain the first two. Max runs on the ragged edge trying to compensate for the technical advantage of the top two and tips over occasionally which seems to be where Albon has outscored him so far. What’s really impressive is Alex has done it fresh to the car and some tracks! Definitely has the potential for the top of the right machinery is available If they can close the gap on tech then we now have several drivers capable of challenging. If Bottas added Albon’s daring attack to his repertoire then I reckon he’d be pushing Lewis right to the edge too more often. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Red cars madness! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Mental finish 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted November 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2019 Very sad for Albon but great for Gasly to get his first podium. Good result and race for Red Bull and Honda as well. It would appear that Vettel does not work and play well with others... Cheers Darius 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Darius43 said: It would appear that Vettel does not work and play well with others... He has 'previous'. 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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