Pete the Elaner Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, njee20 said: I don’t understand why they pitted Leclerc under the safety car. He had tyres that were then only 2 laps newer than Hamilton and Bottas’s, and they conceded track position. Bizarre choice. He’d have easily gone to end on the mediums I’d have thought. It did seem rather like raising a white flag. There may have been some logic behind it though. The Mercs were on soft tyres & Leclerc was on mediums when the safety car was deployed. Maybe Ferrari felt he would be a sitting duck on mediums so would have lost the place anyway, especially after a restart when harder tyres take longer to get working properly again. They probably believed that with the faster car, he would have been able to re-pass Bottas & maybe also Hamilton. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 25 minutes ago, RJS1977 said: Although Mercedes' history is longer, they did have a 40 year break from F1 following the Le Mans crash. It was meant just to point out that racing didn't just start with Ferrari... 13 minutes ago, njee20 said: C4 highlights jumped from lap 44 to 52 (of 53) in a single shot too. The editing has definitely suffered in the last few races. I had no choice but to watch them as we are on hols and no Sky. The "duscussion"after the race was very poor. None of the regulars and it showed. You lot could have done a far better job! (Compliment, guys, not sarcasm!) 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted September 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 30, 2019 35 minutes ago, njee20 said: C4 highlights jumped from lap 44 to 52 (of 53) in a single shot too. The editing has definitely suffered in the last few races. My backdoor access in real time means I can assure you you missed very little. My recollection is that Lewis slowly eased away from Bottas, and Leclerc's attempts to harry Bottas, thus losing Bottas time as he drove defensively, got him nowhere. Despite the relatively common overtakes further down the field, the top 6 cars really are so close in performance - and so well driven - that it takes an error to get by, it seems. Or a better strategy. Amusingly, towards the end Verstappen was advised of a fastest lap opportunity, and told the current target. Hardly had he been given that time, and was no doubt thinking about diving in for new boots to set the record, when Lewis cut nearly a second off it. And then went even faster in the last couple of laps. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 The fact Lewis could turn the wick up so much for the fastest lap with aging tyres shows that Mercedes are not on the limit in the races and are probably preferring reliability over outright pace. Keeping your engine part usage down, ensuring podium finishes will deliver the constructors and Lewis' next crown in a couple of races. Ferrari have found pace in the corners and are faster on the straight, but perhaps they are a little closer to the edge so it pays off if everything works but it's more likely to result in an engine issue or a spin - they have less to lose from this tactic that Mercedes. 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted September 30, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 30, 2019 The same happened with Leclerc too. ”What’s the target?” ”36.3” ”I can do that” *Lewis does a 35.7* 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted September 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, woodenhead said: The fact Lewis could turn the wick up so much for the fastest lap with aging tyres shows that Mercedes are not on the limit in the races and are probably preferring reliability over outright pace. Keeping your engine part usage down, ensuring podium finishes will deliver the constructors and Lewis' next crown in a couple of races. Agreed, in reality all Lewis needs is to maintain his 100 odd point lead over Leclerc In Japan and he's world champion. Even if Charles did win every race after that he could not catch him. It's very unlikely that Bottas could get enough race wins to catch Lewis even if he was out of the points in the final 4 ... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted September 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 30, 2019 I felt that Merc and Lewis' strategy all weekend was not qualifying. Lewis spent most if not all of free practice on the medium tyres getting the car ready for the race. This data allowed the to be confident to carry out Q2 on the mediums, removing any possibility of direct undercut in the race. They clearly decided that Ferrari's qualifying pace and straight line speed meant that pole was pointless as they would just draft by anyway. The fact that LH dropped his car into second on the grid just shows the power of the man's ability to overdrive the car though. 6 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said: Nor was it meant that way. I have seen plenty (on here & elsewhere) state that driving for Ferrari will give drivers a good chance of being world champion. Their history suggests this is not the case. They do appear to pay very good wages though. My “Ferrari bashing” comment wasn’t picking up on your post (which I’d agreed with), just an observation that many of us (myself included!) enjoy a certain amount of “sport” with the red team’s drivers (well one in particular), tacticians, team management, alleged favouritism, etc. Yesterday’s race provided fresh opportunities, but hard to see that team Ferrari did anything wrong. Just that they were skillfully out-manoeuvred by clever strategy, an exceptional drive from Lewis - and a little bit of luck. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted September 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, EddieB said: a little bit of luck. Indeed. Let's not pretend that Ferraris break down often in the present era - although Leclerc lost his first potential victory to just such earlier this season. But when they do, it is invariably embarrassing. I (fondly!) recall Alonso breaking down on the main straight at Monza a few years back, and knowing the apoplectic tifosi would have their say, and Montezemolo would be out. But this MGU(K) is the electrical side of things, and Italian cars and electrics are not always compatible. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 We really didn't need to learn yet again that Vettel's definition of team player is 'I am the team'. Up to Ferrari whether they want to risk making an embittered cynic out of a promising young driver. Threw away Leclerc's good chance of a win, by Vettel not understanding that with two essentially identical cars, the driver behind cannot close without severe risk to tyre longevity, because of the aero effects. 3 hours ago, njee20 said: ...Great result for Merc, but mainly luck, albeit a stellar fastest lap by Lewis. Look at the big picture. A team doesn't dominate for six seasons on luck. That's achieved by non-stop hard graft on the engineering and operational front, with able drivers and pit crews right on the job on the day. In short 'do everything right' to a higher standard than any other team, and when the opportunities come - whether by error from another team or driver, accident and/or safety car, changeable weather - the chances are that more of those opportunities will go your way. And so it proved at Sochi. And as others have observed, Merc are now in a position where the titles are all but won, consistent finishes by their drivers in the top half of the points will get them over the line; and all of car drivers and pit crew are good for that. So little wonder that Toto was grinning at race start. It will still be hard graft as usual within the team, but with a little of the pressure off. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sidecar Racer Posted September 30, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 30, 2019 48 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: Threw away Leclerc's good chance of a win, by Vettel not understanding that with two essentially identical cars, the driver behind cannot close without severe risk to tyre longevity, because of the aero effects. Oh I think he understood that perfectly . 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted September 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 30, 2019 Seb’s got to be ruthless to come back after his problems. He can’t afford to be nice and Charles is learning that from Max and others in previous races. Making a point but not totally throwing the toys out of the pram in Ferrari’s direction shows he’s looking at the long term. Don’t annoy the team when your teammate is and guess who comes out on top when you’re the talented new boy? He’s taking the knocks but playing it just right on the PR. Not just his driving that’s showing prodigious talent early 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted September 30, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: Look at the big picture. A team doesn't dominate for six seasons on luck. That's achieved by non-stop hard graft on the engineering and operational front, with able drivers and pit crews right on the job on the day. Well obviously, but I'm not talking about the season as a whole. They got a 1-2 basically because they'd not pitted (because their strategy was different fair enough) and because of Vettel's DNF leading immediately to a VSC. That's luck. No strategist can have known that would happen. It could easily have gone the other way - VSC earlier in the race giving Ferrari the 'free time' in the pitstops. Actually their strategy calls have been dubious on a number of occasions, sometimes that bites them, sometimes it doesn't. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 49 minutes ago, njee20 said: They got a 1-2 basically because they'd not pitted (because their strategy was different fair enough) and because of Vettel's DNF leading immediately to a VSC. That's luck. No strategist can have known that would happen. It could easily have gone the other way - VSC earlier in the race giving Ferrari the 'free time' in the pitstops. I agree with that. It was exactly the same tactic they used in Singapore, but with less chance of it paying off in Sochi. I think it was a gamble worth taking. If they followed Ferrari's strategy of soft/medium, they would probably have stayed behind, so I can understand them wanting to try something different. In F1, I always wonder whether a failure is bad luck or whether the components are being over-stressed in the search for more performance. Given Ferrari's reliability record, I think this was plain bad luck. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 8 hours ago, Hobby said: Quote Although Mercedes' history is longer, they did have a 40 year break from F1 following the Le Mans crash. It was meant just to point out that racing didn't just start with Ferrari... I thought I heard the commentators say Benz (as we African waBenzi call them) has won every Russian racing car Grand Prix from 1913 & 1914 to the present time ! Even when we watched Froilan Gonzales bulldoze his unsupercharged 4.5 Ferrari through to score Ferrari's first F1 win at the 1951 British Grand Prix at Silverstone, the pundits all said "you just wait till Mercedes Benz return." And mention of Le Mans above, they of course scored a 1-2 with the 300SL beating Jaguar and the Italians the following year in 1952. In effect this was the old team of Neubauer, Lang and Kling back at the core after the war. From mid 1954, the Silver Arrows were back dominating F1, Fangio winning 2 World Championships with the W196. By mid 1955 they had withdrawn from all racing after Levegh's 300SLR exploded amongst the crowd at Le Mans. A little know fact is that a lot of Mercedes Benz post war racing development by Rudolf Uhlenhaut was done from on board a yacht at Gzira Marina in Malta (opposite Kinds - a small Benz Dealership) until about the mid 1960s. It was mentioned in his obituary ... ... I suppose this history of dominance is why so many support the hot headed testa rossa Ferrari marque. dh 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Toro Rosso Name change? https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/27742970/toro-rosso-f1-team-pushing-name-change 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 21 hours ago, runs as required said: I thought I heard the commentators say Benz (as we African waBenzi call them) has won every Russian racing car Grand Prix from 1913 & 1914 to the present time ! I heard them say that too. There have not been very many Russian GPs though, with a huge gap between them which has coincided with Mercedes not racing. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Civilised Viewing times this weekend! Channel 4 F1® ✔ @C4F1 RACE WEEK And some civilised highlights viewing times for your weekend schedules too... Quali, Saturday 1.30pm Race, Sunday 2.25pm#C4F1 #JapaneseGP 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Andrew P said: Civilised Viewing times this weekend! Channel 4 F1® ✔ @C4F1 RACE WEEK And some civilised highlights viewing times for your weekend schedules too... Quali, Saturday 1.30pm Race, Sunday 2.25pm#C4F1 #JapaneseGP 6.10 start. Perfect. I can watch the whole race live before wandering over to GETS for the day. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Super Typhoon threatens the weekend https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/27797104/super-typhoon-threatens-japanese-gp-rugby-world-cup 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Is it to soon to dream for Title No 6 for Lewis? https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/27734853/how-early-lewis-hamilton-wrap-sixth-world-title 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Not forgetting that it would have Title No 7 had McLaren not cocked up and favoured Alonso in 2007. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, Andrew P said: Is it to soon to dream for Title No 6 for Lewis? https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/27734853/how-early-lewis-hamilton-wrap-sixth-world-title I think it unimportant for Lewis to worry about wrapping up the title, just as long as he keeps the gap to the others - barring Bottas. 130 points is the maximum score left on the table, and Lewis is 107 points clear of Leclerc in third place. While Bottas has shown some inspired driving, it is unlikely he will suddenly produce that for all 5 remaining races. Barring a serious accident or unprecedented unreliability, the title is Lewis's, even if Ferrari keep that gun in their holster that they like to use for shooting their toes off............ 4 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MarkC Posted October 9, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Andrew P said: Not forgetting that it would have Title No 7 had McLaren not cocked up and favoured Alonso in 2007. And 8 had it not been for some very strange goings-on in Rosberg's Championship season... 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 minute ago, MarkC said: And 8 had it not been for some very strange goings-on in Rosberg's Championship season... Agh yes the Mechanics swap and more than enough breakdown / bad luck. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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